Speed Racer (2008)

In my defense, I just clarified that I have no intention of making this personal. Also, nowhere in my post have I ever lost focus from the movie (and creators) to a person.

I apologize if I offended you in any way. It's just that, while unintentional, I felt like you were implying that I'm not as intelligent as you or the others or dislike the film, what with you bringing up filmmakers who disliked it, and using the fact that you go to film school.

Like, I know you didn't mean it, but you made me feel like a person with no taste in films.

Overall though, I guess this film is quite a subjective one. You either like what it was trying to achieve and feel it did just that, or you don't.

edited 7th May '16 10:35:03 PM by LDragon2

In any case, I apologize if I came off as flippant.

While we're on the subject of bloggers and commentators discussing this film, here are a few more that have come to defend it. So I'd still say that is is Vindicated by History, even though it still has detractors.

And at the very least, the film's has one great orchestral remix of the main theme:

edited 7th May '16 11:10:16 PM by LDragon2

I was only bringing up Quentin Tarantino because his name was mentioned in the talk of another critic. How on earth does bringing up an opposing professional constitute as an insult against those who like the work? That's a serious leap of logic.

Also, when did I ever used the fact that I go to film school for anything? The only time I ever mentioned film school is when I said that I can't afford to go to film school, so I have to make do with self-teaching. Don't distort the facts.

My posts never focused on any person, be it an individual or a group. It was never about you or me, and if you felt offended in spite of that it sure isn't my fault.

And these handful bloggers prove...what, exactly?

Because I can bring up a bunch of professional critics who praised Transformers: Revenge of The Fallen. Does that mean it's also Vindicated by History? As much as I actually like the movie, it's obviously no.

edited 7th May '16 11:49:43 PM by dRoy

Ah, I thought you mentioned that you did go to film school. My apologies for misunderstanding. And I guess I thought you bringing up a professional who disliked the movie felt a bit insulting because it seemed like you were implying that those who dislike the film are much more talented and smarter than those who like it. Again, I apologize.

And I brought those bloggers because they came to like and defend it several years after it was released. I'm pretty sure the professional critics who praised ROTF did so at the time of it's release, unless I'm mistaken.

edited 8th May '16 12:06:32 AM by LDragon2

It is typically considered ideal to think before saying or writing so there will be less misunderstanding.

That's meaningless, seeing how the reviews are written around three to four years later. Also, it's irrelevant. The point is that a handful of bloggers' praise isn't significant enough to count as vindication. It still stands at 38% on Rotten Tomatoes, with IMDB rating that is around that of Green Lantern and Transformers: Dark of the Moon.

It's more like Speed Racer is still a bad movie with small dedicated fans, a Cult Classic.

Then again, Birdemic and The Room are also considered Cult Classic, so it's pretty much a worthless title.

Hey, there are plenty of films that became cult classics for reasons beyond So Bad, It's Good. And I believe that, unlike Speed Racer, films like The Room and Birdemic are cult classics because they are laughably bad, while those who enjoy Speed Racer do so because they genuinely enjoy its story and visuals.

Really, I guess it all comes down to whether or not one enjoys what the Wachowskis were going for with this film. What one sees as bad can just as easily be seen as good by another. Like, I actually really enjoyed it's unconventional approach to how it told it's story and showcased anime-influenced visuals, as well as staying true to the overly cheesy tone of the 60s anime, but I can see why that wouldn't fly with everyone. It's all subjective.

edited 8th May '16 12:38:09 AM by LDragon2

You can believe whatever you want, it still doesn't change the fact that Cult Classic is a worthless status that even atrociously bad movies can get.

Well no crap, it's subjective. No movie critics in history ever claimed to be objective anyway. It's just that some movies are easier to make more reasonable and persuasive arguments for their favor. Speed Racer isn't one of them.

You're right that some cult classic films are really bad. However, some aren't, and are viewed as being unappreciated.

Well again, all I can say about Speed Racer is that one will either love it's over-the-top cartoon nature, it's complete refusal to adhere to any laws of reality, its color and visuals, and the emulation of the cheesy original 60s anime as well as it's drive to be the closest thing to a live-action anime, or you'll hate it for those reasons.

Heck, even though I love the movie, I don't think it's the best example of a live action anime-style film. That goes to The Matrix, Pacific Rim, and Edge of Tomorrow.

edited 8th May '16 1:12:51 AM by LDragon2

Fight, Fight, Fight, Kiss, Kiss.

Well, when challenged, movie critics will say taste is subjective. Otherwise, though, a great many of them certainly write as if they think their opinion is the only one a rational, intelligent person could have.

edited 8th May '16 3:13:52 PM by Robbery

@LD

First of all, pro-tip: it's typically considered a poor argument to respond a rebuttal to a claim by...saying the exact thing all over. I'm going to say this one more time; it doesn't matter how many movies with cult status is actually good and simply unappreciated. If so many atrociously bad movies have also cult status, that simply devalues the worth of the status itself. If a lot of shitty movies win Oscar of Best Picture, that would mean that the award would be worthless.

Second, you seem to be so sure of how Speed Racer is received. Then again, this whole thread is, as Napoleon De Cheese said, is launched with the expectations for praising feedbacks, so can't say I'm too surprised. I don't think such view is ever going to change, and frankly, I never intended to anyway.

Oh yes, because over-the-topness (which is the same thing with refusal with laws of reality, btw), colorful visuals, cheesiness, is all something that this movie is unique for. Not something that has been frequently done since...I don't know, late 60s.

Also, by 2008 we already had plenty of animated films and live action movies based on cartoon/comics/toys with mature story (or at least coherent one). Hell, in 2008 alone we had movies like The Dark Knight, Iron Man, and Wall-E, all of which are either based on comics or/and had kids as demographics.

The Wachowkis thought that they were being revolutionary. The sad reality they never realized is that they were actually behind the time. Nobody was surprised that it was a massive failure, except the Wachowskis. They never learned their lessons and went on to make Jupiter Ascending and brought on the end of their film career, which was long overdue. They seem to be doing well with Sense8, so they probably should stay there.

Did you ever see the original anime?

Admittedly, if you wanted to really homage the original show you'd have to have everyone talk like they did in the English dub. Shame they didn't do that.

(Fun fact: when the film was released in Japan, it was under the English name of the show. Mach Go Go Go is not one of Tatsunoko's more popular titles over there. Gatchaman and Time Bokan are more popular, really.)

The 60s one? Yeah, although it was dubbed in my country's language.

And my God, even back then I didn't really like Spritle and Chim-chim, but at least they were tolerable enough.

But in the movie?

.......Let's just say that I'd rather put up with Jar Jar Binks than them.

Obviously the film is a throwback to that style of 60s anime, so it's not exactly original in terms of style. But the way it was shown is why I liked it. And of course there a much more mature well-written films with an anime inspired aesthetic. Heck, I just named three of them in an earlier post. But Speed Racer wanted to keep the childish and zany tone of the 60s anime intact, which, for better or worse, gave it its tone.

I'm not sure what you want me to say.

edited 8th May '16 6:17:43 PM by LDragon2

Say whatever you feel like, really. I'm just refuting arguments that are made in favor for Speed Racer.

The ones that I listed are cartoon/toy based movies/animated movies that are released in that year. Also, yes, the movie "aimed to keep the childish and zany tone of the 60s anime intact", which, by the time 2008 rolled in, was a both critical and commercial suicidal plan whose approval stands as a shining example of Warner Bros executives' incompetence.

Also, Pacific Rim, probably, but The Matrix and Edge of Tomorrow is NOT live-action cartoon. The Matrix is a cinematic extension and product of cyberpunk culture that started to bloom since the early 80s. And while Edge of Tomorrow is based on a Japanese work, the movie's adaptational changes gave it elements and aesthetics that are hardly exclusive to Japanese media (powered exoskeletons are more of western invention than Japanese).

I love Speed Racer and I'm glad I live in a world where it was made and I was made aware of it when I was.

edited 8th May '16 7:13:47 PM by FoxBoxKid

Good for you and the wonderful experience you had.

I rewatch Speed Racer at least twice a year.

edited 8th May '16 7:15:08 PM by FoxBoxKid

That said, I actually genuinely enjoyed Roger Allam's performance as Arnold Royalton. His acting capacity surpassed the script, really.

I don't care about this debate/argument, I honestly skimmed/skipped most of it. I'm just here to say this movie is one of my guilty pleasures and I love watching it for its audacity and stupidity while still being wildly entertaining and fun to watch. I'm out.

If they ever needed to make a live action colorful pop remake of a Tatsunoko property from the seventies, that should have been Gatchaman-Battle of the Planets anyway.

Tatsunoko did that, back in 2013... by all accounts it was a bog-standard action movie, with all its cliches, using the Gatchaman name.

I daresay they might have even done a live action Time Bokan or Yatterman film as well...

EDIT: They indeed did do a Yatterman film, back in 2009.

edited 9th May '16 12:15:34 PM by Aldo930

Just discovered this thread.

I defend this movie a lot, since I had a great theater experience going to see it with my co-workers back then. Too bad it was steamrolled by the first MARVEL Studios movie (Iron Man) a week later, that would kick off the MARVEL Cinematic Universe series.