RWBY Spoilers Thread

Thread Hop.

The oft-stated problem with Cinder is that we don't know enough about her to make any of her post-Volume 4 scenes interesting. Was she always the spiteful revenge queen? Did she always have flaming swords or was that just her Maiden-given ability? What even is her Semblance?

Her hatred of Ruby dominates her character. Even her understanding of the series' cosmology, of Ozpin and Salem's roles in the greater conflict is left vague.

A Trapped In A Bottle episode with Ruby could work to alleviate all of that, but Cinder's defining trait so far has been "queen b-tch." She probably would kill Ruby on the spot. The plot can do what it wants but it'd be kind of out of character for her not to act rashly.

...I have nothing of value to add here except

• I think it's clear that they're teasing the relationship but trying to play it safe (gauging the audience response maybe). They can say the hints were dropped but it's not official.
• I don't think they need to be troped right now.
• I don't care if they're bisexual or gay. I think everyone needs to step back from trying to assert one over the other.

...I ship it.

• Okay people went a little far here. Catching Qrow, having a "compatible Semblance," and the wink are all signs of what I think are "safe plays" but I don't think it's enough to trope about.
• A good luck Semblance and a bad luck Semblance walk into a bar...

An episode to show off new weapons, equipment, outfits, and the Ace Ops... Aesop's Fables. Cute. Also, a Geist fight. Remember how much it took for RNJR to take one of those things down?

Thunder thighs. Rooster Teeth knows their audience too well. Nora has no business there though. Her thigh game is weak next to Elm and Harriet's. And while we're being pervy I'll add that Blake's breasts seem larger in the new clothes.

So is Tyrian's Semblance going to involve drinking people? Why did his eyes change color?

Interesting how the Aesops' aren't friends. I feel like that means something - like, aesop's fables work together but aren't officially friends or something.

We're getting a pretty firm lack of Penny and Ruby interaction though I love Ruby actually reversing the usual gag, shaking Penny this time around.

Also, Jacques appears and we know where he stands with Weiss and Ironwood now. Interesting that he and Watts know each other but Jacques doesn't appear to be afraid of him exactly. I'm curious how this relationship will pan out.

Edited by Soble on Nov 24th 2019 at 5:27:27 AM

So yeah, episode four. Ironwood issues our heroes their licenses. Jaques is now unwitting working for Salem, Summer Rose's mysterious fate is brought up for the first time in like 5 seasons. That last part is the most interest to me. Qrow says that Ozpin didn't seem to know, and if he was hiding something about Summer's fate from Ruby and Qrow you'd think that would have been mentioned by Jinn.


On the other hand, Jinn's answer probably wasn't exhaustive; it stayed focused on the things he REALLY, REALLY didn't want them to know, and which clearly was a big shock to all of those involved, including Maria, and the phrasing of Ruby's question was inclusive.


"I sent Summer Rose on a secret mission that she didn't come back from" probably" wouldn't mean that much to anyone in the group aside from Qrow, Yang, and Ruby.


But that said, the idea that even Ozpin didn't know what Summer was up to was interesting, because there's no reason for that to be the case within the context of what we already know. The other big question that lacks a good answer from our current vantage point is why Salem wants Ruby alive when the show specifically drew attention to Salem's agents having routinely hunted down and killed the silver eyed warriors in the past both in the initial debut of her cabal and in the episode focused on Maria's backstory.


To me that says there's either something more/different about Ruby (and probably by extension Summer) compared to Maria, or Salem's since learned something about the silver eyed warriors that makes her want to (presumably) recruit one of them. I'm fairly confident that's going to tie into the circumstances of Summer's death either way.

Jaques is a bit spooked by someone he thought was supposed to be dead showing up. I don't think he knows anything about the Salem stuff; he just has a ghost from his past showing up and offering to help him out in his electoral campaign. Looks like Wyldchyld was dead on about Salem's faction playing both sides. The fact that both of the candidates for the council seat are running on a "fuck Ironwood" platform goes to show that he's headed for a 0% Approval Rating.


So far Ironwood continues to be upstanding and very helpful to our protagonists. Ruby is guilty about keeping stuff from him, and I'm betting sooner or later she's going to share the real truth, only for that to be the tap that starts Ironwood down The Slippery Slope, culminating I would hope in him pulling a vicious case of Cutting the Knot in the face of Salem's plot (the aforementioned "Massacre the people protesting you since dead people don't feel negative emotions") that more or less kills any possibility of the world coming together behind him as he'd hoped, leading him (and Atlas) inexorably towards a "unity by force" path.


As for the Cinder stuff, the way she's been characterized right now I don't really see her going in the direction of Zuko, she's got the eye scar but in all other respects she's Azula. More likely than not she's eventually going to do something that really draws Salem's ire, and will at that point either be killed like a punk or humiliated and stripped of her powers. In the latter case, I'd expect Salem to join the growing list of people Cinder has a grudge against, and for Cinder to start plotting against her (possibly former) master, and ultimately end up being the instigator (witting or [1]) of a Happy Ending Override that propels the story into a final arc after Salem has been Dealt With by Ruby.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Nov 24th 2019 at 2:25:18 PM

From the looks of things Watts is going to Hack the Election....

That joke is so easy I'm not gonna risk getting Hollered to make it.

I'm not really a fan of Jacques being Not Donald Trump. Too easy, and I liked the idea of him being an ally to the protagonists who is also unambiguously a horrible, horrible person, forcing them to confront moral complexity in a way they haven't had to before.


I wonder what they'll do with Whitley however; I could see him going in the direction of a Heel–Face Turn, and potentially taking over SDC with a mind for reforming the company when Jaques is inevitably killed or thrown in jail. The show does like to subvert first impressions of characters, and while that's probably not in the card for Jacques given he's such a Hate Sink at this point, the initial impression of Whitley as being Overlord Jr. might end up being turned on its head as we learn that he's just as much under his father's thumb as Weiss and Winter, but never had the courage to stand up to him like they did, and has instead developed the sort of Stockholm Syndrome that often characterize abusive relationships, convincing himself that they're the problem, not their father.

Edited by CaptainCapsase on Nov 24th 2019 at 12:17:42 PM

His eyes change to purple whenever he's about to use his poison (which is purple).

I don't think we've discussed his Semblance much on this forum. I have to admit that I hadn't really thought much about what it might be. I'm just aware of the fact I don't know what it is right now.

Nah, Jinn was being specific to the intent of Ruby's question. It's pretty clear just from the story that she did tell that this isn't the whole story. It's not even the whole of Ozpin's back story and definitely not the whole of Salem's.

There's still a lot about Ozpin and Salem that we don't know.

I also noticed that, during the Volume 5 DVD commentary, the creators (who were already writing Volume 6 by then) were saying there's a lot we don't know about Team STRQ — there are still secrets about that team that need to be told.

And that sounded like it included Qrow and Raven, not just that we don't know much about Summer or Taiyang.

I'd say that this reference to Summer is the start of that process but I honestly believe the fact that Taiyang appears to be staying behind in Vale is part of a secret as well. Ozpin had a role for him, too, and he's still carrying it out — it's just not what we think.

So, yes: Ozpin, Salem, Team STRQ. We've got more to learn about them all.

"I'm not sure if I can trust Ironwood."

"Hey, Ruby, here's the licenses, Penny, upgrades, relic, and a surefire way to beat Salem! I trust you deeply enough to do all this for you."

"He's very untrustworthy."

Like, really Ruby?

To be fair, that's clearly Ironwood trying very hard to be trusted, which can be suspicious in itself. Most of what he has done is pretty trivial and he clearly wants their help.

I expect to find he's been lying to them in some way - such as having planted bugs on Qrow (especially after Ruby and Ozpin just talked about what exactly they were hiding) OR having already used the last wish in the relic without telling them.

That said, I mentioned before that what Ruby is doing is arguably WORSE than Ozpin and this episode kind of shoots down the idea of it being intended that way.

At the moment, it just comes across as bribery to me. Ironwood lavishes them with promotions then makes it clear that he's doing it to surround himself with people he can trust. He's actually buying their loyalty — or trying to.

The problem with the word 'bribery' or the phrase 'buying loyalty' is that people automatically think of something underhand done by people of ill-intent. However, this can happen without people really recognising what they're doing or being fully aware of the consequences and perceptions of their actions. As it is, Ironwood's very conscious of the quid pro quo going on here because he mentions it. The problem is that he's doing his best, is clearly feeling isolated and alone, and he does have a good heart; that effectively blinds him to the reality of his actions.

Unfortunately, just because he might not be consciously bribing them or buying their loyalty, it doesn't change the fact that this is effectively what he's doing.

I do think this is deliberate. Ever since they arrived at the academy, Ironwood's pretty much been doing everything they wanted Ozpin to do: he's expressing faith in them, he gives them the Relic because he trust them to look after it, he says he doesn't want them to think he's hiding anything from them, and so. The comparison between his behaviour and how they fell out with Ozpin is so in-your-face that I'm sure it's deliberate — indeed, Ruby and Oscar's reaction to Ironwood giving Ruby the Relic indicates the parallel is deliberate.

The reason I think it's deliberate is because I think the kids will learn that the leader doing what they want or yearn for doesn't make his actions good or right, or the best decision to make — and the leader doing want they didn't want and came to despise doesn't make Ozpin's actions bad or wrong, or the worst decision to make.

They're still reeling from their falling out with Ozpin and here's Ironwood symbolising everything they were wishing Ozpin would be. That's going to be very seductive for a while but they're eventually going to realise that Ironwood's offering them fool's gold and that Ozpin isn't the lump of coal they thought he was: he is still a diamond, he's just one with flawed edges instead of perfect facets — exactly like the rest of them.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Nov 25th 2019 at 2:23:30 PM

Yeah hiding the fact that the relic still has uses is pretty reasonable since you don't want Fascism Man stealing your last question, but keeping the fact that Salem can't be killed secret is just stupid when Ironwood is going to enact a dangerous plan that revolves around Salem being killable.

Edited by Moth13 on Nov 25th 2019 at 9:10:14 AM

Yeah exactly. And they're even helping the plan that they know is doomed to fail, which they haven't brought up at all?

Or maybe they think Salem's immortality isn't relevant to whether people know about her or not? I don't know.

It's also worth mentioning that:

• When Ozpin told the heroes what the Relic could do, they were automatically jumping to the conclusion that they were going to be asking it questions. When you're surrounded by a bunch of kids who look like they're going to treat it like a fortune cookie, are you going to rush to tell them the truth? I certainly wouldn't. I'm not sure I'd have done the same lie as Ozpin but — to use Qrow's terminology — the kids weren't exactly proving they were trustworthy enough to resist the temptation to waste questions.
• Qrow's comments to Ruby ignores the fact that the person they're assessing for trustworthiness is the same person Ozpin also had to give Relic information to. It's okay for Ruby to withhold information from Ironwood but it's not okay for Ozpin to withhold the same information from the same man? They need to think about that a bit more. Especially since Qrow made it absolutely clear in Volume 3 that there were objections to bringing Ironwood into the fold — it happened only because Ozpin wanted to, indicating that the others in his group struggled to trust Ironwood with any information at all. So, Ozpin may have been keeping secrets from them, but what he did share was more than the others originally wanted to share with Ironwood.
• In other words, we're back to my previous point that they need to think about how Ozpin ended up where he is: we've seen enough to know that Qrow's excuse to Ruby (that the difference is that Ozpin only trusted himself while Ruby's just testing everyone's worthiness) isn't an accurate assessment of Ozpin's behaviour (after all, at one point he trusted Leo with the truth, and the kids ended up proving his own expectations of them, too; he thought they'd turn on him and he was right — so the kids haven't really proven themselves yet either).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not ragging on the heroes in defence of Ozpin so much as I'm pointing out that the kids are making some big mistakes here, not just Ozpin. At the moment, they're still reeling, but I do think the Atlas Arc will be the one where the kids and Ozpin come to an understanding of each other. I don't expect the old dynamic to return, it'll be a new one: Ruby as leader and Ozpin in the role he should be in — guide, not leader.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Nov 25th 2019 at 2:42:12 PM

At this point, I'm guessing that Ironwood is planning to set Team RWBY and their friends up for an ambush...

Edited by gjjones on Nov 25th 2019 at 10:46:47 AM

They definitely don't know what Ozpin experienced but that would be more Ozpins fault for essentially giving up on people. So the key difference could be that rather than taking the easy way out of keeping information close to the vest when this venture eventually goes bad regarding Ironwood that trusting people may have risks but assuming the worse of people is just as problematic and continue to trust people.

Edited by Darthwyn on Nov 25th 2019 at 11:12:02 AM

So if Jacques is Trump does that make Wynter, Weiss and Whitley Don, Eric and Ivanka?

Also, how long before we get Jacques talking about fake news and both sides?

Screw it, I'll start right now.

Jacques: There is no collusion with terrorist organizations led by an evil humanoid abomination. This is fake news. Fake news!.

They didn't turn on him, they were angry at him for keeping secrets but ultimately chose to stand with him.

I don't think Leo work as an excuse in Ozpin's defense either. He was just as blindsided by his betrayal as everyone else.

Edited by windleopard on Nov 26th 2019 at 1:29:28 AM

We need to remember that as far as we can tell, a lot of this stuff has happened in rapid succession. In fact, if you look at the timeline for the main casts plot, less than a week has passed since the beginning of Volume 6!

• Heroes board the Argus Limited. Day 1
• Argus Limited is attacked and RWBYQO seperate from JNR and are joined by Maria. Still Day 1.
• RWBYQ confront Ozpin and learn about Jinn, then the events of RWBY V6E3 "The Lost Fable" happen. Still Day 1.
• Oz locks himself away in Oscar's head and Maria convinces the others to keep moving, coming across Brunswick Farms where they stay the night. End of Day 1.
• RWBYQOM flee Brunswick Farms after the Apathy attack. Day 2.
• RWBYQOM make it to Argus and reunite with JNR, as well as meet with the Cotta-Arcs. End of Day 2.
• RNJRWBY + QOM confront Cordovin and are denied access to Atlas. Day 3.
• Oscar runs off, Jaune has his talk with the Red Haired Woman, Oscar comes back, the gang hatches a plan to hijack an Atlesian Ship. End of Day 3.
• The attempt to steal a Manta starts. Day 4.
• The Battle of Argus begins as RNJRW + QOM battle Cordovin in the Colossus while BY fight Adam. Still Day 4.
• Ruby destroys one of the Colossus' arms and the negativity caused by the Colossus creating quakes frightening the people of Argus attracts the Leviathan and numerous Sphinxs and Manticores while BY kills Adam. Still Day 4.
• Ruby uses her SEW to petrify the Leviathan while Cordovin kills it. She looks the other way and lets them fly off to Atlas. Still Day 4.
• RNJRWBY + QOM arrive in Atlesian Airspace and land in Mantle to avoid the blockade. Maria brings them to meet Pietro, the fight with the Sabres happens, they reunite with Penny, and are arrested by the Ace Ops. Still Day 4!
• RNJRWBY + QOM meet Ironwood and his cabinet, the two groups agree to work together, the Ace Ops apologize for their actions, Penny shows them around the Academy and to their rooms. End of Day 4.
• Ironwood and Clover brief Jaune and Ruby on their plans to turn an abandoned SDC mine into the Launch Site for the Amity Satellite. Pietro gives RNJRWBY new clothes as well as upgrades to their weapons. Oscar remains behind at the Academy with the Relic of Knowledge while Maria sticks with Pietro and RNJRWBY + Q go on a mission with the Ace Ops. Day 5.
• The mission is a success and the Launch Site is now secure. Ironwood is confronted by Jacques and Weiss is confronted by the douche, only to tell him off and declare RNJRBY her Family of Choice. Still Day 5.
• Ironwood officially gives RNJRWBY Huntsmen Licenses and lets them have a celebratory party. End of Day 5.

Everything that's happened to them, from learning about Oz's past, from the fight at Argus, from getting to Atlas, from being Licensed, took less than a fucking week. Is it any wonder they still haven't fully processed most of this shit?

Edited by RebelFalcon on Nov 26th 2019 at 6:07:21 AM

I got the impression a fair amount of time passed in the opening montage (when you need to put yourself to the test and show the passage of time) of episode 3 - a week or two at least.

I wouldn't go that far. At least, not at this stage of the arc. But someone on this thread theorised that the reason Ironwood hugged Qrow was to plant a bug on Qrow's cape. That, I'm willing to believe.

Ozpin's been down a very long road to end up where he is now. Experiences that seemed to swallow up his options, one by one, over time until he was left trapped in a box with no apparently options left but one (himself). All people see is him as he is now, and not the experiences that led him to that point.

We already know that, in his experience, people fall apart or betray him when they're told the truth and people fall apart or betray him when they're not told the truth.

When most decisions you make appear to lead to people falling apart or turning on you or abandoning you, you end up in a place where the only person left you can reliably predict is yourself. You end up being left with yourself.

The kids are all at the start of this journey, so they still don't have a clue yet. But, also, when you've been trapped in that box for so long, you can't get out of it without help. You may even think it's impossible for you to get out of it at all and give up looking for a way out, simply accepting the situation you're in and ploughing onwards more out of instinct than energy.

Because he appears to blame himself for everything, he's accepting the weight of everyone else's fear and recriminations, too. You say Ozpin's fault is giving up on people, but I'm not sure that's right. What he's actually given up on is himself. He's not keeping these secrets because he doesn't trust people. He's keeping these secrets because he's trying to protect them from his own despair.

No, they told him that if he told them truth, they'd still stand by him. He didn't believe them because Leo had said the same thing. Then Jinn's reveal happened, they turn on him, and that validate his belief that telling the truth causes people to turn on him.

Yes, part of my position is that the truth came out while Ozpin was still reeling from Leo's betrayal. The kids haven't processed Ozpin's emotional state yet — they're still trying to process their own.

I'm not using Leo as a defence for anything. I'm pointing out the box that Ozpin's experiences has trapped into. When people turn on you for telling the truth and turn on you for not telling the truth, you end up in a place where nothing you do is the right decision — you're just left with the 'best' decision for you.

That's essentially where Ruby's thinking in the latest episode is beginning to take her when she tells Qrow that she's not sure if what's right is what's best.

That's Ozpin's problem, too.

That's pretty much where I'm coming from. The Atlas Arc is going to be their processing time.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Nov 26th 2019 at 9:28:35 AM

They more or less turned on him because he was keeping secrets. Leo probably turned traitor because of Salem being seen as unstoppable. That is the general trend with those that stopped following Ozpin.

They learned something that made it appear they were fighting a war with no clear end in sight. Leo changed to the side with the clear advantage, Raven decided to get out of the conflict completely and the protagonist decided to find their own solution since Ozpin doesn't appear to have one.

Because the difference is they haven't exactly given up on stopping Salem they gave up on Ozpin at this point. Which is the distinct difference between them and previous betrayals that have been given so far.

Given his relationship with his children, is it possible that Jacques Schnee had an abusive father when he was a child?

Eh, I hope not. They already kinda did the Troubled Abuser thing with Adam.

It's not unheard of for people who were abused as children to become abusers when they grow up. So it is possible.

if anything, they should deal with how the company brand Adam and how it set him on Is path.

Don't worry, Dumb RWBY already did that.◊

Should we bring up Angst? What Angst? for when the group see Amity Arena again and aren't reminded how this was the place Yang was framed, Pyrrha killed Penny, and everything went to shit?

I don't think they ever figured out how Yang was framed either. Volume 5 kind of brushed over them being victim to Emerald's Semblance. Ruby gets hit by it, and all of them see Salem sure, but nobody ever pauses to go "that's what happened in the arena!"

Also, Yang's a licensed ass-kicker now, and the last time Remnant saw her she'd just maimed her opponent on live television.

I suppose once news of Salem breaks people are going to care less about that tool who got hurt during a live sporting event, or the woman who hurt him though.

Edited by Soble on Nov 28th 2019 at 9:14:20 AM