Television Is Trying To Kill Us

I see why the concern about that, especially since it was already locked for drawing trolls and such in the past. Maybe the types who messed up the page won't notice and drive-bys won't be statistically significant in tipping votes? If not crowners, and if people are ok with having their votes public, maybe we do it here and someone does manual tallying. (Not it)

I very much like the supermajority idea. If something doesn't get a supermajority, it's clearly divisive and warrants further discussion to settle.

Whatever we end up doing to take votes, probably best to do blocks of X tropes at a time instead of "vote for ALL THE THINGS" at once and being too overwhelmed to distinguish everything before the voting closes.

There's definitely a lot of tropes currently listed that have in common "media narratives are perpetuating stereotypes about actual people and contributing to harms they experience," versus "media depicts this harmful thing in a way that has people doing it IRL with harmful results." The current mixing of these things isn't working out. Some possible solutions I can see:

• Move the "attitudes" tropes to another index (an existing one if something already fits, or create a new one for these)
• Arrange the page to have separate categories with headers for which grouping they fit in and move it out of the Just for Fun namespace
• Redefine the index to include more types and move it out of the Just for Fun namespace
• Heck, maybe we need a crowner/informal thread vote to decide what to do about this mix!

Edited by immichan on Mar 3rd 2020 at 12:08:31 PM

Hmmm, maybe we should weed out objective misuse/shoehorns first and then vote on the others? That way we know that it's all just about opinion and that nothing we keep on the page would go against the purpose of the index.

Like, there's a difference between keeping, say, Hollywood Pudgy because people think the writeup is good, and keeping that unanimously-hated False Rape Accusation example despite that we all agreed it was misuse just because some people voted for it to stay.

If something is clearly misuse, we shouldn't need to put it to a vote.

Of course, voting on what the index is actually for will help.

So this kinda stalled out for a week and a half... We had momentum and then it sputtered out as people had different visions of what the index should include. I think to move forward and get things going again, we need to get a consensus on that.

Absolutely.

GAH YOU'RE FAST

I have the motivation but not the wiki experience/know-how on how to proceed!

Yea, I’ve been waiting on what you guys were gonna decide.

And yea, War Jay tends to reply when you least expect it, lol.

People seem to overestimate just how much of a life I have- way too much of it is spent just refreshing this site, lmao.

Anyway, a crowner might help.

I've only ever voted in them, but I get the inkling you two are a bit more familiar with making them than I am.

I’ve never made a crowner in my whole life. Honestly even though I’ve been on this site for a while I’m still finding out about how to do stuff, since I’m just kind of passive rather than proactive.

How Crowners Work is your friend :)

They're not hard at all, actually.

I'm kinda stuck... There was already a page with the name, I was able to put in a description, but that's it. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/crowner.php/PageAction/TelevisionIsTryingToKillUs

Here, I changed it to "Television Is Trying To Kill Us 2", so now it's a fresh crowner.

Thank you!

• gulp* I think I covered the possibilities...

I've added one more, because I think there's something missing.

Edit: there, it's the traditional "Do Nothing" option. I was gonna add something about not moving it out of JFF, but I guess I can't see why we'd do it that way...

Edited by WarJay77 on Mar 14th 2020 at 3:08:09 PM

How did I forget "do nothing"?! there's always a "do nothing" option!

Hollered!

Edited by immichan on Mar 14th 2020 at 3:10:44 PM

Oh, we could just... not mention namespaces as tangential, but it seems weird to mix fun/serious and leave it in JFF?

That's the thing; I found the "move" part a bit unnecessary, but that's before I tried to think of an extra option and realized "hey, having such a serious index in JFF is a bit weird".

Crowner hooked.

If we were going to move the “attitudes” tropes, where are we going to move it?

Edit: I was going to say put it under an Unfortunate Implications page, but I heard that was taken down in the past. But it might be less problematic now that they require citations for every entry.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Mar 14th 2020 at 5:24:57 AM

That's... hmm. Probably should've thought of that, right?

Looking over Administrivia.Namespace, I really don't know that there is one for the "attitudes" tropes as a separate thing. DarthWiki isn't quite right...

And if we keep "actions" and "attitudes together, well, looking through more of the JustForFun index too but it really looks like a namespace for silliness, not the Mood Whiplash of the "attitudes".

Kind of unclear on RealLife as a namespace, but it seems to talk about tropes in relation to real life?

It definitely shouldn't be under Unfortunate Implications, unless you want to go through the trouble of slapping sources on everything...

IDK, Darth Wiki maybe? We should still keep it outside of the main wiki, but with how serious it'd be...

It's so much easier to figure out where they do not fit than where they do!

Yea, Unfortunate Implications won’t fit, but I don’t think Darth Wiki would fit either because I don’t really think it’s that serious either, it’s just a place to vent your complaints.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Mar 14th 2020 at 4:54:17 PM