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Ambiguous Name: Trying To Catch Me Fighting Dirty

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Oct 13th 2018 at 8:20:52 PM

Trying To Catch Me Fighting Dirty is often used and linked to when talking about characters who, well, fight dirty. But the thing is, it's not a trope at all, it's an index. The actual trope for dirty fighters is Combat Pragmatist, and the rest of the tropes in the index can be used to describe the specific dirty actions the fighter performs.

The index is linked to from 715 articles as of this writing. I could do a wick check, but considering how this article should not be linked to at all except for pointing users towards the index, I think it's unnecessary (for example, every example that's on a work's page is automatically misuse).

It also has a Laconic and Quotes page, and I don't think that's allowed for an index.

Changing the index's name to actually indicate that it's an index should solve this issue. I suggest Dirty Fighting Index.

Oct 14th 2018 at 4:34:18 PM

[up] This plus cleaning up the wicks.

GastonRabbit King of Blue Lions from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
King of Blue Lions
Oct 14th 2018 at 4:50:28 PM

I think changing the name to Dirty Fighting Index is a good idea. Doesn't help that the current name is a stock phrase and a snowclone of a song lyric (from "Ridin'" by Chamillionaire).

"...the Linux philosophy is "laugh in the face of danger". Oops. Wrong one. "Do it yourself". That's it." —Linus Torvalds
Oct 14th 2018 at 4:54:52 PM

I started cleaning up wicks.

If we're willing to sacrifice a tiny bit of clarity for the sake of a more clever name than Dirty Fighting Index, maybe Dirty Fighter's Handbook could work too.

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Oct 15th 2018 at 11:56:49 AM

There was also a redirect, Fighting Dirty, which was exclusively misused as a trope rather than an index. I cleaned up all of its wicks and sent it to the Cut List.

Oct 19th 2018 at 9:53:43 AM

I'm confused. How is this not a trope? It's referred to as such in its entry, and it has sub-tropes.

Admittedly, that sounds circular, but what makes this an index instead? Wouldn't it specifically be a Super-Trope?

Edited by caivu on Oct 19th 2018 at 9:59:41 AM

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Oct 19th 2018 at 10:22:19 AM

The name definitely should be changed. As it is, it sounds more like the name for a trope of someone trying to hide the fact that they are cheating/playing dirty.

Oct 19th 2018 at 11:17:28 AM

[up][up] You can see in the sidebar that the page type for Trying To Catch Me Fighting Dirty is "index", not "trope". It's not a trope because it's just a list of other tropes. The trope for "character who fights dirty" is Combat Pragmatist.

In any situation where you'd want to use Trying To Catch Me Fighting Dirty as a trope, the index almost certainly contains an actual trope that fits more precisely.

Just because a page uses the word trope to refer to itself, that doesn't make it a trope. A lot of Audience Reactions and trivia pages refer to themselves as "tropes" even though they are explicitly Not a Trope. The word "trope" is massively misused on this wiki.

Oct 19th 2018 at 12:07:57 PM

[up] So then why not just make things easier and change it to a Super-Trope? Am I missing something?

The basic form would be "character fights unfairly" or whatever. Then there would be all the sub-tropes to describe specific ways of fighting unfairly.

Edited by caivu on Oct 19th 2018 at 12:10:40 PM

My stories on AO3.
Oct 19th 2018 at 12:37:09 PM

Like I said, the trope for a character that fights unfairly is Combat Pragmatist, and using a Super-Trope is usually bad since there should be a more precise subtrope.

Oct 27th 2018 at 4:41:33 AM

Changing Trying To Catch Me Fighting Dirty to Dirty Fighting Index seems to be the one sensible course of action here. Needs more [tup] for confirmation.

Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
Nov 1st 2018 at 5:37:55 PM

[up] Keep, but more general and less dialoguey name.

This reminds me of when For Massive Damage was being misused as a trope instead of index (because of, y'know, the meme, which also named two other tropes. And also confusion with Attack Its Weak Point). The index was renamed to This Index Hits for Massive Damage to be clearer that it was an index.

Edited by Lymantria on Nov 1st 2018 at 8:40:47 AM

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Nov 11th 2018 at 4:38:47 PM

What would the non-combat equivalent of Combat Pragmatist be? I've seen it a few times, and I'm not sure what trope to put there. For example, someone who's willing to use dirty tactics in a video game, race, or sports.

I thought Not Cheating Unless You Get Caught, but that's less about a character who's willing to cheat, and more about a competition where cheating is expected. Would Combat Pragmatist still count due to how Tropes Are Flexible?

Edited by Zuxtron on Nov 11th 2018 at 7:40:24 AM

Rymyll_the_Wanderer from a room with plants and white walls
Nov 12th 2018 at 8:26:19 AM

It might not quite be what you are thinking but there is The Unfettered, which seems to be the general lets nothing hold them back from their goals..

WaterBlap Blapper of Water Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
Nov 12th 2018 at 8:55:55 AM

Would This Index Fights Dirty or Dirty Fighting Index fit better with the rest of the wiki as the name for this? I agree with a name change, but I'm askimg about the specific name.

[witty saying]
SeptimusHeap MOD from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Dec 12th 2018 at 4:52:00 AM Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Dec 20th 2018 at 9:38:51 AM

I'm still working on dewicking the page, but was unable to for a few days due to the Bell Canada problem.

Edited by Zuxtron on Dec 20th 2018 at 12:57:55 PM

Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
Dec 20th 2018 at 2:25:47 PM

For a few days, the site would not work properly for Bell Canada users. The CSS wouldn't load at all, so the site had a white background and everything was disorganized and looked horrible. This was seemingly related to the issue that made images not load for certain users (which I think you reported in the bug query forum).

Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
Dec 20th 2018 at 2:37:42 PM

[up] That happened to me too. Wonder what was going on.

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GastonRabbit King of Blue Lions from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
King of Blue Lions
Dec 22nd 2018 at 3:55:58 PM

I'd prefer having the word "Index" in the new name regardless of wording, since it avoids the current problem of sounding like a trope name.

"...the Linux philosophy is "laugh in the face of danger". Oops. Wrong one. "Do it yourself". That's it." —Linus Torvalds

Alternative Titles: Trying To Catch Me Fighting Dirty
22nd Dec '18 4:18:23 PM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.
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