Question to ShoutOut

The Shout-Out examples on Sweet Smell of Success all describe other works referencing the film at hand. I have never seen this trope being used this way. Usually we list here shoutouts to 'other works. Is this a legitimate use of the trope?

The inverse of Shout-Out is Referenced by.... That's what they should be listed under.

Thanks, I never knew this one existed also.

But wait, why is Referenced by... tagged as Trivia and Shout-Out isn't?

Shout-Out has its own name space so it doesn't need the trivia label. Shout-Out should go in /Shoutout.

Shout Out is also part of the work, and intended by the creator(s). Referenced By is something that happens to a work, usually long after it's been created.

ShoutOut.To Shakespeare has the same problem.

Here's an old thread

This is clearly an example of misuse of a trope/namespace, so nuke the lot of it. If you want to be generous, look through the list and see if anything can be transplanted to Referenced by..., if it's not already there for any particular work.

In the case of Shakespeare, ReferencedBy.William Shakespeare is supposed to be references to actual man himself, and is completely redundant to Shakespeare in Fiction.

That sounds like a good idea to just move the examples and make the former a redirect. Shakespeare in Fiction is a better page than ReferencedBy.William Shakespeare, and it's so common it's a trope of its own, which probably is a subtrope of Referenced by..., if it's not got a wider definition, but I suspect not.

Where does ShoutOut.To Shakespeare figure in that? I was thinking of moving it to ReferencedBy.William Shakespeare, and the latter can be merged to Shakespeare in Fiction.

Isn't that about his works, rather than about the man himself?

Technically, they should be on individual pages for his works under Referenced by.... Or perhaps a collective page like ReferencedBy.William Shakespeares Works. I would guess ShoutOut.To Shakespeare was created before the Referenced by... namespace, which was created specifically for that kind of pages.

edited 28th Nov '16 1:48:29 PM by AnotherDuck

Most of the other subpages of William Shakespeare are about his works. I think ShoutOut.To Shakespeare should be moved to ReferencedBy.William Shakespeare, and a note should be added that portrayals of him in fiction go to Shakespeare in Fiction.

You mean rework ReferencedBy.William Shakespeare to be about his works, rather than his person? That would also work for me. Probably the cleanest option.

edited 28th Nov '16 3:01:57 PM by AnotherDuck

ShoutOut.To Norse Mythology and ShoutOut.To HP Lovecraft are in the same boat, although we don't currently have Referenced By pages for either of them.

Is this uncontroversial enough to start fixing it now, or should we wait?

If its not a shout out but a referenced by then its just misuse and fixing it is a free action.

I've fixed ShoutOut.To Norse Mythology and ShoutOut.To HP Lovecraft to ReferencedBy.Norse Mythology and ReferencedBy.HP Lovecraft. Should I go ahead with my Shakespeare plan or should I wait?

edited 29th Nov '16 3:37:10 PM by TropesForever

Sounds good to me. And good work.

Done the moves. ShoutOut.To Shakespeare is now at Referencedby.William Shakespeare, and the two examples from the latter that weren't already on Shakespeare in Fiction are now there.

I'll add a note to each discussion page.