Removing complaining in Star Wars subpages

I'm currently reading the novelization, will edit things as needed where people prematurely went "but the novel says...", and then REVEAL MYSELF TO THE JEDI!

The Misaimed Fandom could get a bit of a rework, and it should be pointed out that some EU authors are responsible for these views on Kylo such as the guy writing the recent Rise of Kylo Ren comics, who tried to portray Kylo as a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds, and the EU also portrays Snoke as the meanest SOB possible to Kylo, so maybe a note in the Misaimed Fandom section.

Edited by xie323 on Mar 18th 2020 at 9:59:06 AM

I'm not totally satisfied with my own writing on it and edited it further before going to the live page. Trying to get the jist across succinctly and not as a wall of text. A laconic version would be something like "He's a villain intentionally portrayed with sympathy and tragedy, but misaimed fans think he's the actual hero."

YMMV.The Rise Of Skywalker cleanup done... it's like... it was over 14k words, and now it's about 6.6k.

Lock request was denied for FranchiseOriginalSin.Star Wars. Oh well. Next up on my list is AssPull.Star Wars. We also need to do Voodoo Shark soon.

Sigh. Hopefully all our efforts aren't undone. I guess the mods feel that if things have died down for now, why lock FO, YMMV, whatever just because of the neverending problems that necessitated the cleanup? Maybe they think the project has it under control.

Nobody's rushing to touch ACI When some of us have the willpower, we can talk about... all the things, it needs all of them. Confirming what the trope is. How to write an example of ACI. How not to write ACI. What will the formatting look like. Square one stuff.

Kylo sheet on mostly pause while I await ~Tropers/Wounded Wolfgirl reading and processing the novelization. Some tropes previously removed ended up getting possible support in the novelization and TROKR comics, so need to revisit them to possibly restore now that there's canon confirmation instead of fanon speculation.

I hope everyone's doing well with the real world stuff. Our galaxy far far away is there for our mental distractions when we need it. Take care of yourselves!

~Wounded Wolfgirl

So I'd like to bring up the constant Speculative Troping regarding Ashoka in Season 2 of The Mandalorian, because I frankly would like to hear an actual announcement. Don't be so quick to believe Internet articles.

This has been impacting the main pages.

Happy Ending Override could use cleanup for the on-page SW examples.

Tastes Like Diabetes entries on Star Wars pages could probably use some fixing. It was just called to my attention after I kind of accidentally started an edit war on The Mandalorian's YMMV page that the Tastes Like Diabetes trope only applies to entire works, not individual elements of a work. However, the main YMMV page for the Star Wars series talks mainly about individual elements (such as the Ewoks from Return of the Jedi, the battle droids, etc.), and I'm sure there's probably examples listed on other Star Wars-related pages too. Is there still a way to talk about these characters and how some fans feel like they Tastes Like Diabetes without falling into misuse, or is it all too complainy and thus needs to be removed entirely?

Edited by TheLordYoinkethAway on Mar 23rd 2020 at 3:32:09 AM

Similar to the Ahsoka casting rumor (it's spelled Ahsoka!), yesterday rumors emerged that Michael Biehn has been cast and someone added it to YMMV.The Mandalorian. I don't know site policy for casting rumors, even when the websites they're coming from are usually reliable— none of these have an official announcement supporting them, just "sources confirm" type stuff.

Glad to see all of that coming along!

Edited by EarthboundFan on Apr 3rd 2020 at 12:46:53 PM

I occasionally ponder where to begin with Sandbox.Star Wars ACI, but I don't mind an excuse to put that off! I need to get my head around what Voodoo Shark is before I can help on that.

ACI... There's... too many of them! aaarghh

At a glance, VoodooShark.Star Wars seems legit, if a bit complain-y. Force spirits, Yoda's toes, and midichlorians, at least, look like they belong on the page.

As for the rest:

• Palpatine obfuscating his dark side: Well, he's a reeeeally powerful Sith Lord, and it's meant to show that the Jedi aren't nearly as infallible as they present themselves to be.
• The First Order's fleet: It's been several decades between RotJ and TFA, so I think we can safely conclude that even if the empire's fleet was destroyed, they built new ships. They certainly had the time to do it.
• Starkiller base: Sci-Fi Writers Have No Sense of Scale, like the example says, and Artistic License – Physics covers it, since the explanation offered doesn't really make sense (which the example admits, but someone felt they had to shoehorn it here).
• Rey's powers: Personally, for Rey, I'd go for Inexplicably Awesome for TFA and TLJ, because she's there's no explanation as to why she's so powerful. TRoS explains the origins of her powers. So, shoehorn.
• I'll abstain from the TRoS examples until I see the movie; I've already seen enough spoilers as is *sobs*. fricking theaters removed it too soon, curse the vocal haters, when's it coming out on bluray?!?!
• KOTOR: This needs to be shortened. Basically, it says that in the videogames everyone had cortosis-based weapons, while in the movies set a few millennia later noone has even heard of them. Personally, I'm a fan of the "tongue-in-cheek fan theory is that it's only rare because most of it was used up in the KOTOR era being injected into everything people could get their hands on." Just cut the stuff in-between and it should be good.

I'M GOING IN

... eventually. I mean, part of the overwhelming is because of meeee being extra, collecting all the SW ACI I could find on so. Many. Pages. and dumping them all in one sandbox. The idea was to get them all in the same format and such before sending them back into the wild.

Initial thought is a LOT of stuff is more like Fridge and WMG stuff than actually offering any ACI, or just asking "is this character THIS, or THIS?" But isn't ACI supposed to be an alternative way of viewing the character instead of what the creators/canon presentation says? Ex. "The Jedi are VILLAINS and DESERVED genocide" is not at all what George Lucas intended. And actually describing that alternative, not just asking questions for people to think about. But I can't decide myself about stuff like the stuff I posted

Edited by immichan on Apr 5th 2020 at 11:33:19 AM

Edit: Yeah, bad idea.

Edited by SatoshiBakura on Apr 5th 2020 at 10:58:27 AM

What do hope to accomplish with that plan? Get the Star Wars threads locked if the response is negative?

Generally, I'd advise against it.

...Yeah, that's just baiting them and trying to create drama.

A much better option would be to and inform them about the complaining issue and see how they respond; because if they're hostile to you bringing up an issue with the actual pages on the wiki without otherwise provoking them (like you'd do with your current plan), that's a different story. And if they're not hostile, you might be able to get them to help with the cleanup.

Ok, good point, that plan was stupid. Sorry about that.

I will just tell them about this cleanup and probably express concerns at the thread being too negative, and see what response I get.

Okay, THIS time... I'M GOING IN and I'm Taking You with Me!

• Plan 1: Collect all ACI onto AlternativeCharacterInterpretation.Star Wars — with some kind of organization there (ex. by character or by trilogy/work) — and then one of these two:
  • Plan 1-A: Make it so we only have ACI on AlternativeCharacterInterpretation.Star Wars — relocate the examples from the various pages onto this one, and on the various YMMV pages replace the examples with a link to this franchise-wide page.
  • Plan 1-B: Have each ACI example doubled on both AlternativeCharacterInterpretation.Star Wars and whatever relevant pages for each of their appearances. Currently we're kinda almost like this, but it's not at all consistently since some examples aren't doubled and some are.
• Plan 2: Don't do either version of Plan 1. Cut AlternativeCharacterInterpretation.Star Wars entirely; relocate examples currently there to whatever page is appropriate.
• Plan 3: Neither 1 nor 2. Entries pertaining to one work go on the individual work's page. Entries pertaining to multiple works go on the franchise's page — thanks, Brainulator9!
• Bonus option 1: Pairing with Plan 1-B, 2 or 3, for the trilogy films group/condense each trilogy into one page — so relocate ACI examples from YMMV.A New Hope, YMMV.The Empire Strikes Back, and YMMV.Return Of The Jedi onto a new AlternativeCharacterInterpretation/StarWarsOriginalTrilogy, etc.
• Bonus option 2: Create ACI pages and relocate examples for each work that has [X] number of ACI entries instead of leaving them on their YMMV pages, ex. create AlternativeCharacterInterpretation/RevengeOfTheSith.

• The There's-Too-Many-of-Them Problem: This exists already— what do we do with characters appearing across multiple works? For instance, would someone like Obi-Wan potentially have ACI on the main ACI, and each prequel film page, and The Clone Wars, and Rebels, and each original film? If you're talking about original trilogy Obi-Wan, should those examples include anything in light of The Clone Wars or be restricted to how he appears there? Should franchise-wide interpretations only go on the main ACI? *frustrated screaming*
• The Trilogies Problem: If we did Bonus Option 1, would a trilogy-wide ACI tab appear on each trilogy films' pages? Or is that not possible coding-wise, and the trilogy's ACI page would have to be linked on each of its films' YMMV page?
• The Examples Are Not Recent Problem: Lots of stuff was written about the sequel characters as those were being released, asking questions or predicting the characters' futures.
• The Alternative Characters Problem: Stuff about the dynamics of two or more characters, like Obi-Wan and Anakin or Rey and Kylo, or about groups of characters like the Jedi and the Empire... what to do?
• The This-or-That? Problem: Lots and lots of the examples are just "are they THIS, or THIS?" questions, not describing an interpretation. Treat them as ZCE and comment out, maybe someone comes along and provides context later? Ruthlessly delete them all, every single one of them? (Or a mix of case-by-case comment out some, ruthlessly delete others...) See About Rhetorical Questions.

Edited by immichan on Apr 6th 2020 at 1:40:42 PM

Remove all characters examples, the others I'm not sure.

[Edit:Spelling]

Edited by EarthboundFan on Apr 6th 2020 at 6:38:46 AM

My thoughts:

• Remove or reorganize all examples that are now out of date, involve multiple characters, or are more like Alternate Event Interpretation (the latter may be kept on standby if that idea ever comes to pass).
• Sort examples like this:
  • Entries pertaining to one work go on the individual work's page.
  • Entries pertaining to multiple works go on the franchise's page.

Oh, they all have their pages, too. Every film. Every TV show. 2 of the video games. 5 of the books. 2 of the comics. And then one main one that's a wild mess from all types.

That's 21 pages of ACI for canon Star Wars.

I knew I forgot something organization-wise! I'll add that as Plan 3.

ETA: Whoops, by pages of ACI, I mean YMMV pages which include the ACI trope + AlternativeCharacterInterpretation.Star Wars. The separate works don't have ACI pages currently.

Edited by immichan on Apr 6th 2020 at 1:09:49 PM

And as for Legends? You only mention canon, but the old EU has a lot, too. I'd personally remove any and all from Legends Thrawn, because that hole's been digging itself for almost thirty years now. It all contradicts itself at this point.

I haven't even tried to look at Legends yet. Dealing with canon is headache enough.

I was thinking more about how AlternateCharacterInterpretation.Revenge Of The Sith has yet to be made.