Fire Emblem Three Houses (Spoiler Thread)

Mist always gets access to swords when she promotes in POR and starts out with swords and staves in RD

I was aware of the knives but really didn't count them dear God Ike's games are balanced terribly.

Fiona and Lyre deserve better, goddamn.

I was unaware Mist could stab people.

Edited by ShirowShirow on Apr 19th 2024 at 3:31:48 PM

Knife sages weren't even very good for letting a sage kill another magic user, which was about their only use case.

On top of there hardly being any enemy mages.

Nobody was fielding Calill for her knife skills. Her big draw is that her strength is high enough to use the strongest tomes without being weighed down, whereas Soren's gonna be stuck with basic Wind for the entire game.

-Googles Calil-

Yeah she looks like she could bend that twink over her knee.

Hmmm, yeah, I guess knife Sages could technically count under the "tome and physical weapon" definition. Just in the most horrendous way possible. Granted, all the default Awakening (Dark) Mages are going to be about as effective trying to use non-Levin swords as Tellius Knife Sages, so...

I wouldn't really count sword and staff as a Magic Knight archetype. That's more like a D&D Cleric, but with swords instead of maces.

Agreed. Those are more like offensive units that happen to have support options (which is the intended role of Byleth's unique class) rather than a proper Magic Knight.

EDIT: I don't wanna make a new post for this but... uh... this happened a few days ago in Baldur's Gate 3 subreddit. I guess making that "3 years of 3 Houses discourse" meme really paid off huh.

Edited by Blackress on Apr 19th 2024 at 4:50:40 AM

Ahhh, discourse. Is there really any other way to go? And has it already been three years?

We're approaching a 5th Anniversary in July.

Oh my. I remember seeing the first looks of this game on the news app on my switch during quarantine. Course, I didn’t buy until two years ago, but still.

@asterism What are you talking about?

@Mister Tambourine Man Man, it hurts to see how many people mischatacterize Claude. Claude didn’t believe believe in Gods growing up but he becomes a believer before you even hit the timeskip.

It’s one of the most undercooked aspects of development on his character. Claude hates the idea of being dependent on someone including otherworldly beings because it’s been drilled into to be independent from a n early age. Character development changes him on that front.

Edited by MadSkillz on Apr 20th 2024 at 2:45:19 AM

Yeah I've seen a lot of unprovoked Claude slander on this thread but I can only play defense force for so many lords.

He's exactly as great as the memes make him out to be TBH.

I think that Claude’s depiction in the original game didn’t do him any favours when Hopes came around and contrarily, showing his worse characteristics being highlighted; even outside of VW being still a contested route as a whole (whether you like the Deer’s lack of connection to the more personal stakes of the plot or not tends to do it for most), his presence in the other paths is always shown in a rather sympathetic light… Thus, the fact his offscreen development doesn’t seem to contradict itself whether or not he’s got Byleth, which gives the impression that they aren’t influencing him as much as Edie/Dimi/Rhea (let alone being a Morality Pet to him)… Then along came Golden Wildfire, and what seemed to be a contradiction of his character jarred us, leading to a lot of backlash that’s exaggerated his flaws as people try to make sense of his character, all while missing the point (TBF, I don’t blame them and still consider his Hopes route to be the overall weakest).

On a brighter note, while I reckon I’m never going to love the manner in which this story handled its ideas of conflict and perspective and how they played out (well, that and my gripes with it structurally, that I’ve micro-analysed on this forum and in other conversations), I think I’m getting to a point of peace with it all. In Claude’s case, the fact his main route awkwardly reused SS assets, would not let Judith or Nader be playable, and didn’t potentially set up Rhea as the Final Boss in a different way to Edelgard’s… it’s probably not ideal, but it’s fine.

So… yes; WC didn’t give sufficient diversion or even a way to not force replays as a result, and that’s OK. Meanwhile, SS wasted its opportunity to use Rhea and set up Nemesis (and/or have Edelgard pull an Enemy Mine to kill Thales before resuming hostilities)… Whereas CF was especially too short, [Running Gag didn’t let Fleche be playable]], used Rhea’s established Fatal Flaw as a cheat to not have Edie’s Fantastic Racism / Naytheist views be challenged, and copped out on how its Central Theme clashed with Functional Magic; its sister route, Scarlet Blaze tried harder but had similar issues… And AM was mostly solid, but it’s personal aspects neglected a lot of its characters, the smaller significance of stuff like Duscur, and the bigger plot elements; Azure Gleam fixed some of them, but was a Writer Copout in how the conflict ended up concluding, and still executed the idea of deliberately unresolved mysteries shoddily… All of them have strengths and all erred, and that’s OK.

There’s still discourse and there’s frustration I’m working through (don’t let me rant on the Unfortunate Implications of the Death Knight as DID representation, let alone trying to psychoanalyse how Emile’s effectively breaking the sacred East Asian values of Filial Piety are tied to it in contrast to Bernadetta being more heroic and not fully hating her own Hate Sink Glorified Sperm Donor…), but that’s OK, really. And sometimes? Well… it’s kind of fun to work through, IIBH!

Edited by CaellachTigerEye on Apr 21st 2024 at 6:04:55 PM

Verdant Wind Claude: Fodlan would be better off if Rhea were dead!

Golden Wildfire Claude: Let's kill Rhea!

Claude fans:

You wanted the truth? You couldn't handle the truth! No truth handler you! He derided your truth-handling abilities!

@Caellach Tiger Eye: Did Three Hopes truly do Claude no favors when it comes to his Houses portrayal though? Having that game explore his most negative traits does help showcase why his time in Garreg Mach (and potentially with Byleth) is far more important than people give him credit though.

That, and many of his lines in Three Houses just do not come off in the same light as they did years ago with the context Hopes showed, and it's not just the line @Tambourine brings about Rhea:

"My dream, in truth, is a selfless dream. But I require power to make it a reality. When I learned about the power of my Crest, I knew I had a chance. So I'm chasing that dream. To the bitter end, if need be. So, what do you think? If you promise to help me achieve my dream no matter what, I'll promise to tell you anything. - Claude when talking to Edelgard in Chapter 5."

Claude: Here she is—Her Majesty—looking pleased as a dog with a stick. What exactly happened to make you this way?

Edelgard: I'm simply seeing through a promise I made to myself a long time ago.

Claude: Isn't this much force excessive? Thanks to you, my own long-held ambitions are nearly destroyed.

Edelgard: If you don't want them to be destroyed completely, I suggest you turn tail and flee. - Claude vs Edelgard in Chapter 12

"You [Dimitri] and I are cut from different cloth. I wouldn't make a move unless I could gain something from it. You've always been just the opposite. - Chapter 19 of Azure Moon"

"In all honesty, I was hoping to become a supreme ruler and lead Fódlan to peace myself. But... that won't be happening now." - Chapter 14 of Crimson Flower

And if you really wanna have Rhea accounted for, Three Hopes also - for better or for worse - deconstructed hard the idea of Claude and Dimitri teaming down vs the Empire, to the point the idea took a noticeable hit in the fandom given how different Claude and Dimitri's priorities are.

There's also the fact both Verdant Wind and Silver Snow have clear identity issues stemming from how certain decisions and story beats ultimately work better in one route than the other, so things aren't as simple as they seem (no wonder helped by the Death of the Author principle).

Death of the Author only really works when the author is, well, literally dead. Because so long as they live their impact on their work and how it should be perceived will always carry weight and/or be a chain around its neck that will choke it to death rather than let it go.

Harry Potter became an infamous example of this thanks to JK Rowling and will remain as such for years to come, or how you can ignore and remove all the racist writing of Lovecraft cause he’s been five feet under for over a century and thus Lovecrafian Horror could thrive without it.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Apr 21st 2024 at 12:01:31 PM

I didn't think Claude trying to become the supreme ruler of Fodlan is meant to be a bad thing. That's basically what Edelgard does on Crimson Flower.

@Omega:

...Which only works for viewers/readers as long there's something in the material itself that backs up the author's words.

With Three Houses itself, the best example of this phenomenon is by far both: 1. What exactly is meant to be the Fire Emblem; and 2. Which of the 2 Black Eagle branches is the actual Empire route. As while both Kusakihara and IS are still around (as of this post), their statements on both had no impact whatsoever on the fanbase.

Edit: Overall it really isn't , more so since every route ends with Fódlam becoming unified anyways.

Edited by Blackress on Apr 21st 2024 at 12:32:33 PM

That is something plenty of people are critical about, and those who are more gung-ho about actually wanting it more as a result, compared to the others who have it forced upon it because the plot, by the writers, and therefore the AUTHOR, says “Unification GOOD”.

Which is why you can’t ignore the things they also tend to push a lot in the story itself when concerning things like Death of the Author. With Three Hopes itself further pushing that narrative with early bad ends because no unification.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Apr 21st 2024 at 12:45:23 PM

The devs pushing the narrative of "Unification good" applies only to Three Houses I feel, and that's in spite of the idea making the least sense in Azure Moon 'cause Dimitri never shows such ambitions yet gets all of Fódlan anyway just for consistency's sake.

With Three Hopes, I think there's more room to argue against this notion. The interviews and the stories' priorities highlight that tying up 3H's loose ends was more important than actually ending up the war (and by proxy, unifying Fódlan), which in execution has some sweet synergy with the whole "we must not invalidate Byleth" thing they went with. That, and while both Scarlet Blaze and Golden Wildfire's good endings entertain the idea of having Fódlan become whole later (up to everyone to decide if that gets to happen though), in Azure Gleam that's just simply not happening anytime soon, more so if you recruit Byleth in them.

EDIT: I suppose that if you go with that argument, Azure Gleam would be the only Three Hopes route that could be considered a flat out Bad Ending. Huh...

Edited by Blackress on Apr 21st 2024 at 2:53:30 AM

Well, that would fit with Azure Gleam being the only route in Hopes where Rhea is still alive.

Death of the Author is a concept that almost nobody actually understands.

What it means is that, in arguing some fact or interpretation of a piece of art, you base your argument solely on the contents of tge text and not on what the artist might declare.

Hopes routes are more of a Be Careful What You Wish For case (towards the fandom), except Scarlet Blaze which is straight up an official Fix Fic.

In retrospect, I think the whole "we didn't want to invalidate Byleth" argument isn't even that important; what Hopes really does is allow the story to end at a point where all three Lords are still around, something that was outright impossible in Houses where the "base" route (Silver Snow) even was the complete opposite of that.

Scarlet Blaze is also "be careful what you wish for" because we have to put up with Monica.