Ambiguous Name: Trying To Catch Me Fighting Dirty

Trying To Catch Me Fighting Dirty is often used and linked to when talking about characters who, well, fight dirty. But the thing is, it's not a trope at all, it's an index. The actual trope for dirty fighters is Combat Pragmatist, and the rest of the tropes in the index can be used to describe the specific dirty actions the fighter performs.

The index is linked to from 715 articles as of this writing. I could do a wick check, but considering how this article should not be linked to at all except for pointing users towards the index, I think it's unnecessary (for example, every example that's on a work's page is automatically misuse).

It also has a Laconic and Quotes page, and I don't think that's allowed for an index.

Changing the index's name to actually indicate that it's an index should solve this issue. I suggest Dirty Fighting Index.

This plus cleaning up the wicks.

I think changing the name to Dirty Fighting Index is a good idea. Doesn't help that the current name is a stock phrase and a snowclone of a song lyric (from "Ridin'" by Chamillionaire).

I started cleaning up wicks.

If we're willing to sacrifice a tiny bit of clarity for the sake of a more clever name than Dirty Fighting Index, maybe Dirty Fighter's Handbook could work too.

No objections to a rename here.

There was also a redirect, Fighting Dirty, which was exclusively misused as a trope rather than an index. I cleaned up all of its wicks and sent it to the Cut List.

I'm confused. How is this not a trope? It's referred to as such in its entry, and it has sub-tropes.

Admittedly, that sounds circular, but what makes this an index instead? Wouldn't it specifically be a Super-Trope?

Edited by caivu on Oct 19th 2018 at 9:59:41 AM

The name definitely should be changed. As it is, it sounds more like the name for a trope of someone trying to hide the fact that they are cheating/playing dirty.

You can see in the sidebar that the page type for Trying To Catch Me Fighting Dirty is "index", not "trope". It's not a trope because it's just a list of other tropes. The trope for "character who fights dirty" is Combat Pragmatist.

In any situation where you'd want to use Trying To Catch Me Fighting Dirty as a trope, the index almost certainly contains an actual trope that fits more precisely.

Just because a page uses the word trope to refer to itself, that doesn't make it a trope. A lot of Audience Reactions and Trivia pages refer to themselves as "tropes" even though they are explicitly Not a Trope. The word "trope" is massively misused on this wiki.

So then why not just make things easier and change it to a Super-Trope? Am I missing something?

The basic form would be "character fights unfairly" or whatever. Then there would be all the sub-tropes to describe specific ways of fighting unfairly.

Edited by caivu on Oct 19th 2018 at 12:10:40 PM

Like I said, the trope for a character that fights unfairly is Combat Pragmatist, and using a Super-Trope is usually bad since there should be a more precise subtrope.

Changing Trying To Catch Me Fighting Dirty to Dirty Fighting Index seems to be the one sensible course of action here. Needs more for confirmation.

Keep, but more general and less dialoguey name.

This reminds me of when For Massive Damage was being misused as a trope instead of index (because of, y'know, the meme, which also named two other tropes. And also confusion with Attack Its Weak Point). The index was renamed to This Index Hits for Massive Damage to be clearer that it was an index.

Edited by Lymantria on Nov 1st 2018 at 8:40:47 AM

What would the non-combat equivalent of Combat Pragmatist be? I've seen it a few times, and I'm not sure what trope to put there. For example, someone who's willing to use dirty tactics in a video game, race, or sports.

I thought Not Cheating Unless You Get Caught, but that's less about a character who's willing to cheat, and more about a competition where cheating is expected. Would Combat Pragmatist still count due to how Tropes Are Flexible?

Edited by Zuxtron on Nov 11th 2018 at 7:40:24 AM

It might not quite be what you are thinking but there is The Unfettered, which seems to be the general lets nothing hold them back from their goals..

Would This Index Fights Dirty or Dirty Fighting Index fit better with the rest of the wiki as the name for this? I agree with a name change, but I'm askimg about the specific name.

I like Dirty Fighter's Handbook.

I'm still working on dewicking the page, but was unable to for a few days due to the Bell Canada problem.

Edited by Zuxtron on Dec 20th 2018 at 12:57:55 PM

What problem?

For a few days, the site would not work properly for Bell Canada users. The CSS wouldn't load at all, so the site had a white background and everything was disorganized and looked horrible. This was seemingly related to the issue that made images not load for certain users (which I think you reported in the bug query forum).

That happened to me too. Wonder what was going on.

• 1 for rename. I support This Index Fights Dirty.

I'd prefer having the word "Index" in the new name regardless of wording, since it avoids the current problem of sounding like a trope name.

I made a crowner to vote on the new names