Ben 10 (New Series)

Hi? Anyone?

KEVIN◊

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6m_FJ_OA28

RED OMNITRIX, HALF SYMBOL, HE'S BACK BABY!!!!!

I was going to say that. Anyways WHAT THE HECK?!?! KEVIN’S BACK WITH A OMNITRIX LIKE THING?!?!?!

IF I COULD SWEAR I WOULD DO IT!!! BUT I CAN’T SO I’LL JUST TROW MYSELF IN MY FANFICTION WORLD!!!

I’m totally fine.

Kevin 11 with an evil Omnitrix was actually Man of Action's original concept for him back when they were coming up with Ben 10, so it's neat to see them getting to use it now.

I guess he has the Nemetrix?

If Man of Action really intended for Kevin to have his own Omnitrix in the OS, ok then. Two things comes to mind though. One, will Kevin having his own Omnitrix really work well for him as a character and for the show overall? Part of me doubts that considering the poor writing and execution that usually plagues the reboot show. Two, why do you think Kevin ended up not having his own Omnitrix in the OS? Probably because the OS writers saw that it wasn't a good idea and wouldn't work for the OS, which just further fuels my doubt that this direction for Kevin will work in the reboot.

If Kevin really is going to have his own Omnitrix in the reboot, that tells me that it's most likely that he no longer has his original powers. If that really is the case, that means that Man of Action and the other reboot show writers are taking away one of the key aspects about Kevin that defined him at his best. That they're taking away a major component that defined Kevin as a character. That they're taking away what makes Kevin, well, Kevin. Yeah, given how the reboot show and its writers has treated and undermined every returning character (with the exception of Dr. Animo), I have a feeling that they're going to screw up Kevin as well. If Kevin does have his energy absorbing powers, then WHY DOES HE NEED HIS OWN OMNITRIX?!

Edited by TacticalOchoa on Nov 18th 2018 at 11:49:24 AM

Eh. Kevin already changed his powerset like twice or thrice over the course of the whole franchise.

No, they weren't. From what I recall, Kevin's powers didn't really changed at all. Kevin's powers still worked the same way as they were in the Original Series. The sequel show writers added more to them. Throughout each of the sequel shows, Kevin was still able to absorb energy like he did in the Original Series. Stuff like absorbing matter (which I find to not make much sense and to not fit well) was added to Kevin's powers. Not introduced to change Kevin's powers. If anyone is going to point out Kevin in Alien Force season 3, I don't find that to be a change in his powers. That was more like a short term temporary lock than a full on change and once that lock was lifted, Kevin's powers went back to normal. If it does count as a change, it's pretty much the only actual change to his powers that I can think of and again it was more like a short term temporary lock to his powers.

So, Kevin always either absorbs things or gets mutated by it. The mutations by Ben's powers are more common. Imagine if he became the horrible Omnitrix hybrid after a while.

He would be permanently mentally insane (if he already wasn't before in the OS). Having all of that energy absorbed and maintained inside his body would fry Kevin's brain to a crisp, thus negatively affecting Kevin's mental condition in a major and permanent way that Kevin would not be able to recover from. Imagine that. The more powerful Kevin gets, the more insane, uncontrollable, unpredictable, delusional, and mutated he becomes. That's a walking doomsday scenario right there.

If Kevin really is going to have his own Omnitrix in the reboot, that tells me that it's most likely that he no longer has his original powers. If that really is the case, that means that Man of Action and the other reboot show writers are taking away one of the key aspects about Kevin that defined him at his best. That they're taking away a major component that defined Kevin as a character. That they're taking away what makes Kevin, well, Kevin.

Nonsense. Kevin's original energy absorption powers were used a grand total of twice in the original show: his debut, in order for him to absorb the energy of the Omnitrix and mess up his own DNA, and in "Ken 10", where he used it to absorb the energy of actual aliens to store in his DNA and become Kevin 11,000. But as Kevin 11 and Kevin 11,000, his actual power was just being able to use the power of different aliens at once. THAT, not his original energy absorption power, is what made Kevin Kevin. If reboot Kevin's Omnitrix allows him to do that, then they're not taking away what makes Kevin Kevin, they're just changing the way it comes about. Now, if he just turns into aliens like Ben, THEN it will be ruining him since that just makes him Albedo. He's gotta be able to use multiple alien powers at the same time to maintain the core of his character.

Yeah, given how the reboot show and its writers has treated and undermined every returning character (with the exception of Dr. Animo)

I legitimately fail to see how Ben, Gwen, Vilgax, Charmcaster, the Circus Freaks, the Bounty Hunters, Michael Morningstar, Billy Billions, and (from what little we've seen/heard of him in the shorts) Azmuth have been undermined. Grandpa Max, Hex and Zombozo I'll give you, though.

Two, why do you think Kevin ended up not having his own Omnitrix in the OS? Probably because the OS writers saw that it wasn't a good idea and wouldn't work for the OS

No, in the link I provided, it says the reason was because they decided that they were going to give Ben more than 10 alien forms, so the concept of Kevin having his own Omnitrix that has 11 forms became redundant. I again must say that I hope the reason they're giving him one now is because they're going to have it be behind his amalgamated forms, which gives it a purpose.

Edited by Isaac_Heller on Nov 20th 2018 at 2:26:36 AM

Back when they were doing alternate timelines in Omniverse, I really wanted them to show an alternate universe where the Omnitrix ended up on Kevin’s wrist, his energy absorption went out of control and he ended up like something out of AKIRA.

No, there were at least a few more instances of Kevin using his powers in the Original Series. In Kevin 11, there were more smaller scale instances of Kevin using his powers such as on the arcade machine, at the warehouse, and on the lever for the train tracks. Oh and Kevin absorbed energy from the Omnitrix three times in that very same episode. A more unintentional example of Kevin using his powers would be the episode, Framed, where Kevin's hatred and rage caused his powers to become unstable, thus causing his amalgamation mutation. After that, Kevin appeared for two more episodes in the present time in which he didn't use his powers...but then again, why should he? Kevin had the combination of all of Ben's first 10 alien forms combined into one, thus making Kevin powerful enough to give Ben a tough time fighting him. There is also the episode, Perfect Day, but that really wasn't actually Kevin since that he appeared in Ben's dream. In Ken 10, I doubt that Kevin used his powers only once in order to gain that form that he had. He likely had to have used his powers multiple times due the the various creatures that Kevin would have to go through the effort to catch and absorb. Interesting, too, how I believe that Ken 10 is the first time where we learn that Kevin can also absorb energy from various lifeforms. In every previous OS episode that showed Kevin using his powers, I believe he interacted with only electronics, which leaves me to believe that Kevin didn't know that he could also absorb energy from organic lifeforms yet.

Regardless, no, Kevin's energy absorption abilities did make Kevin who he is. It wasn't just the various moments of him using them that showed why. Pretty much everything that revolved around Kevin were because of his powers. Kevin was kicked out of his home by his parents most likely because of his powers and the changed in his behavior that resulted in using them. That very reason likely wasn't explained in the OS but it's not hard to put two and two together since that there's nothing else about Kevin that I could think of that could've been a bigger reason for his parents to reject him other than his powers and Kevin's parents certainly couldn't have kicked him out for no reason. Kevin was also bullied and viewed as a freak by others because of his powers. Kevin's mental instability and insanity as well as his psychopathic behavior were because of his powers. Like I said, all of that energy that Kevin absorbed and maintained in his body, would've fried his brain to a crisp, thus affecting his behavior and mental state in a negative way, which I'm pretty sure you can very much see signs of in Kevin in the OS. Kevin's mutation were also due to his powers and his inability to properly control them. That's another thing about Kevin. Control. OS Kevin wasn't the type of character that was in control of himself. That wasn't in good control of his behavior and mental condition, his actions, his powers, and pretty much everything else that happened to him in his life. His amalgamation mutation is the most obvious example of Kevin's lack of control with himself. Kevin having his own Omnitrix is what I find to be the opposite of that, which is another reason as to why Kevin having his own Omnitrix doesn't fit him as a character. So yes, Kevin's energy absorption powers is indeed a key aspect about Kevin that makes him who he is. Pretty much everything that revolved around Kevin pointed back to his powers. Kevin isn't Kevin without those very powers. If you take away Kevin's powers, you take away Kevin as a character and I don't think replacing his powers with an Omnitrix will be enough to salvage what would be taken away from him. There's a lot more about Kevin other than just his mutated form.

As for the other characters, Ben doesn't grow as a character. He doesn't actually learn from his mistakes and continues to have a trend of making those very same mistakes while also often acting so immature and obnoxious throughout the reboot show. Gwen doesn't put her foot down enough to keep Ben in check and she doesn't feel that useful in the show; especially compared to her in the previous shows. Much of her personality was also stripped away as well, making her feel less unique. Vilgax wasn't hit that hard but some of the comedic stuff that they do with him doesn't fit well. One of my biggest gripes with him is that Yuri Lowenthal is voicing Vilgax and Yuri does a really good job of just show how mismatched of a choice he is for voicing that very character. Yuri and his voice doesn't fit Vilgax. Other characters, such as Charmcaster, the Bounty Hunters (most especially Tetrax of all and not so much of Sixsix and Kraab), Michael Morningstar, Billy Billions, etc., are best explained as just being bland and often times generic shells of their former selves. Much of what defined them at their best was stripped away from them. I will say though, I meant to say almost every character because some characters did at least fine. Morningstar did fare a little better in The Charm Offensive. The Circus Freak Trio wasn't hit that hard either. Vilgax has his moments sometimes. I just don't find them to be great but more on the lines of at least decent. I say Dr. Animo got some of the best treatment in the reboot. Those that got hit the most are Ben, Gwen, Max, Charmcaster, Tetrax, Zombozo, Hex, etc. I find it at it's worse with Ben because he's the main character that people are supposed to like and root for but I find it hard for me to like Ben and root for him if he doesn't actually grow as a character. If he doesn't actually learn from his mistakes. If he keeps making the same mistakes over and over and over. If Ben's behavior is so immature and obnoxious.

As for that link that you provided, where does it say that Kevin was originally going to have his own Omnitrix in the OS? I looked all over that link in your previous comment and I found nothing on that. Went to the Western Animation section of that page and looked up Ben 10 and still found nothing. Went onto the actual Ben 10 page itself and looked up that very trope in the Trivia section and still found nothing. Looked up Kevin Levin in TV Tropes and I still found nothing. Also, if Kevin's Omnitrix is there just so he can transform into an amalgamated form, then no, Kevin having his own Omnitrix doesn't serve enough of a purpose to warrant replacing Kevin's original powers with it because, well, just go back to the second paragraph in my comment that covers how Kevin's powers affected Kevin as a character.

Yeah, but he still barely even shew his original absorbsion powers in the entire show; if you really wanna be technical about it, he had them only in his first episode and briefly in Ken 10, to the point it wasn't even clear until the latter if he still had access to them in his hybrid forms. For most of the show, he was mostly using his hybrid powers. So yeah, siding with Heller on that point. His energy powers might have made him what he ended up as, but most fans will remember him primarily in his hybrid forms (or, if they are more into the sequels, with his matter absorbsion - and even that is debatable considering both UA and OV had him go hybrid at some point). True, it completely changes his character and motivations as they were in the Original Series, but that doesn't necessarily makes it bad (though it could; I personally feel Charmcaster's new origin was a downgrade, but that's less because it changed completely what she was and more because it just makes her a less unique less interesting character). There's nothing wrong with experimenting new ideas as long as it's done well, that's all I am saying.

Ben doesn't grow as a character. He doesn't actually learn from his mistakes and continues to have a trend of making those very same mistakes while also often acting so immature and obnoxious throughout the reboot show.

Agreed, but to be fair, OS Ben also had a bad case of Aesop Amnesia every now and then. And I don't think I need to repeat a thousandth time how I hate OV fort turning that aspect of the character Up To Eleven.

Gwen doesn't put her foot down enough to keep Ben in check and she doesn't feel that useful in the show; especially compared to her in the previous shows. Much of her personality was also stripped away as well, making her feel less unique.

Eh, frankly she never was unique personality-wise. In OS, she pretty much was the typical female character who keeps trash-talking the idiotic male one and is always portrayed as better at everything than he is. And while the sequels made her a bit less annoying on that side, she still didn't strike me as having an unique personality.

Vilgax wasn't hit that hard but some of the comedic stuff that they do with him doesn't fit well. One of my biggest gripes with him is that Yuri Lowenthal is voicing Vilgax and Yuri does a really good job of just show how mismatched of a choice he is for voicing that very character. Yuri and his voice doesn't fit Vilgax.

Can't judge on the comedic moments. As for Yuri's voice... I don't know. Need to re-listen to clips of the episodes to judge.

Yes, more often we did see Kevin in his mutated form over Kevin using his powers in the Original Series. That doesn't make the impact that Kevin's powers had on him any less relevant and any less important. Kevin's energy absorption powers still made him who he is. They still made him the iconic, complex, and great character that fans remember him as in that show. They're still a huge part of what makes Kevin who he is. If that aspect and its effect on Kevin was taken away and all Kevin had was just that amalgamated form, I don't think people would've found Kevin to be as good and memorable of a character. I've seen plenty of instances of stuff like this happening to think for things to happen the other way around. I'm pretty sure that there are plenty enough of fans out there that think more of OS Kevin than what you claim. Saying that most fans remember Kevin for his mutated form the most? That's like saying most Star Wars fans remember Luke Skywalker for being a jedi master the most or most Resident Evil fans remember Albert Wesker for his superhuman abilities and/or choice of attire the most or most Silent Hill fans remember Pyramid Head for his design the most, not taking into consideration that these very folks may actually see a lot more about these very characters than what's just on the surface of them. In fact, generally, most people don't remember great characters for what's on the surface. Most people remember great characters for having well-written personalities, motives, actions, choices, struggles, achievements, depth, etc.

And yes, it's not always bad to experiment with new ideas. Something that might not seem so promising could end up being pretty good. It's all a matter of how it's executed though. Even good ideas can turn out to be terrible if the execution was off. When George Lucas was making the very first Star Wars film, he wanted to put more political elements into it but his film crew saw that and said no to him because they knew that it was a bad idea for the type of film that they were making...AND THEY WERE RIGHT. Most of the political elements in the Star Wars prequel films were boring and they were one of the major factors that undermined the quality of those films greatly. Sure, there were some moments of good in the political elements but they were overshadowed by the issues that were created. Could politics in Star Wars work? Sure, they possibly could...if George Lucas was a better writer and his prequel films crew were more like his original crew.

Even then, there's just that matter of if it even is a good idea to experiment with new ideas in certain ways. Does it work in this direction or the other direction? In regards to Kevin, is it really such a good idea to make such a major change to him as a character? Is it really such a good idea to remove something that defined Kevin at his best and replace it with something else? Something that might not fit Kevin as a character? Something that might not do enough to salvage what was lost as a result of removing such a key component to Kevin? It's like when Stan Lee criticized SJ Ws for wanting to make Peter Parker/Spider-Man black or gay (here's an article that provides more insight on what he says just for some extra context: https://theralphretort.com/stan-lee-tells-the-sjws-to-make-their-own-characters-they-cry-in-response-6025015/) and I say he's right with his reasoning behind why. If you want a black Spider-Man, do you change Peter Parker's skin color to make him black? No, you create Miles Morales. If you want a female Spider-Man, do you change Peter into being female? No, you create Spider-Gwen.

I say that same logic applies to Kevin Levin and the notion of replacing his powers as well. If you want to introduce a character who wields another Omnitrix, do you remove Kevin's original powers and replace them with said Omnitrix? No, create a new character and slap the Omnitrix on him/her. There isn't a valid enough reason to make such a major change to Kevin as a character like this. Kevin was written in the Original Series to have energy absorbing powers and that remained the very case all the way to the end of Omniverse. Even if this is a reboot show, another reason for Kevin to keep his original powers is for the matter of maintaining consistency with his character. Again, if Man of Action and CN Studios wants to introduce another Omnitrix into the reboot show, don't slap it onto a character that it's not going to fit well with. Create a new character and slap this new Omnitrix onto him/her or at the very least put that Omnitrix onto a different character or characters that it makes more sense with, like the Plumbers kids. Alan, Manny, Helen, Pierce, etc. I don't remember if I mentioned this before on here (probably because I mentioned stuff like this so many times on numerous forums) but the Little Moments fanfic series by shadows59 reintroduced the Plumbers kids but made it so that instead of being human/alien hybrids, they were just regular, fully human kids that were each given by the Plumbers their own Omnitrix replicas that each only had one DNA sample. The build up to that was done in such an interesting way that was so much better and made so much more sense than how the Plumbers kids were implemented in Alien Force and retconned in the Rooters arc. I say that would be great to see in an actual Ben 10 show. Either creating a new character or bringing back the Plumbers kids would be a much better direction and use of this very idea introducing a new Omnitrix than removing Kevin's powers and replacing them with that very Omnitrix. You take issue with Kevin not using his energy absorbing powers often in the Original Series? The reboot could fix that by showing Kevin use those very same energy absorbing powers more frequently compared to the Original Series. I'm down for that. I, too, want to see Kevin use his original powers more often and in ways to create some interesting, tense, and challenging conflicts for Ben to face and try to overcome. In the end, I still say that removing Kevin's original powers and replacing them with another Omnitrix is going to turn out to be a mistake for Man of Action and CN Studios to make and things don't look any more promising considering how, again, Man of Action and the other reboot show writers significantly undermined almost every returning character in the reboot show. From what I'm seeing, based on Man of Action and CN Studios' treatment with the reboot show and based on what was shown with the reboot version of Kevin, this seems more like it's going to be a repeat of reboot Charmcaster.

Edited by TacticalOchoa on Nov 21st 2018 at 9:17:43 AM

So, guys, what about those toys that showed up a Diamondhead tank and a Heatblast plane?

I wanna see those tank and airplane so bad. Can't wait to see Ben take part in the gem war. Joking aside, I wanna see how Ben will react to having those bad boys in battle, especially when his bro is inside, helping him go hero ever since he defeated Vilgax the first time.

I don’t think Glitch is inside/in them. But Ben’s reaction would be PURE GOLD.

Oh? I thought the vehicles were supposed to be Glitch merged with the Rustbuggy, with his link to the Omnitrix and having half of Ben's DNA making it so that he transformed too.

I do think Ben would have a jaw drop when he sees the first energy vehicle, like when he got OE Diamondhead the first time.

I also wonder how he'll handle still having Shock Rock in the roster, considering this was basically Ghostfreak, except he actually loved the guy and his powers... like Feedback, and more recently, Gax... and now one of his favs is causing him trouble and still hasn't left.

That doesn't make the impact that Kevin's powers had on him any less relevant and any less important. Kevin's energy absorption powers still made him who he is. They still made him the iconic, complex, and great character that fans remember him as in that show.

Well, Kevin wasn't that complex in the Original Show. True, he had a sympathetic backstory implied, but they never really went into depth about it, and he kept pulling Redemption Rejection. There is a different between fan-speculation/implications and actual facts.

It's all a matter of how it's executed though.

And we haven't seen the execution yet here.

Mind you, I do not like the idea either as it is, but that's mostly because having his own Omnitrix was Albedo's shtick, and I feel that takes it away from him for Kevin. But I'm still willing to wait what they'll do before I start ranting about how Kevin's character has been savaged.

Most of the political elements in the Star Wars prequel films were boring and they were one of the major factors that undermined the quality of those films greatly. Sure, there were some moments of good in the political elements but they were overshadowed by the issues that were created.

I personally think the prelogy is underrated, but whatever.

Atamaii posted another video. Grey Matter, Wildvine and Overflow are leaving, now Slapback, Rath and Humungousaur can take their places.

RIP my bois.

That's odd because there is one more alien coming, Hot Shot. You can see him here at 4:50 and 9:05. Hate to be negative, but he looks like a Heat Blast knock-off.

So it looks like they're sticking to the whole 10 aliens at a time thing.

Wait, wait, wait, WHAT?!?! Grey Matter, Wildvine and Overflow are leaving?!?! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! NOT MY FAVE ALIENS!!!!!! NOT THE SMART GUY!!!! UNLESS SLAPBACK HAS SUPER INTELLIGENCE I’M NOT LIVING IT DOWN!!!!

So it looks like they're sticking to the whole 10 aliens at a time thing.

Yep. I don't know the details but apparently one of the creators feel it makes no sense for the show to be called Ben 10 if he has more than 10 aliens at the same time, so he feels adding new aliens in addition to the ones he already has is out of the question.