The Watch (BBC America's Discworld Adaptation)

Zendervai's explanation works better

True, though I guess my point is, "If something doesn't make sense on the Disc then it's probably not meant to."

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

I'd say the stuff about the non-human races having distinct cultures with different rules and how culture clash is basically always going to happen and how if something they do doesn't make sense to humans, that doesn't override the fact that it makes sense to them isn't really a joke.

Normally, I'd be more amenable to it being a joke, but the prototype for Discworld, the science fiction novel Strata, has that idea as one of the core thesis elements of the book. And it comes back really heavily near the end of the Discworld series with the goblins. Pratchett was aware of the idea the whole time and while it's baked into the portrayal of the dwarves really heavily, it's there to a degree with the trolls and the Feegles too.

Discworld is full of jokes, but when one of the books focuses on a specific character or element or whatever (at least after like, the eighth book, more or less), it stops being a pure joke and becomes more of a comedic view of what feels more like an actual place. Like, Djelibeybi has a lot of jokes about it, including the name, but in Pyramids, the country itself isn't the butt of the joke, the book has this element of tragedy woven throughout it where this tiny country is trapped in tradition and not allowed to advance. And I think that was completely deliberate. Oh, and sometimes, there's no jokes at all. A lot of the stuff about dwarf culture is in Thud, which is one of the most serious out of the whole series. There's jokes still mixed in (Scone of Stone, etc) but the stuff about dwarf culture operating on different lines from human culture, I don't think was a joke.

Not Three Laws compliant.

Terry was a very humanist writer which helps a lot of actually with that.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

If someone walked up to Sir Terry (RIP) and asked, "Is Carrot meant to be applicable to children adopted by races other than their own?"

He'd probably say yes.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

That feels like a proto-description of how the books went from a Parody of Fantasy to Satire of whatever, in a fantastic setting.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

This reminds me of an observation a friend of mine once made on the books, which is that the style may be very funny, but the stories themselves are usually not funny at all. Pratchett's genius lies in making exceedingly entertaining stories about what would be, written by someone else, rather depressing tales taking place in a Crapsack World.

And there is the fact that all of his stories have a vast enough scope of Applicability to be applied to different real world issues and be appreciated by people with different point of view. It take it as proof that Small Gods (among my top 3 favourite Discworld novels) is reportedly liked both by atheists and Christians.

Edited by C105 on Feb 15th 2021 at 10:47:06 AM

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.

Neil Gaiman made the point (several times IIRC) that Sir Terry was not at all some "cuddly old elf" - he had some very serious things to say and was very angry a lot of the time about what he saw as injustice or unfairness. He just chose humour as his medium to deliver it.

In many ways it's really very hard to convey the actual meaning and message of Pratchett in a visual medium. Not only the jokes but a lot of what he said was important because of what he said and how he said it, which doesn't translate to screen at all.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."

It's telling by the way that a lot of Pratchett's main characters are very angry by the stupidity of those around them (Granny Weatherwax and Susan come to mind).

As for translating his message onscreen... Pratchett had a very cinematic style at times, so the stories of the books could be made into a film without too much trouble, and the humour can be, if not kept intact, at least more or less adequately translated. But it requires a lot of finesse in any case.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.

Oh the plots transfer well enough, some of the puns and jokes as well are in dialogue or can be put there. But the didactic stuff often tends to be in the actual narration which is where adaptations struggle.

Good Omens (probably the best/most "faithful STP adap) resorted to just having a narrator for bits of it. Justified in that said Narrator was the most omniscient narrator of all: God.

"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."

I think The Colour of Magic did a better job of being a Discworld story than the originals did.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Wow, I really opened a can of freaking worms here.

I hope they do a season 2. I do so hate cliffhanger endings.

On the whole, I quite liked The Watch. I know it's not exactly Citizen Kane, but it was fun.

You fell victim to one of the classic blunders!

I don't think I can have an unbiased opinion of this series as I keep comparing it to the source material. On the whole this "adaptation" reminds me of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: not bad in itself, but far enough from its source material to become barely bearable for the fans of the original work (though the aforementioned movie was closer to the comic in my opinion).

I could have lived with the many changes they made to the setting (in fact some of them are rather good idea and I could see Ankh-Morpork slowly evolving into a similar Punk Punk aesthetic), but there have been too many changes to the characters in my tastes. And the plot meanders a lot to eventually deliver a retelling of Guards! Guards! with various bits thrown here and there that bring little to the story.

I know Pratchett can be hard to adapt, as we discussed earlier, but at least the ambience of his books could be kept (the adaptations of Hogfather and even Going Postal managed this). The world of The Watch feels empty and full of ridiculous or simply jerkass characters.

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.

For what it's worth, my dad, who's never read the books, loves this show.

That's good. I would probably have enjoyed it more without knowing the source material as well. It was funny at several times, and I still think that the actors for Vimes and Lady Sybil did a great job. After the "alt-Vimes" episode, I really want to see him in more roles. He'd be a good choice for a Doctor.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

I love it myself, but then again I've learned to evaluate most works on their own merits rather than in comparison to some related work. It's why I wasn't that put off by Jared Letto's Joker.

If it should be judged based on its own merits, then why did they need an existing IP? Why did it need to be Discworld instead of its own brand?

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

If it didn't have a well-known name attached, a lot fewer people would have checked it out.

A big part of the issue here is that it was going to be a much more faithful adaptation but due to a series of production company and network changes, it repeatedly got given to different showrunners until it got handed to someone who decided to basically make their own thing with some references in it. It also means that Narrativia's plans to adapt the series accurately have a big crimp in them because a chunk of the books are completely inaccessible to them.

Like, they shouldn't have to feel entirely beholden to Terry Pratchett's episode and series pitches, but I think entirely throwing his contributions out is a bad look.

That kind of makes it worse honestly. It just makes me think of stuff like I, Robot where they took an unrelated concept and just fiddled with the script a tiny bit because they wanted the name recognition. I know TV is pretty cutthroat, but if your series can only achieve success by piggy-backing on a different property while not actually being that close, there might be a reason for that.

Edited by Zendervai on Feb 19th 2021 at 1:29:42 PM

Not Three Laws compliant.

Television executives in any other context would be derided as out of touch with fans, but when it comes to The Watch, the fact that they wouldn't pick it up otherwise is a sign that the show doesn't really deserve to get a green light? Seems kinda sus, as the kids are saying these days.

I read most of the books and I loved The Watch. Although I have some criticisms, to my mind it's an excellent adaptation, even if it fails to follow the original scripts to the letter, whatever Neil Gaiman may have to say about it.

Pratchett at his finest has no equal, but they did a good job at portraying his characters as at least engaging (notwithstanding the ever-annoying Will They or Won't They?).

You fell victim to one of the classic blunders!