Complaining: Vanilla Protagonist

I think you have it exactly backwards. By definition a Flat Character is poorly developed. A Featureless Protagonist is a video game protagonist with no characterization. And the Ridiculously Average Guy is an important character who is super normal. Unlike the other two, this character can have a personality, but the description still mentions that he is much less interesting than other characters on the show. Obviously, any of these characters can undergo Character Development, but the tropes would still apply before that happens.

I don't think this should be cut. I support a cleanup, and if that fails a move to Darth Wiki. I'm just against making this an objective trope because I think it's already covered by a number of other tropes. "I find the protagonist less interesting than the other characters on this show" is a perfectly valid Audience Reaction that definitely happens, often in response to these tropes.

Edit: Are you suggesting that this be turned into a supertrope to all these other "bland important characters" tropes? I guess that could work, but I'm not really sure it's needed.

Edited by naturalironist on Jul 7th 2018 at 12:16:03 PM

It’s not a supertrope to anything, although a supertrope could help in general.

I think a rename to something more clear might work, the old name is better than the current one really but umm what about ‘Enabling Protagonist’? These characters are plain (some might use the word ‘Beta’) and ill developed but they are built around enabling the development of the ensemble around them in various ways.

"Enabling Protagonist", just the new tilte I was looking for. Thank you.

This seems to have none of the complaining implications and would give an excuse to clean out misuse.

Enabling Protagonist sounds good, and I think it further clarifies that this isn't Flat Character + The Protagonist (in addition to what part of the current description says) in addition to lessening the unintentional complaining fuel that comes from the current name.

Edit: I checked and there are 12,679 inbounds listed. Is that too many for a rename? Inbound count came up as an argument against renaming Fandom Berserk Button not long ago.

Edit: Thought I'd add that I'm not fond of the old name (Designated Protagonist Syndrome) because it sounds confusingly similar to Designated Hero, akin to how the current name sounds like a subtrope of Flat Character (at least enough so that the description points out that it isn't).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 9th 2018 at 5:32:10 AM

Inbounds shouldn't matter when renaming a trope. All external links would redirect to the new trope name. Wicks are the ones that do matter, because those need to be moved by hand.

I dont think 12k inbounds is too many. If anything its likely a sign that people were still using this as a complaining trope.

The way Vanilla Protag is written is a common complaint thrown at leads and shows without actually going into as to why. Its a very VERY common complaint at Harem Genre and Magical Girlfriend protags.

Should I remove any Vanilla Protagonist example that's used negatively or subject to debate and see and see what's left?

There have been other rename proposals that have been put to rest because the inbounds were above 10k, so I'm not sure why 12k wouldn't have the same effect.

That said, I wonder if this is basically just First-Person Peripheral Narrator but more like a "Third-Person Peripheral Protagonist."

That would be Supporting Protagonist which is quite different than this.

Also that makes it seem like these characters do nothing but watch events unfold, which isn’t true at all, they are clearly the protagonist and always in the thick of everything. It’s their actions that lead to the development of others constantly while they themselves don’t actually develop at all usually cause either nothing actually happens to them, there is an effort to keep at least a partial status quo, or they are just barely going through the motions of what is required for the genre. Which again is because the character is not the point of the show is everyone around them.

With the amount of demonstrated misuse, the inbound issue is really moot imo.

Edited by Memers on Jul 14th 2018 at 1:07:05 AM

Bump.

I've looked over all the examples I could and removed all outright complaining or questionable examples.

Now what?

Clock is up with no progress; locking.