Needs Help (New Crowner 8/18/13): Stop Helping Me

Page action crowner might be a good idea.

Exactly what I was thinking.

I mostly see the split in @3.

Well, I've tried. If anyone wants to clean up the descriptions a bit, go ahead.

edited 16th Jul '13 5:45:02 AM by MikuruFan

I've downvoted the three way split because I question the distinction between the two objective forms.

Crowner's hooked.

Supporting the two-way option. It's also the most convenient since the subjective Video Game section is "firm" split (more than "soft" split but less than "hard" split).

If we split this 2-ways where do we draw the line on Video Game examples?

edited 16th Jul '13 8:58:18 AM by m8e

Which line?

What's In-Universe(and objective) and not in games.

Like this example, is it YMMV, where does it go?

• Monty Python and the Holy Grail, the video game, had the option to ask for help at any time from Terry Jones. At first his hints are almost useful, but eventually he just gets more and more infuriated as the game progresses, tired of helping you. Eventually he stomps out of the game and is replaced by Michael Palin, who is just as useless. Monty Python's Complete Waste of Time, having no plot at all, had no help and no rules, except when you broke them. You were then sent to "The Penalty Box" where a nude Terry Jones played a taunting organ piece to mock you.

edited 16th Jul '13 10:19:39 AM by m8e

I'm also curious what to do with TabletopGame.Gloom - you win by making your own characters as miserable as possible and guiding them to the well-earned respite of peaceful death, and hence doing the reverse for those of your opponents is a critical part of the game.

That'd be objective, I think. I have no idea if it's an inversion of subversion or what, so I'd just label it "played with" and call it a day.

How did I vote already if I hadn't been on this thread since the crowner was put up? Or posted nothing in here before this.

Don't worry about it and just try to vote anyway. The display is messed up.

16 to 1 for two-way. Let's call it now and start coming up with names for the new trope.

Which one is the 'new' one?

As long as we're doing this work, we should probably rename Stop Helping Me to something that isn't a Stock Phrase. So we actually need two new names IMHO.

I agree that two new names would be the best solution. Stop Helping Me could be turned into a disambiguation page.

Unwanted Assistance and Annoying Exposition Fairy? Unwanted Game Assistance? ...I don't like either of the latter two much.

Works.

We could use Unwanted Assistance or something like it for the objective ones ("Never try to save my live again."). For the "friendlies blow up ship you had to disable" gaming annoyances, I'm thinking something like Counterproductive AI Helper. Some of the other examples (for instance, the situation depicted in the StopHelpingMe.Video Games page image) actually belong on other tropes like Continue Your Mission, Dammit!.

edited 19th Jul '13 8:25:38 AM by StarSword

Called crowner in favor of the split into two.

I think the current description with some cleanup could apply to the video game trope.

Who's writing a description for the objective trope?

Edit: Reading through the examples, there's a New Media section that's about users finding the program's help annoying. Some real life examples apply too. What should we do with those?

edited 19th Jul '13 9:23:19 PM by MikuruFan

These New Media examples look like examples of the Audience Reaction. I'd be fine with removing them.

I do not know about a new description for the objective trope; maybe

''A character gets enough "help" that eventually, they ask the helpers to stop helping.

Reasons can vary, maybe when trying to scare off the fly on the wall the helper made a big hole in it''

The New Media examples can go with the subjective trope in a non-video game section.

Alright, let's come up with more names. I'll set up a crowner eventually.