Diversity and Representation in Media

This whole attack thing is a mess. I hope it resolves itself soon.

@vicarious: Yeah. Fate/Grand Order.

For the uninformed, it's a mobile game juggernaut in Japan. Recently, NA's server reached the point where it had to introduce a character named Emiya Alter that clearly evoked blackface and other black stereotypes (was called "Detroit Emiya", artist commentary mentioned invoking the look of someone from prison, had very dark skin, and pronounced pink lips). They edited◊ the character◊ in recently released still images and a trailer.

Should be a cut-and-dry issue, right?

No and nope. You got people decrying censorship and PC culture and blah blah blah. They also claim "whitewashing," but I can tell you guys it's bullocks because the character isn't even black — he's Asian. Literally he's the alternate version of the future self of the parent work's Japanese protagonist. Hence the blackface similarities.

Edited by erazor0707 on Feb 16th 2019 at 6:53:59 AM

The whole Jussie Smollett thing is such a confusing mess. I really hope it turns out it's not a hoax, 'cause that will cause so much damage, but I'm adopting a "wait and see" approach before I freak out about it

I laughed at that name.

And yeah, is a clear blackface inspired design. Pretty gross overall.

Thought...why? What's the backstory behind the character/ design (Fate looooves reusing designs, right?)

Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 16th 2019 at 10:16:33 AM

Jokes about how the original Archer Emiya (Late-Arrival Spoiler) is a black man and that Shirou used magic to give himself a Race Lift have existed for years. I've also seen his design slammed for its perceived edginess and being a lazy ripoff of Pucci from Jojos Bizarre Adventure.

The lore explanation for EMIYA Alter's skin tone is overuse of magic (mages in Fate have circuits all over their body, hence the uniform discoloration), which basically "burns" his skin to that point. OG EMIYA also has a darker skin tone than Shirou, though not to Alter's extent. What that doesn't explain are the thicker lips, which basically negates the entire lore excuse.

Part of the issue was that in interviews, the artist was told to make Alter "look like a prisoner," and that was what he came up with, and DW greenlit. Japan, as well, doesn't have the most successful portrayal of black men in their media, hence the lack of public outcry on their end when Alter was released.

If we have to be honest, the real Doylist reason for why Archer has dark skin is to better hide his real identity that he's an older version of the main character, Shirou, from the future.

Edited by AlleyOop on Feb 16th 2019 at 10:42:21 AM

Mira amigo, yo naci blanco pero me queme con el sol.

(Look friend, I was born white but the sun burned me)—it's a typical Latinoamerican phrase uses for self hating racists.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 16th 2019 at 10:46:09 AM

I mean, I can understand the Japanese side. They still got a way's to go as they continue internationalizing their media, which I hope (alongside the Internet) helps them out.

It's our response that gets to me. This shouldn't be a divisive issue, but it is.

Edited by erazor0707 on Feb 16th 2019 at 7:59:29 AM

So kind of a weird question: How common are light-skinned latino characters? You know since Latino Is Brown. Here from the glorious European country of Argentina, i demand more white latinos.

Honestly, i would love if fiction in general remembered that there are more countries in Latin America than Mexico and Brazil.

Even then you barely ever see or hear anything about Brazil that isn't Rio, or at best, Salvador.

On American shows/movies at least, almost all Latino characters are white to medium brown. Usually darker means they’re more likely to be a stereotypical background or stock character (maid, drug dealer, etc).

Puerto Rico and Cuba get some rep, since they’re so close.

Edited by wisewillow on Feb 16th 2019 at 11:12:03 AM

Despacito doesn't count for Puerto Rican representation

I guess Colombia does pop up when drugs have to be involved, of course. But the rest of South America is usually ignored.

Except Uruguay because funny jokes.

Edited by fasoman1996 on Feb 16th 2019 at 1:14:25 PM

I was thinking In the Heights, West Side Story, and Into the Spider-Verse for Puerto Rico, and One Day at a Time for Cuba.

There's Honey Lemon from Big Hero 6 that's a light-skinned Latino.

Have to admit that regarding represenation, that regarding Latinos...We're just too many different nationalities and ethnic groups. Some lighter skinned, other dark skinned...and that without getting into the inmigrant groups as Asian-latinos (Afro-latinos mostly came from colonial times,Asian latinos in many countries come from their independent eras...unless is Philipines, i think. Not overall rule for us).

Our racial dynamics are defined as a spectrum, not as a absolutist One-drop rule. Is not "Whites vs Everyone else".

This is not me hating USA for not showing it, they legit have no obligation with us, unlike the moral duty that they have with—for example—afro americans. Is just that there things that I don't think a american audience could fully grasp (just as there things from american racial views that Latinos feel borderline alien). Plus, there a big focus on nationality, a very big one, we mock America for it, but we're massive hypocrites on that.

Plus, there a lot of biases regarding identification between us. Cuba or Puerto Rico usually feel more foreign to a South American than, for example, Mexico, even thought all of them are in the North. Is like asking a Japanese to self-identify with a Vietnamese.

...Asia is really the easiest comparation to do, it isnt?

Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 16th 2019 at 12:44:49 PM

Depends. How much of the South American nations' relationship with each other can be summed up as "either passive aggressive or just plain aggressive"?

Edited by M84 on Feb 17th 2019 at 10:55:20 PM

Passive agressive? Almost all. Thought unified somewhat due to the idea of a common enemy.

Honey Lemon of big hero six is white Latina

Some of the characters in One Day At A Time are lighter-skinned, in particular Elena. It's even addressed in-show.

I am reasonably sure based on Newest National News and the success of satire shows you could make a satire of Latin America's various dictators all being forced to live together, and the dysfunctions that occur.

Just...absolutely take the piss out of these guys and rob them of the vicious respect and fearful awe they think they deserve.

Or to put it another way, Mel Brooks-ify them.

They could throw some guests in the bunch like Kissinger or Nixon, for some extra fun.

Including doing coups against the othet all the time. Even if Americans don't do nothing

"Murica!!!!"

"american president: ...I actually didn't anything...but NOW I will do!!"

Seeing how people react to Emiya alter in FGO, i kinda wonder what will happen when they make the anime adaptation for Jojo part 6 Stone Ocean since Pucci is both black and gay.

Pucci was always popular with the fandom, who is already one of the most toxic ever (like, they harassing other fandoms is a normal ocurrence).

Expect a massive "And this is how its done, take this fucking SJW!!". As it happens everytine when they like a minority character.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Feb 17th 2019 at 11:38:30 AM

What about the reaction from outside the fandom then? Pucci is still a villain character that is a priest, gay and black.