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Nov 27th 2016 at 3:12:28 PM

The Shout-Out examples on Sweet Smell of Success all describe other works referencing the film at hand. I have never seen this trope being used this way. Usually we list here shoutouts to 'other works. Is this a legitimate use of the trope?

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Nov 27th 2016 at 3:21:49 PM

The inverse of Shout-Out is Referenced by.... That's what they should be listed under.

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Nov 28th 2016 at 11:31:32 AM

Thanks, I never knew this one existed also.

Nov 28th 2016 at 11:33:19 AM

But wait, why is Referenced by... tagged as Trivia and Shout-Out isn't?

Nov 28th 2016 at 11:54:07 AM

Shout-Out has its own name space so it doesn't need the trivia label. Shout-Out should go in /Shoutout.

Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
Nov 28th 2016 at 12:00:41 PM

Shout Out is also part of the work, and intended by the creator(s). Referenced By is something that happens to a work, usually long after it's been created.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
Nov 28th 2016 at 12:29:15 PM

ShoutOut.To Shakespeare has the same problem.

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crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Nov 28th 2016 at 12:43:36 PM Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Nov 28th 2016 at 12:49:00 PM

This is clearly an example of misuse of a trope/namespace, so nuke the lot of it. If you want to be generous, look through the list and see if anything can be transplanted to Referenced by..., if it's not already there for any particular work.

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Nov 28th 2016 at 1:14:46 PM

In the case of Shakespeare, ReferencedBy.William Shakespeare is supposed to be references to actual man himself, and is completely redundant to Shakespeare in Fiction.

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AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Nov 28th 2016 at 1:27:24 PM

[up]That sounds like a good idea to just move the examples and make the former a redirect. Shakespeare in Fiction is a better page than ReferencedBy.William Shakespeare, and it's so common it's a trope of its own, which probably is a subtrope of Referenced by..., if it's not got a wider definition, but I suspect not.

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Nov 28th 2016 at 1:35:13 PM

Where does ShoutOut.To Shakespeare figure in that? I was thinking of moving it to ReferencedBy.William Shakespeare, and the latter can be merged to Shakespeare in Fiction.

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AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Nov 28th 2016 at 1:48:09 PM

Isn't that about his works, rather than about the man himself?

Technically, they should be on individual pages for his works under Referenced by.... Or perhaps a collective page like ReferencedBy.William Shakespeares Works. I would guess ShoutOut.To Shakespeare was created before the Referenced by... namespace, which was created specifically for that kind of pages.

edited 28th Nov '16 1:48:29 PM by AnotherDuck

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Nov 28th 2016 at 2:28:48 PM

Most of the other subpages of William Shakespeare are about his works. I think ShoutOut.To Shakespeare should be moved to ReferencedBy.William Shakespeare, and a note should be added that portrayals of him in fiction go to Shakespeare in Fiction.

Happy four years of Undertale!
AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Nov 28th 2016 at 3:01:49 PM

You mean rework ReferencedBy.William Shakespeare to be about his works, rather than his person? That would also work for me. Probably the cleanest option.

edited 28th Nov '16 3:01:57 PM by AnotherDuck

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Nov 28th 2016 at 6:35:19 PM

ShoutOut.To Norse Mythology and ShoutOut.To HP Lovecraft are in the same boat, although we don't currently have Referenced By pages for either of them.

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Nov 29th 2016 at 2:36:00 PM

Is this uncontroversial enough to start fixing it now, or should we wait?

Happy four years of Undertale!
Nov 29th 2016 at 3:07:09 PM

If its not a shout out but a referenced by then its just misuse and fixing it is a free action. [lol]

Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
Nov 29th 2016 at 3:09:21 PM

[tup]

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
Nov 29th 2016 at 3:35:14 PM

I've fixed ShoutOut.To Norse Mythology and ShoutOut.To HP Lovecraft to ReferencedBy.Norse Mythology and ReferencedBy.HP Lovecraft. Should I go ahead with my Shakespeare plan or should I wait?

edited 29th Nov '16 3:37:10 PM by TropesForever

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AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Nov 29th 2016 at 5:33:42 PM

Sounds good to me. And good work.

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Nov 29th 2016 at 5:58:52 PM

Done the moves. ShoutOut.To Shakespeare is now at Referencedby.William Shakespeare, and the two examples from the latter that weren't already on Shakespeare in Fiction are now there.

I'll add a note to each discussion page.

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