TLP Community Issues

That's the rub: I don't think they should be cut only because they're sitting at a few wicks above the threshold. I think that's cutting off the nose to spite the face. It's a threshold for a reason.

In any case, raising TLP thresholds is offtopic.

Edited by Synchronicity on Feb 19th 2023 at 12:11:10 PM

Yet another case of people overly bombing a premature draft before the sponsor can even respond to the advice given.

I'm getting concerned over how Eievie is handling Shipper on Deck. Instead of addressing the concerns people are repeatedly bringing up, they're either misinterpreting things or bulldozing ahead on restrictions that nobody else really seems to believe are necessary. I'm getting kind of tired on trying to reason with them and I'd like if other people would pitch in on the discussion.

Eight. Despite being told to stop and having the draft on hold... people just won't leave Run Through Ithycsa alone.

I don't think people are reading the comments. They are just bombing because they see a bad draft. Not sure if we can do anything about as holds don't prevent from bombing. I think I'll just discard the draft tomorrow.

^ and ^^, concur. I even posted a reply asking people to stop Bombing when the count was at 17, and it still got dogpiled some more. I dislike drive-by bombing on general principles (if you're going to take the time to bomb, leave a comment as to why and own it) but I don't think there's anything that can be done. Draft definitely needs to be discarded.

I think the only course of action that's even possible would be for the mods to personally message anyone who drops a bomb after being told to knock it off, but I understand there are reasons they don't want to do so.

I discarded the draft.

P Ming is one course of action but I don't think it's practical. I rather not have to monitor TLP drafts and PM bombers.

I am pretty sure most people just saw that the draft was in a bad state and just drive by bombed. Since this is a a systemic issue, only a TLP tech overhaul will do anything.

I think it's going to be hard to handle this with the current system— it certainly seems like the best design would be to have a "open for comment" mode and an "open for bombs/hats" mode, though I understand this is not up to the mods

The only way I could think of that really does anything about it with our current resources is to set up a mod bot that auto-PMs people who bomb certain drafts after certain times, but that would be way more effort than it's worth.

Edited by badtothebaritone on Mar 8th 2023 at 1:13:04 PM

Maybe a system that flags down excess bombs (i.e. a draft with 10 net bombs gets another bomb from somebody who didn't even comment) and auto-messages the bomber? There are still drafts which end up with excess bombs, inevitably someone will say "That's enough bombs", and at least one person will still bomb the draft. This system would serve as a deterrent for people who do this, and it will give us a way to spot them beyond going through everybody's TLP history one by one and Pm'ing people individually. Hell, between the previous comment on this thread and mine, the same thing has happened again.

Edited by UFOYeah on Mar 12th 2023 at 5:55:33 AM

Another thing on the update wishlist...

I'd prefer the bombs/hats being disabled for 3 days idea that was proposed earlier. Bad drafts that haven't been updated after the time is up can just be discarded so we don't have to deal with people bombing them to death.

Edited by MacronNotes on Mar 12th 2023 at 11:27:48 AM

i would like that too. it would be useful to be able to post a rough draft to get comments on like, the idea, or the description, without getting bombed heavily because it's not finished or it has ZC Es (i tried writing at the top of the page "this is a rough draft, ill finish the example section before launch", but no, still got 5 bombs and also 6 different comments telling me the examples weren't finished, and someone edited my draft to add "ZCE" to each individual example ... sorry, bit off topic lol. it is super obnoxious tho)

Edited by Tremmor19 on Mar 12th 2023 at 11:05:02 AM

Yeah that's one i definitely want. It happens the other way too, drafts getting a bunch of hats before any discussion can be had. That isn't always a problem, but it can make it harder to bring up issues.

I recommend working on the draft in a personal sandbox first so you can put it on TLP when it's got the bare minimum.

edit: you know what, nevermind.

Edited by Tremmor19 on Mar 12th 2023 at 10:57:29 AM

^^ Concur with Mighty. (Sigh) There seem to be a number of tropers who want to throw ROUGH drafts up on the Launch Pad. By rough, I mean no laconic, threadbare descriptions, no examples or improper examples or not enough examples, then they write something like "work in progress, EXAMPLES NEEDED!", etc.

The problem is, if they would just follow the TLP guidelines and make certain they do have a laconic, the description is thorough and covers all the bases, and that they do have at least three solid examples, they wouldn't have to do any of that. I'm sorry, but when I see that I just think the troper doesn't want to put any real effort into their proposal and is trying to get other tropers to expand the description, provide examples, work out the kinks themselves, etc. Bottom line, when it comes to posting drafts on the TLP, the guidelines are straightforward and the OP is expected to do the heavy lifting themselves.

Okay, shutting up and going back to my milk and cookies.

See, I agree that too many "rough" drafts end up on the TLP but I also think people care a little too much about them. Like, stubs are low hanging fruit to the point of already being rotting on the ground, and because theres rarely any valuable criticism to give I have started to ignore them for the most part.

People should follow the TLP guidelines more when starting a new draft, but people should also be willing to put in more effort in other areas, such as by helping out with more complicated drafts or by bombing the problem drafts that may actually launch.

My point is, effort should come from everyone, not just draft makers. I personally don't think stub drafts are even worth acknowledging once they hit 5 bombs, and I think people are letting the much bigger problems skate under the radar.

Edited by WarJay77 on Mar 13th 2023 at 7:02:27 AM

agree. stub drafts never leave the TLP, so their issues never affect the site outside of being a little cluttering of the TLP. drafts that get overly hatted when they have clear issues or don't receive constructive criticism, just examples, do leave the TLP which just sets up issues to be fixed down the road

really want this to be a thing sooner vs later

Edited by amathieu13 on Mar 13th 2023 at 12:43:48 PM

I don't actually care much about unfinished drafts if the sponsor is openly aware that the draft is a stub and they're still working on it. There's a difference between someone who just doesn't know how to make a TLP draft and just throws a single line up on their draft and bails, and someone who just needs a bit more time and community work to make their draft come to life.

Like, if you have a decent description, it shouldn't be too bad that you have two examples and not three — someone in the comments can give that third example. Same if you need description help, but have a lot of examples.

Plus, sometimes you know the thing is a trope, but you just need one or two more examples before you can get the minimum. Trope Finder and Sounding Board can help with that but not always.

On this TLP draft called "An Axe to Grind" (after the defunct trope), I'm concerned that Erik Modi made the draft specifically to protest its disambiguation, since they made a long-winded rant trying to explain why the concept is tropeworthy even though it's just PSOC.

I have a question for the mods related to the post I'm pointing to.

Since Erik Modi has openly stated they're trying to recreate a cut trope in TLP to protest the TRS decision (along with complaining about TRS "repairing tropes into oblivion"), is there a reason we're keeping the draft open? TBH I'm not sure the sponsor has any interest in reworking the trope into a tropeworthy idea, so should we just discard it, or do we want to keep it open?

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Mar 29th 2023 at 9:14:22 AM

As the draft was primarily made to protest An Axe To Grind being cut/disambiguated, I'll just discard and lock. I was going to do that originally but I wasn't sure when the right time would be as discussion was still ongoing. In any case, they can go to trope talk to discuss axe related trope ideas for potential TLP drafts.

on the bright side, the discussion made me clean out post-disambig wicks An Axe To Grind accumulated