And I Must Scream

The description talks about it's a more horrible variant of Fate Worse than Death where death isn't even an option. You're suffering, and most likely unable to interact in some way, for a really long time, if not eternity.

Some examples and wicks I found, however, describes someone being "aware, but helpless while something's happening with their body" (like being body-controlled, or transformed into a monster, etc).

So what is And I Must Scream, really?

If in those examples suicide is still an option and/or death isn't significantly postponed, then they are simply incorrect and should be moved to Fate Worse than Death instead, if they fit there that is.

Being locked in for the rest of your life sounds like extended suffering to me. But I would have to see the example before making a call.

And I Must Scream is a subtrope of Fate Worse than Death, talking specifically about experiencing pain but with an inability to react to it. Fate Worse than Death is about prolonged suffering, such that you would consider death to be more merciful.

I've struggled with determining whether this is The Same, but More Specific or a Ridiculously Similar Trope as opposed to a legitimate sub-trope.

There are examples of And I Must Scream that are temporary, as it is evoking an idea that, if permanent, would be one possible Fate Worse than Death.

That does make sense. Space Chimps has a temporary example of And I Must Scream.

Mini-wick check

• Body Horror: Some Quirks alter their user in truly bizarre and disturbing ways, though thanks to how ubiquitous Quirks are, this isn't usually a problem for them. This leads to cases of Unusually Uninteresting Sight fairly often. For example, Seiji Shishikura has the Meatball Quirk, first seen in Chapter 106. This allows him to control raw human flesh, including his own. His main combat style is to detach his limbs into flying globs of flesh, and the moment they touch his enemy, he's free to warp and compress their body until they're a sentient globe of misshapen flesh. Fortunately, dealing enough damage to Seiji would break the Meat Prison.

Videogame.Spyro The Dragon 1998

• And I Must Scream: In the first game the dragons are frozen in stone but are still conscious and aware. Since some of the dragons' locations are pretty well-hidden, if Spyro is put in the hands of a player with less perseverance... well, try not to think about it too much. It's even Played for Laughs sometimes.

Characters.Warcraft Player Characters

• Named Weapons: The artifact weapons in Legion:
  • The Maw of the Damned, a two-handed axe for Blood death knights, a soul-leeching weapon adorned with the conscious skull of the crazed demon who crafted it.

AvengersEarthsMightiestHeroes.Tropes A To E

• And I Must Scream: Ultron co-ops Tony's armor, making him fight the Avengers WITH HIM STILL IN THE ARMOR. He gets only a few brief moments where his com systems work to try and warn Thor that something has control of his armor.
  • Also, the Realm of Silence Loki is exiled to in “My Brother, My Enemy”, but then again Loki is such a Magnificent Bastard that it doesn't really faze him.
    • Which then carries over to Loki's fate after his big plan fails at the season one finale. True to Norse mythology, he is trussed up and left in the care of a giant serpent which constantly DRIPS VENOM INTO HIS EYES. Yikes.
    • Nasty enough by itself, but remember - Loki's immortal. His eyes won't eventually lose their capacity to feel pain: nor can he escape by thirst, starvation or old age. He's there until Odin forgives him or until the world ends... and Odin isn't a particularly forgiving god.
  • Amora used Chemistro's gun to turn his armor to gold. He remains conscious for what is implied to be several hours before Tony and Janet find him and call for help.

WesternAnimation.Sonic Satam

• And I Must Scream: Roboticized victims remain fully aware of everything they do while under Robotnik's control. As Uncle Chuck states when restored: "we just can't do anything about it."

This is merely to show what kind of misuse we have, not to check how widespread it is.

I'm personally in favor of redefining the two to clarify that the two tropes are not duplicates or TSBMS.

Between what? This and Fate Worse than Death?

I do think that the Sonic SATAM example can might qualify depending on how long it lasts. Being briefly controlled isn't an example, but being forced to spend an extended length of time helplessly watching as your body is used to attack those you loved should count.

I agree that the others are not examples since they don't last long enough.

Correct.

"but being forced to spend an extended length of time helplessly watching as your body is used to attack those you loved should count."

I thought the trope only counts cases of incarceration/sealing in a can and the like?

The "aware, but helpless" part sounds like a trope of its own, by the way, just that it doesn't fit AIMS.

No, the entire trope is about being aware, helpless, unable to react or find relief. It is not the trope if:

• They are not aware (when released they react like they woke up from a nap).
• They have some control over their situation (they can fight back through sheer force of will).
• They find some way to alleviate the pain (in the sense that the pain itself is temporary).

And I Must Scream is a fate with no relief in the foreseeable future. So an example with "extended time" is a dubious one because it would imply a defined end to the peril.

Edited by eroock on Mar 8th 2019 at 11:46:39 AM

The entire third paragraph of the description talks about how it's possible for it to end at some point in the future.

Edited by Primis on Mar 8th 2019 at 11:52:27 AM

Yes, and the emphasis is on foreseeable. A ten-year punishment is not an example, while an eternal punishment that ended after only five years is an example. It isn't about the actual duration but about the expectation that no matter what happens, you're cursed to remain that way forever.

So the "just aware but helpless" part isn't this trope, right? That's what I want to ask from the start...

Alternate Identity Amnesia even says that "Contrast And I Must Scream, when the lycanthrope is aware of what's going on but helpless to stop their wolf-self."

That's definitely not what And I Must Scream is, yet it's what many pages think it is.

The component "aware, but helpless" is required for And I Must Scream, but not sufficient on its own. I think you could build a valid Missing Supertrope Syndrome argument, where "aware, but helpless" is the only component, with And I Must Scream as a Sub-Trope when the condition is expected to be unending.

Sounds like a good idea, actually.