Tangled: the Series

I'm starting to wonder if one of the script writers stumbled upon that very page.

Pascal's Dragon. Remind me why no one cares about Petes Dragon? Which version? Yes. Mathematician's Answer

The Captain is a broken and sad man at this point. He would deserve a hug if he didn't imprison Alfons.

https://animation-nerd14.tumblr.com/post/190367924153/ahhhhhhhh-oh-my-god

Spoilers ahead:

Someone on Tumblr found 3 episode descriptions on Google.

I hope Post redemption Cassandra behaves like the upbeat version of Cassandra seen in the episode “Not in the mood.”

https://mobile.twitter.com/DisneyTVANews/status/1220426768273854465

Here's a small sneak peek.

Yeah. That's a Tempting Fate song if I ever heard one.

So I've been in and out of this, keeping track through the occasional youtube video and sometimes checking out the trope page, and thus I know enough about what's going on, what's recently happened (the Captain's episode) and what's coming (REVENGE!!!) and in doing so, I had a theory about who the little girl guiding Cassandra is:

Gothel.

Or rather a ghost of her. Maybe her spirit survived somehow, or perhaps this is some kind of echo of what she used to be. Hard to say, since I haven't seen enough to say if the girl is manipulating Cassandra in a manner similar to how Gothel manipulated Rapunzel.

Can't even say if I'm the first person to come up with this (I doubt it; this feels like a go to theory for most internet nerds) but I'm hoping I'm on to something.

I think that's been suggested on this thread. I don't think it's Gothel, because I don't think Gothel has the kind of self-awareness she'd need to manipulate Cass in the way the ghost girl has. The ghost girl has pretty blatantly played on Cass's psychological damage and insecurities about the ways she was mistreated by her mother. While Gothel certainly knows how to manipulate people, I don't think she'd do it in a way that would involve implicitly acknowledging to herself that she was a terrible, harmful parent. By most appearances, Gothel is narcisistic enough to think she's a great mother who's justified in all that she's done.

That is true.

Whelp, I'm still glad I put it out there.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DisneyTVANews/status/1220797662322184193

Here's another sneak peek

Could the ghost girl be instead the Big Bad Evil Demon guy we keep getting alluded to in the Myth Arc? That surely has to be going somewhere considering how much that's been building since even season 1 and I can't see them having such a big horned demon show up, but I can see them plot twisting us into it.

She almost definitely has something to do with Zhan Tiri, considering that she first showed up in the House of Yesterday's Tomorrows, where one of his followers had set up shop.

Welp. Ghost Girl stepped up her game, and her Slasher Smiles this time.

In which Cassandra is an idiot, Rapunzel runs right into a trap, and Eugene is afraid of getting old. Also Lance, Catalina and Kiera got shoo'd out pretty bad, but since they didn't really know Cassandra that makes sense.

Also, it does kind of put a damper on Rapunzel's "I know you're still my friend" stuff when Cass straight up tries to murder her three times in quick succession rather than bother trying to talk to her.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 26th 2020 at 1:11:18 AM

I have yet to see the special, but maybe they're trying to set up something on how killing Cassandra, no matter how heartbreaking it is, is necessary.

Going by future episode titles/synopses it seems Cassandra will eventually be good again.

Agreed. I think it's been established that Zhan Tiri IS the ghost girl and that Cassandra unwittingly freed him. This of course might help Cassandra realize the error of her ways.

But yeah Zhan Tiri is fucking scary

Going by the latest episode, the Ghost Girl is Zhan Tiri. It's pretty much as good as confirmed. During the fourth incantation, we see her face take the shadow of a goat's head in the flashes of light. Then she references being released from her prison, presumably the one Demanitus sealed her in.

Cassandra's character is making me think of the latest Star Wars movie and about how you effectively write a tragic villain who you actually want to see redeemed. This series succeeds at it with both Cass and Varian while the new Star Wars movies failed spectacularly at it with Kylo Ren, and I'm trying to get a grip on where the distinction lies. I think it ultimately comes down to two things: first, unlike Kylo Ren, we've actually gotten to know Cassandra as a good person and have seen her have a genuine friendship with Rapunzel, warts and all. We actually have good memories of them together. Second, we know in concrete, even somewhat relatable terms exactly why Cassandra turned against her friends and chose to pursue the path she's on, whereas Kylo Ren's motivations remain murky and rather nonsensical until the very end.

If Cassandra stays evil and dies without redemption, I'll view her as a tragic character. In Kylo Ren's case, I'd have viewed it as entirely appropriate.

Edited by DrDougsh on Jan 27th 2020 at 3:34:39 AM

I'm thinking that the Ghost Girl is indeed Zhan Tiri's real appearance. The big intimidating demon is probably just a One-Winged Angel form or something.

Edited by M84 on Jan 29th 2020 at 4:34:45 AM

Also, a funny detail I noticed: It looks like the latest episode kind of canonized Eugene's quip at the end of the movie where he says that after years of asking, he "finally said yes" to a proposal from Rapunzel. At least, she did come pretty close to popping the question on her own.

There's also the fact that with VADER we initially only saw him as a monster. Then the twist happened and you see that everything's out of order now. You wonder how he could have become so evil....at which point Return pulls the mask back and reveals the self loathing man that's Vader's core

Edited by LordYAM on Jan 28th 2020 at 1:21:34 AM

In Cassandra's case, there is also a nice case of Cassandra having only hurt the people who wants her back and could forgive her, as opposed to Kylo who, according to the movies, slaughtered an entire academy of Jedi in training and then went on to serve an organization responsible for many more atrocities. So far, Cassandra's trespasses have been limited in scope.

In Varian's case, the age thing actually works, as well as the isolation ? At 14, it's easier to believe that Varian wasn't able to process his grief and accept responsibility, and when you compound the fact that he's all alone in his evacuated village, surrounded by black rocks, it gets even easier. One gets the impression that things could have gone more smoothly had anyone checkup up on him after the storm.

I tend to hesitate on the "Varian did what he did because he was 14 and didn't know any better" angle, because that never at any point comes up as a reason or explanations for Varian's actions in the actual story, and was something adopted by the fans in order to remove some of the agency from his actions.

Regardless of whether he's literally 14 or not, if the story doesn't treat him as too young to be responsible for his decisions then he's not too young for it.

Varian though, is one of the best Face Heel Turns I've seen in animation, especially recently: a good example of a legitimately good character having legitimate reasons for turn dark, but still being wrong and petty for doing so to a degree, and his eventually realizing it and becoming The Atoner was also a good choice (though it bugs me that we still haven't seen what Quirin feels about all of it).

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 28th 2020 at 3:54:16 AM

https://www.instagram.com/p/B713nXIHaaw/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_mid=2AB3B139-CE95-4705-AC8C-72315E0E93F9

Eden Espinosa mentioned that she and Jeremy Jordan recorded their song together, one of the few confirmed cases of actors on the show recording together. It definitely helped out here.

I love how the animators didn't bother animating the Ghost Child to seem demure and reserved any more, and just had her straight up barely hiding that she's bad news anymore.

Seriously, she had some of the best character animations in the whole episode.

This right here is the face of someone who's really glad they don't have to pretend to be nice any more.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 29th 2020 at 9:58:31 AM

And some of those creepy expressions were directed at someone she is trying to convince of her "good" intentions.

I guess when you're that close to accomplishing your goal, it's hard to maintain your composure.

Edited by M84 on Jan 30th 2020 at 2:26:09 AM