English Localization Cleanup

Yeah, I feel we should make an exception in this case. The Other Wiki uses the original names and I do not want to have to type "Zipper Man" for "Sticky Fingers" nor "The Thankful Death" for "The Grateful Dead".

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I would prefer to use JP names in some cases too, but that's not what our policy says. (And there's a reason for that. This is an English-language wiki; we want English-speaking fans to know who and what we're talking about.)

"Most recent English translation" works perfectly well for 99% of works, with the exception being when it can't be agreed which of two translations is more recent. (See the Dragon Ball disaster from a while ago.)

Here, we appear to have only one English name to begin with (assuming there isn't a manga/anime conflict I'm unaware of), so there isn't even a debate to be had.

This Is a Wiki; users make the rules, and we can decide to make exceptions to the rules, which is why I proposed a crowner.

Keet cleanup

Fan preference doesn't matter, otherwise the policy wouldn't be enforced most of the time because weebs be weebing.

Use the names in the English localization.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

This I feel is beyond mere weeaboo-ism; the original names are already more familiar to English speakers, and that's the way I've seen it written by comicbook.com, Otaku USA, Wikipedia, 99% of fan discourse...

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Exactly: almost no other sites use the Writing Around Trademarks localized names (though of course we would still note them on character pages).

Keet cleanup

I don't think an exception would be made. One exception leads to a slippery slope. There are already several works like Glitter Force which try to bend the rules because "no one uses the English names", but it just makes editing harder; fans who write examples use the Japanese names and non-fans don't know enough to change them.

Hypothetically, we could allow certain exceptions to the policy, as long as the community agrees.

The list of exceptions could be on a locked page, so that it would be impossible to change without consensus.

(EDIT: To clarify, this would be for the JJBA case, not Glitter Force. Merely not liking a translation is not grounds for an exception.)

Edited by bwburke94 on Oct 28th 2019 at 10:32:19 AM

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

What's the difference between not liking the JJBA translation and not liking the Glitter Force translation? They're both fundamentally the same issue.

Isn't the JJBA case also "Merely not liking a translation", which "is not grounds for an exception"?

Pretty much.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

For the sake of actually contributing to the discussion, I actually have no objection to using the original names vs the official English. However, I also don't think we should be disregarding the rules/policies of the wiki just because they're inconvenient.

So my position is use the official name, per policy, until or unless a consensus is reached to do otherwise.

The difference is that unlike Pretty Cure/Glitter Force, the JJBA names were changed due to copyright/trademark concerns, and no other sites besides Crunchyroll use the censored names. Also, the JJBA character pages now use the original names like the rest of the internet; do not change them unless we finalize a decision to do so.

Keet cleanup

Viz's translation of the manga also uses the changed names. I don't know about the dub but that's still two out of three official translations.

Side note: Does it matter what other sites use, barring those that release the series officially like CR and Viz?

Edited by sgamer82 on Oct 29th 2019 at 9:49:38 AM

For me, using the original names for JJBA is not a matter of liking or not liking something; that is subjective and thus has no bearing here.

Of course we'll note the modified names somewhere on the character sheets. It's just that English readers know the original names.

Edited by Brainulator9 on Oct 29th 2019 at 12:54:51 PM

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Do they? That seems a pretty broad assumption to make. If anything, I'd expect the reverse to be true, since knowing the name was altered at all requires a knowledge of either the Japanese version or the music references involved, which a random English speaking reader or viewer won't necessarily have.

The rules about Zero Context Examples are all about never assuming a random reader will just know what you're talking about. While that's not exactly the same thing as what we're discussing here, if we aren't supposed to make such assumptions in one place, why should we in another?

At least while we're discussing this, you're right, but if we don't reach a consensus we'll fall back on the site rules, which say to use English names.

Hmm...

Also got these pictures of the April 2019 Otaku USA magazine, using the original names: https://imgur.com/a/aLDQrQU

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I'd argue a few exceptions don't determine the rule.

Also a magazine literally named Otaku USA is probably biased against any localized names.

I don't know why we're having this argument. An official translation exists and we don't bend the rules just because people prefer the original names. And "but it's JoJo" doesn't make a difference.

Edited by Karxrida on Oct 29th 2019 at 1:53:36 AM

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

That magazine cover uses the English names for other series, and the reason we're arguing for an exception is that the names were only changed for trademark reasons (legally Viz and Crunchyroll would be in the right if they used the original stand names, but they don't want to risk Frivolous Lawsuits).

Personally, I think moving Smile Pretty Cure! to Glitter Force was a bad move too, since the Saban adaptation had substantial plot changes and skipped eight episodes, and it also makes the title inconsistent with the other undubbed Pretty Cure incarnations.

Edited by rjd1922 on Oct 29th 2019 at 4:14:20 AM

Keet cleanup

VisualNovel.Grisaia No Kajitsu apparently needs to be renamed to its English name and given a once over for other changes.

We also probably want to get on JoJo now.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

We still haven't decided if we're going to do anything with JoJo.

Keet cleanup

If the discussion stalls or is inconclusive we still default to enforcing the policy.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

I've created a single-proposition crowner here over whether to keep the original names.

Keet cleanup