The Boys (2019 Amazon series)

Goddamn what an ending & they even got in that the scene that was taken out of season 1.

So presuming some of season 3’s events going by what happened, Soldier Boy will be brought in to replace Stormfront especially since his Captain Patriotic schtick should make up for them bringing a Nazi into the Seven.

Though I wonder how Black Noir is doing.

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 8th 2020 at 9:02:03 AM

I wonder how the TV version of Soldier Boy will turn out. The comics version was a bungling moron (because Ennis) but the TV version could be genuinely idealistic (a la MCU Cap, who works with shield despite disagreeing with certain aspects) or a Corporate stooge or anywhere in-between.

It's really too soon to tell, all things considered. It could even be the original Soldier Boy (since the comics version was a Legacy Character), but I don't think we'll get two "really 100 years old" characters in a row.

Also, I was just thinking the show's Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez Expy was almost too likable...

I should have known better.

Also, something Stormfront said in the episode seemed like foreshadowing for a threat in season 3. Most likely some sort of ethnic bio-weapon. The Boys might even have to team up with Vought (and possibly even Homelander), if someone were to tweak it to target supes.

HandsomeRob: is it Aya Cash?

Edited by caivu on Oct 9th 2020 at 11:13:55 AM

Soldier Boy is a very interesting case, given the show’s lack of a need to be slavishly devoted to the original comic (for the better). Stan’s description of him was as an astounding success “while Oppenheimer flailed with the bomb” a far cry from the Dirty Coward Ennis thought was insulting The Real Heroes (nevermind Cap’s creator fought in WWII and helped discover and liberate one of the first concentration camps revealed to the world, Ennis gonna Ennis). So if it is the original, it’s likely to create a huge gulf between him and the image obsessed Seven while playing around with the biases of someone from the 40’s.

If it’s a successor, it could easily play with the idea of an Inadequate Inheritor, like the 50’s Cap or the US Agent, someone who wants to be that shining symbol but is corrupted by modern ideas and their own inadequacy, a super-jingoist who the original would be ashamed of. Both are interesting routes to take.

Speaking of Soldier Boy, he had the habit of shouting the names of states while in combat, which I think Ryan's little habit was a nod to.

Also, rewatching that final scene from episode 7, it is very clear who's responsible, now that we as an audience know what to look for.

They really gave us this scene in live action[1]

Also if anyone’s curious what Stormfront was saying in her delirium.

“Do you remember that day Frederick? Chloe reached her arm out of the car window. We found the perfect spot at the river, in the shadow of an apple tree, it was the first time Chole ate fresh apples.”

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 9th 2020 at 12:04:03 PM

Was curious about that

So apparently this Soldier Boy will be the original, who has worked for Vought for decades. Kripke talks more about it here.

https://variety.com/2020/tv/features/boys-season-2-finale-eric-kripke-jensen-ackles-homelander-stormfront-showdown-1234780075/

Also, I can't believe I didn't realize the Congresswoman is a sort of slight take on the comic's Vic the Veep.

Though while Vic was an absolutely grotesque parody of George W. Bush, she clearly takes more character beats from Ocasio-Cortez...while also being a radically different character at the same time.

I'm not really up to date on my political discourse, but making the No Celebrities Were Harmed version of a liberal congresswoman a superpowered serial killer seems like a step in not the right direction. Where are they going with this?

...I think the show writers are just trying to explain how that person is a serial killer in real life, obviously.

Or it could be a point about how danger and evil can appear in the most unlikely places.

One of the two.

So that's who's making Your Head Asplode. I didn't not expect that. Also, props to them for taking the Stormfront beating from comics and translating it so well, while still making it better.

Huh so going by that interview Soldier Boy will be sort of a rival to Homelander, in a reversal of their relationship to the comics where the former was more of a submissive stooge to the latter.

"I think anyone expecting Jensen to show up and be a good guy, they will be disappointed. I’ll say that! [Laughs] In the comics he’s mostly just kind of bumbling and subservient to Homelander, I would say. As we’re writing him in this, we’re getting to really talk about the history of Vought because he’s like John Wayne: He’s one of these guys that’s been around for decades of Vought history. And he was Homelander before Homelander, so he’s from a different era, but he’s got the ego and the ambition — it just comes across in a different way because he’s from a different time."

5 bucks he's essentially Ultimate Captain America.

I guess the main difference would be that Soldier Boy didn't "skip" history, presumably not having been frozen.

I do hope they at least give him some handwave for why he haven't seen him yet, though or heard him even mentioned in the present tense. They managed to take care of that pretty well with Lamplighter at least.

You know, I forgot to mention it, but Billy actually helping to save Ryan, and not blaming him for Becca's death is great. He's evolved in a way his comic character never could, and I really appreciate that.

Oh shit I just heard about this new theory. Its that Black Noir could actually be Edgar's son or clone. Huh now that I think about it could be possible.

Also here's a bit more to Stormfront's delirious speech. I didn't get all of it previously.

"It was so beautiful. How the three of us sat there, in the shade of an apple tree. Do you remember the day Frederick? Chloe's arms out of the car window. We found the perfect spot by the river, in the shade of an apple tree. It was the first time Chloe ate fresh apples.... was so happy. It was wonderful. I wanted it to never end."

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 9th 2020 at 5:43:24 AM

@Eagal: I'd say its very much a step in the right direction if that's what they mean by it, but I somehow doubt it. Right wing populism is currently dominating the news cycles (and the body count), but their counterparts on the opposite side of the isle shouldn't be viewed as any less harmful, just further from power and thus less pressing.


Edit: I'm should clarify that I'm not specifically referring to AOC, but the populist left in general.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Oct 10th 2020 at 12:13:55 PM

So I finished the season. I think it maybe wrapped up a little too quickly ( Stormfront is outed as a Nazi, rushes to the tower to deal with what is happening, then rushes back to fight the group and is eventually killed), but the story beats in general are strong enough to carry through. All things considered, the ending is actually a little too happy with a new status quo that is a net positive for most of the heroes.

I enjoyed the first season well enough, the satire is pretty on point, Black Comedy often brilliant and the character complexity is the driving point of the entire story, but I think I wasn't too impressed with the core Myth Arc. It had an episodic approach to where you start forgetting how it is supposed to progress the main story. Looking back, it is more of an introduction to the overall world than actually developing their situation.

This season had some issues, but the satire was even stronger, characters even more complex (a shocking amount of Cry for the Devil and Evil Virtues with Homelander and Stormfront) but a willingness to explore long-term fallout from previous plot points and several psychological Mexican Standoffs made the whole season feel a bit more cohesive.

Huh someone I'm impressed now that I realize it, is they took the comic contingency plan of having another Homelander & actually make it make more sense.

Because Becca is raising Ryan to have a morality it basically ensures that he'll grow up without the possibility of going on a rampage like Homelander can. But also more importantly Becca (bless her heart) is inadvertently raising Ryan to be submissive and passive which makes him easy to manipulate by Vought, making him a better pawn than Homelander. Not only will they have a brand new all powerful superhuman but one they can control down to his very being.

I can actually imagine the marketing stunt. Once Ryan comes of age & gains decent control of his powers, Vought will then reveal him to the public as Homelander's long-lost son. It will be a huge fucking thing, the biggest marketing they've ever done. All the merch, the movie deals, the shows, all taking advantage of the hype of the existence Homelander having a son & a successor. They'll stick them together as a dynamic duo & after some time they'll have Homelander retire or step down his position as leader of The Seven so Ryan can inherit.

The fucking money this could have earned would be astronomical.

One thing that kind of seems a bit odd to me is how easy it was to turn the public against Stormfront when Vought's public biography is implied to have done a great deal of Historical Whitewashing of his character in the public eye, presumably portraying him as a heroic Defector from Decadence rather than a self serving opportunist. Given the existing public perception of Frederick Vought and Stormfront's relation to him, it shouldn't have been too difficult to spin Stormfront's history along the same lines. Perhaps there was something more damning in there like her murders of bystanders whose only crime was the color of their skin, but the media snippets we're shown seemed fixated on pictures of her (and Vought) alongside Nazi officials. OTOH maybe Edgar just ran with the opportunity to dispose of someone with a lot of influence in the company who sees him as subhuman.

So, doesn't Starlight absorb electricity? I figured she'd do better against Stormfront due to that, but it seemed like the latter's attacks were kicking her butt as easily as everyone else until Maeve showed up (and how did she get there? She doesn't fly, so she either ran and jumped and did so fast enough to keep up with Stormfront since she arrived a few minutes after the latter did). Also, Stormfront never tried to use her electricity on Maeve (though to be fair, getting your shit kicked in makes that difficult), so we can't say how Maeve would have tackled it compared to everyone else. Since she's second to Homelander, she might have tanked it better, or maybe she would have crumpled just as easily. Who knows?

Maeve could have just drove there and parked some distance away.

Stormfronts powers in general were definitely nerfed for that fight, she previously wiped out several floors of an apartment complex almost as an afterthought. You can argue Starlight and Kimiko are durable enough to take the lightening bursts, but the unpowered crew were merely thrown back. Given how she could withstand Homelanders eye beams (admittedly probably on low power) it was implied she was at least close to his level, but given she is bulletproof it's a surprise that Becca was able to get a knife in her eye. Starlights powerset hasn't been particularly well developed either, we know shes durable and strong and needs a charge to use her energy powers, but what exactly those powers do seem to be anything from a flash bang to concussive force to actual heat and energy. Superpowers are not video game buttons, but everything from distraction, exhaustion and skill means she may not be able to react fast enough or deal enough damage in a one-on-one fight like that. I give much of it a pass just for how satisfying it was to see an extended supe vs supe fight like that.

As for outing Stormfront's Nazi connections, part of the surprise comes from being 100 years old and presumably having multiple aliases over the years. She's assuming that they can pave over the issue with claims of forgery and deep fakes, but there seemed to be A LOT of evidence verified across multiple news outlets, not just one viral video. Vought's relationship with Stormfront seemed to be on uneasy terms from the start, so much like with The Deep was already prepared to cut ties when public opinion went south. Homelander might have had a better chance against Maeve's video, but the plane crash was in recent memory and the video is pretty damning.

Yeah. I'm willing to admit that it may have been that Kimiko and Starlight might not have quite had enough to take her (maybe keep her busy for a bit but she clearly had them in control as long as she was able to keep them both from getting to her at once). Maeve's arrival tipped the balance: she's strong enough to hurt Stormfront, and probably a better fighter than everyone there, so she can take what the Stormfront dishes out and give it in kind. That and she kept the other pinned down long enough that Starlight and Kimiko were able to recover and then they overwhelmed her, as she was now dealing with three people who strong enough to hurt her.