Condemned by History is a problem trope for many reasons. It leads to edit warring and confusion over what qualifies. In this thread we'll look for bad examples, and look for feedback. Here are the guidelines for this trope:
- The franchise has to be truly popular and loved at first. Things that are So Bad, It's Horrible don't count.
- Simply losing popularity isn't enough. We need to see an actual backlash, with liking it being considered bizarre. Otherwise, every not-so-famous film or concluded television series would be here.
Let's go!
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 16th 2024 at 4:23:01 AM
Mweheheh
This has been said before, but I think Fallen Creator being locked has resulted in people trying to shoehorn entries like that on DTD.
Peace is the only battle worth waging.
If that's true, then we should probably give DTD the Complete Monster/Five-Man Band treatment. There's already a cleanup thread, so it's basically the same thing already; all it needs is an actual lockdown.
Thoughts?
edited 12th Apr '18 6:47:09 PM by Theatre_Maven_3695
Fallen Creator was locked because it became a target of the Mass Effect 3 troll.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
In that case, could it be unlocked as it's been years since that whole mess? Or is this like the Vampire Diaries wonk who will just wait with their finger on the trigger for years on end?
I think there's a case to be made that people who are so determined to complain that they'll shoehorn to do it wouldn't exactly be making constructive edits anyway.
Lost in Space
I have a feeling that articles like Deader Than Disco, Fallen Creator, et. al., are basically impossible to keep "clean", because there are so many people out there who live only to complain about things regardless of whether it meets any particular standard or definition.
Years ago, our approach was to try to "wall off" the worst of the complaining by shoveling it into Darth Wiki so it wouldn't spill out into the rest of the wiki. Are we paying the price for that in that people come here with a license to whine? Just think about the sheer number of tropes we have that amount to, "This thing is bad and/or people didn't like it."
edited 13th Apr '18 6:26:04 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Heel
I do think we can move some of the DTD entries to Fallen Creator, including Kricfalusi and Weinstein. Here's who I think can fit
Actors
- Adam Sandler
- Bill Cosby
- Brendan Fraser
- Charlie Sheen
- Eddie Murphy
- Johnny Depp
- Kevin Spacey
- Mel Gibson
- Mike Myers
- Rob Schneider
- Steven Seagal
- Harvey Weinstein
- Michael Bay
- Michael Cimino
- Roman Polanski
- Woody Allen
- Anita Bryant
- Cee Lo Green
- Lostprophets
- Mystikal
- Natalia Kills and Willy Moon
- Robin Thicke
- Ted Nugent
- Ten Walls
- Chris Benoit
- Fabulous Moolah
- Impact Wrestling
- New Jack
- Don Imus
- Aaron Hernandez
- Jerry Sandusky
- Lance Armstrong
- Larry Nassar
- O.J. Simpson
- Oscar Pistorius
- Jake and Logan Paul
- Lucas Cruikshank
- Sam Pepper
- Butch Hartman
- John Kricfalusi
I think we should make a clean-up thread for this. Is there one yet?
edited 13th Apr '18 7:31:41 AM by LaptopGuy
I no longer edit on TV Tropes but will continue as an occasional forum poster.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Do you think they should be cut?
Mweheheh
Add Josh Trank & Jian Ghomeshi to that list.
DTD has too many wicks for it to be cut, but I suppose we could make it a redirect.
edited 13th Apr '18 3:25:21 PM by Spinosegnosaurus77
Peace is the only battle worth waging.
Lost in Space
I'm not saying to cut everything. I'm saying that there's a strong case to be made for stripping down and consolidating all the complaining tropes. That's well beyond the scope of this discussion, though.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
I think we should add some more examples to Fallen Creator, which should be unlocked.
Western Animation:
- Cinar: Once one of Canada's largest animation studios, the company was ruined by copyright infringement (Robinson Sucroe) and a financial scandal. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cookie_Jar_Group
edited 25th Apr '18 8:11:34 PM by AreYouTyler
Mweheheh
At the same time, I think some examples (e.g. Elton John) should be removed.
Peace is the only battle worth waging.
He's seriously still on there?
This was recently added to the page:
- The undercut hairstyle, with the hair buzzed on the sides but left long on top, was sported by celebrities like ''Macklemore and David Beckham in The New '10s and was considered stylish in the first half of the decade. Then white nationalists, most notably alt-right leader Richard Spencer, started sporting it both in tribute to Nazi soldiers wearing their hair that way to make taking their helmets on and off easier as well as the style being less intimidating than the classic "skinhead" look. People who weren't white nationalists abandoned the style in droves after Donald Trump's election. Even Macklemore abandoned the look. The look has become the 21st century equivalent of the toothbrush mustache.
Cutting per this.
...
Undercuts were always disliked even when they were popular, anyway.
🍊orange fursona🧡
Unintentional pun there. I also sometimes get confused if the fade haircut is the same with the undercut.
As it pertains to music, should bands/artists who are still releasing music (ie, Nickelback) be included? After all, if they're still active, their music cant really be called "dead" can it? (And on a side note, the rock tab for DTD STILL has Power Ballads listed).
Ongoing works can't be DTD by definition even if public opinion turns against them, so I'd say musicians or bands still releasing new music can't be DTD.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
Are there any non-shoehorned examples of DTD works?
Join the Five-Man Band cleanup project!
There's some on the page as we speak. The fact that there aren't many of them and some are pretty old works is more a sign of how this has previously been treated as a complaining page than anything else.
edited 20th May '18 9:59:51 PM by nrjxll
Mweheheh
I don’t think we really need this trope in the first place. While we can’t cut it due to inbounds, I’m willing to redirect it to Fallen Creator or a similar page.
Peace is the only battle worth waging.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
Give an example, of "everyone loved it then everyone hated it".
Perhaps the text should be changed to "an individual work, the collected works of a creator/performer/artist, an entire genre".