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IniuriaTalis Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Dec 8th 2019 at 7:52:12 PM

[up][up]He wasn't bad in TFA which recognized that he's a loser, but TLJ was in love with him and expected you to be too and made him unbearable.

I'll give the MHA villains this: even though they're sympathetic, the narrative never pretends that means they're good people or that their virtues outweigh their crimes.

[up]Yeah, that's just anti-Endeavor hyperbole.

Edited by IniuriaTalis on Dec 8th 2019 at 10:54:24 AM

Bocaj Funny, but not helpful from Here Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny, but not helpful
Dec 8th 2019 at 7:52:49 PM

TLJ recognized he was a loser too as I recall

My original fictions and Essential Avengers liveblog
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
Dec 8th 2019 at 8:01:51 PM

The ironic part is that people hate Rey

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
IniuriaTalis Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Dec 8th 2019 at 8:03:17 PM

[up][up][up]And yet every character in the movie was either irrelevant or had their whole beings revolve entirely around him. Including Rey, who ignored her friends the whole time to pine over the guy who murdered one and enslaved another.

But that's what I really like about how MHA handles redemption: nobody's going to just randomly fall for you and decide to make it their mission to turn you onto the straight and narrow. It's always self-driven after someone sees the consequences of their actions, whether it's Endeavor recognizing the pain he put his family through or Bakugou realizing how his meanness and anger were holding him back from becoming a real, strong hero.

Edited by IniuriaTalis on Dec 8th 2019 at 11:05:39 AM

Hobgoblin Cool Blue Magic from Jylland Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Cool Blue Magic
IniuriaTalis Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Dec 8th 2019 at 8:26:37 PM

Yes but now he limits it to comic relief moments. tongue

asterism Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Dec 8th 2019 at 8:33:08 PM

[up][up] Not when he's on the clock, as it were. Though he's still kinda gruff.

Actually, I think he mainly just snaps at Deku these days.

Existence
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
Dec 8th 2019 at 8:34:38 PM

I do like that about Endeavor and Bakugo's changes; they don't just suddenly become nicer people and lose their old traits. They're both still plenty arrogant and hot-headed, but they've at least recognized how that attitude has affected their lives negatively and make an active effort to check themselves.

[up] Deku and Todoroki are the only ones he still treats pretty badly, but that's mostly because they're his only his competition for the top.

And he just literally tried to kill Deku simply because Kirishima complimented him last chapter :V

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Dec 8th 2019 at 11:35:56 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
asterism Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Dec 8th 2019 at 8:37:01 PM

clearly he was jealous

Existence
slimcoder Insane Religious Murderbot
Insane Religious Murderbot
Dec 8th 2019 at 8:39:16 PM

Oh my God it was Kirishima who complimented him.

Damn he was jealous but not in the usual way.

Nobody is innocent, there are merely varying levels of guilt. Oh and Primus hates you.
Dec 8th 2019 at 8:43:22 PM

I can understand given the series nature and themes wanting to see the villains saved instead of just defeated, but I do think there's a problem of people putting saving them ahead of saving the people they are actively trying to harm.

For Dabi in particular, though, I think the dissonance might be the biggest. Like, assuming he is who we all think he is, unlike all of the others he wasn't just attacking a bunch of random kids, he knew that one of them was his own younger brother. The younger brother whose hardships he should be able to understand better than anyone, seeing as he probably went through them first. And not only did he try and fry him without a second thought, he also took the time to taught him about not being able to save friend right in front of him.

How is this not a huge sticking point against him being sympathetic to the same people who won't be satisfied until Endeavor is dead and cheered on Kotaro's death?

Edited by LSBK on Dec 8th 2019 at 10:47:40 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
Dec 8th 2019 at 8:49:59 PM

[up][up] I'm surprised nobody actually commented on it; its the most aggressive he's been with Deku in a while, and he didn't even do anything this time. It's literally because Kirishima complimented him lol.

I will take that and run with it

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Saiga Helpful & reliable Pope of Bleach & DB threads from Sunny Australia Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Helpful & reliable Pope of Bleach & DB threads
Dec 8th 2019 at 8:51:28 PM

It's simple math:

Dabi is abused by Endeavor, which is bad (poor dabi)

We already know that Endeavour is THE WORST because he abused shoto (the most heinous act imaginable)

Therefore it's okay for dabi to abuse shoto

I am not a crackpot

Edited by Saiga on Dec 9th 2019 at 2:53:38 AM

I'm watching Dragonball GT & sharing my thoughts on my blog!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
Dec 8th 2019 at 9:00:57 PM

You're joking, but that's kind of crackshit theory some of these fans operate under.

"See, it's ok for me to be a mass murderer because my daddy abused me. It's my daddy's fault, so I am in no way culpable for the actions that I take. Because my daddy abused me."

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Dec 8th 2019 at 9:04:49 PM

Also, I thought it was weird that the Shirakumo stuff was covered in the spin-off to begin with, but now with this revelation it's even weirder.

asterism Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Dec 8th 2019 at 9:05:36 PM

No but it was all Endeavor's fault somehow. Because reasons, shut up.

Existence
fasoman1996 When they taste the Divine Fury from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
When they taste the Divine Fury
Dec 8th 2019 at 9:38:42 PM

Endeavor was abusive because Ujiko secretly manipulated him into his master eugenics plot to make a Todoroki nomu wild mass guesswild mass guess

Living in the dankest timeline
RebelFalcon Fed up with humanity from sleeping in your bed Relationship Status: Abstaining
Fed up with humanity
Dec 8th 2019 at 11:43:57 PM

[up][up][up]It's likely trying to pay homage to American comic books where the buildup to an event in the main series comic takes place in tie in issues.

I'm surprised nobody actually commented on it
What am I, chopped liver?
How is this not a huge sticking point against him being sympathetic to the same people who won't be satisfied until Endeavor is dead and cheered on Kotaro's death?
Cause people are suckers for a sob story and because they can find people responsible for that sob story available to pin all the blame on, they'll do so. It's the entire basis behind Draco in Leather Pants, in which the page image is freaking Sephiroth, the guy who slaughtered Nibelheim and murdered Aerith in front of Cloud's eyes yet is treated like he's a full on angel by some people. You take a dash of Unintentionally Sympathetic, a pinch of Evil Is Sexy, and a dab of Misaimed Fandom, you get the situation with the LOV.

Personally, I think its possible to sympathize with the LOV without whitewashing them. I'm basically applying Cry for the Devil to them. The only way I see any of them being saved is either by being stopped and arrested, or put out of their misery. And I can sympathize with Endeavor too because he's got enough self awareness to see he fucked up and is actually making an effort to, if not be forgiven, just make amends and stay out of his families life. Kotaro's my only exception, and for the sake of not going nuts again, I'll just say with him he didn't come across as sympathetic to me.

Edited by RebelFalcon on Dec 8th 2019 at 2:56:34 PM

It's Falcon, not Faction! I named myself after Shun Kurosaki after all!
devak They call me.... Prophet Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
They call me.... Prophet
Dec 8th 2019 at 11:50:49 PM

I think it's interesting because Bakugo basically has 3 things going on at once: He doesn't like Izuku blabbering about quirks, he especially doesn't like it when Izuku goes on about OFA, and he's probably jealous. (and just petty).

The funniest parts are the revelation that even his decorative items are sharp (not just knees to kill with) and that even a headwound won't stop Izuku from blabbering about his quirk.

As to Rey/Kylo and TLJ, TLJ is basically a scathing mocking of the old starwars "you can save him, there's still light in him" or "well it's your cosmic duty" tropes. Kylo thinks he's the chosen one and rey must obviously thus fall for him, Rey thinks she's the chosen one and thus obviously can just remind Kylo of his humanity and save him like the old stories. And it absolutely does not work for either of them.

Also, TLJ doesn't hide the fact that Kylo is pathetic. It may seem like it's all about him, but it's ultimately hollow. He's not a good commander, or a good emperor, and he's not a good person. The fight against Luke (and the buildup to it) really shows what the movie thinks of him: he can't even beat someone who isn't there, and he's so unhinged that Hux must tell his troops to stop firing because it obviously was pointless.

Edited by devak on Dec 8th 2019 at 8:57:33 PM

slimcoder Insane Religious Murderbot
Insane Religious Murderbot
Dec 9th 2019 at 1:35:37 AM

Ya know this whole DILP thing just reminded of another example, the Germa 66 from One Piece.

Like I've seen people go "Oh you can't hate them cause they were experimented from birth to feel no emotion. It's not their fault" or stuff along those lines.

This is despite the fact that they are currently fully-grown adults and remorseless assassins who kill whoever they want & treat everyone like shit just because they are so full of themselves. One is even sadistic enough to beat his cook within an inch of her life, disfiguring her just to piss off his white sheep brother & then openly laughing about it once he finds out.

They are one-note assholes, like very one-note almost caricature in their vileness yet people will use that little experimented from the womb backstory to help them go "You can't blame them or completely hate them" even though they show no redeemable traits at all.

I'm like, at what point can people be held responsible for their actions & not have them excused?

Edited by slimcoder on Dec 9th 2019 at 1:36:02 AM

Nobody is innocent, there are merely varying levels of guilt. Oh and Primus hates you.
Dec 9th 2019 at 1:38:13 AM

I feel like the issue there is more on Oda for deliberately writing things that way (and not even being consistent about it) than people acknowledging that, no, they Germa Brothers really don't have moral agency.

devak They call me.... Prophet Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
They call me.... Prophet
Dec 9th 2019 at 1:45:05 AM

I don't follow the OP fandom but people like Germa? The nazi assholes? They were made to be machines but they go out of their way to be cruel.

Dec 9th 2019 at 1:47:29 AM

I don't recall seeing many people satisfied with how that whole plotline concluded, no.

slimcoder Insane Religious Murderbot
Insane Religious Murderbot
Dec 9th 2019 at 1:51:44 AM

Well everyone flat-out despises the father, helped by the fact he is ugly.

His kids though do have something of a fandom. Helps that they are all "pretty" even if they all look tacky & garish due to the Power Rangers colors.

I mean the girl is easy to understand why. She's pretty & nice, its basic reasoning. The boys though are more tricky in why anyone could like them beyond the very shallow reasons like a hot voice actor.

Edited by slimcoder on Dec 9th 2019 at 1:53:11 AM

Nobody is innocent, there are merely varying levels of guilt. Oh and Primus hates you.

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