Ensemble Dark Horse Cleanup

Does her redemption arc involve any befriending? 'Cause that would be funny.

Anyway, as the example is written I don't think it qualifies. It doesn't compare her popularity with anyone else, nor explain how minor of a character she is.

Found these on Xenoblade Chronicles 2:

• The Tirkin on Bionis didn't have much characterization at all save for being expendable Mooks. Here, they're given speaking roles, and in the process, often steal the show.
• The Ardainian Soldier NPCs, largely for their memorable combat dialogue. Captain Padraig in particular stands ever so slightly above his mostly nameless comrades.

edited 17th Jun '18 6:18:56 PM by MasterJoseph

The first one looks like misuse. I don't see how it's an example at all.

The second doesn't provide any relevant context. The only thing remotely close to it is that the named character stands out more than the unnamed ones, but that's fairly self-evident and expected, and far from what the trope requires.

Various Harvest Moon pages list the most popular bachelor/ettes under Ensemble Dark Horse. Do they really count since they're love interests, not minor characters?

edited 19th Jun '18 5:53:42 PM by Pichu-kun

As I see it, Ensemble Dark Horse depends on a character's role in the story in relation to their overall popularity with the fandom, so a secondary character who isn't the main can qualify if their popularity absolutely eclipses every other character.

With Harvest Moon, I'd say specific love interests are fine if they are demonstrably vastly more popular than the other love interests. Quite a few examples on some of the pages though are poorly written and don't mention the popularity bit at all. Looking at the Harvest Moon: A Wonderful Life page:

• After Another Wonderful Life came out, Marlin became the favorite amongst most fans compared to the other two spouses.
• Nami. She makes an appearance in Magical Melody in person and on TV as the weather girl.
• Flora. Some players were disappointed that you were not able to marry her even in Special Edition.
• Your child, moreover the mechanics surrounding them. Unlike previous and some later titles, your child can grow up past a toddler and finish as an adult. Not to mention that they can have their own personality depending on who you married and how you raised them.

I'd say only the first example really qualifies. The Nami and Flora examples don't state how big they are in the fandom and the child example just looks like it's describing the game mechanics without any concern for the child's popularity among fans.

I want to clean up Star Wars Rebels:

• Lando Calrissian: might be too major to count
• Wilhuff Tarkin: might be too major
• Ahsoka Tano: likely too major
• Rex and the other retired Clone Troopers: Rex is likely to major, not sure about the others
• The "Old Master": might be too major
• Thrawn: Heavily advertised Big Bad, definitely too major and example of misuse that may pervade the page.
• The Bendu: likely too major given they were in the advertisement

For/against any of the cuts?

'For' all the cuts. Though I'm not 100 percent sure how the trope is supposed to be applied to characters making a minor appearance in a larger shared setting where they're more prominent.

Edited by nrjxll on Jul 15th 2018 at 9:42:49 AM

Found this on Cells at Work!: The Platelets were popular candidates for this during serialization thanks to their adorable scout-like attitudes, but their appearances in the anime brought an influx of fans. Their Leader in particular was loved enough to star on covers with the main cast, eventually getting one all to herself and her fellow workers.

SHALL I SHRED IT?!:?

Also on Animal Crossing:

• Quite a few of the potential villagers who could live in your town. It really depends on their personality and how cute or cool they look though:
  • Lazy villagers are particularly popular due to their very friendly and amicable personalities. Some examples include Stitches the cub (who resembles a patchwork teddy bear), Lucky the mummy dog, Zucker the octopus, Drago (an alligator who resembles an Eastern dragon), Filbert the squirrel, Bob and Punchy (both of which are cats, the former is believed to be the first villager ever created), and Beau and Erik (deer).
  • As far as species are concerned, some are more popular then others. Familiar animals such as wolves, cats, rabbits, dogs, deer, sheep, bears (both cubs and regular), hamsters, frogs, and squirrels are popular enough that players will try to fill their town with nothing but these species. Deer appear to be the most wanted since every single deer villager appears somewhere on the list.
  • Octopuses are also popular because there are only four of them in the entire series (Marina (Normal), Zucker (Lazy), Octavian (Cranky), and Inkwell (Jock)).
  • While ostriches aren't the most familiar animals, they’re generally well-liked due to their creative designs, which often incorporate elements of other, more familiar birds (e.g. Flora looks like a flamingo).

Edited by MasterJoseph on Jul 18th 2018 at 2:50:30 AM

No idea what that first one is about.

The AC one is just a list of characters who may or may not be popular with certain players. Ensemble Dark Horse by definition can only be a few characters at most, since if you just have a generally popular cast, no one stands out.

Which ones should I cut.

The Cells at Work one refers to a group.

Edited by MasterJoseph on Jul 18th 2018 at 3:30:52 AM

The Clone Wars and Rebels have their own pages, but also have listings under EnsembleDarkHorse.Star Wars and EnsembleDarkhorse.Star Wars Expanded Universe. Should I replace them with links to the pages?

Darth Maul, Jango Fett, General Grievous were too heavily proceeded, so unless anyone objects to cutting... Darth Sidious is the Big Bad so I'd cut but since they spend little time in that persona...

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Jul 29th 2018 at 3:11:04 AM

Those are too heavy characters to fit. They're clearly not darkhorses.

What about replacing the duplicate pages I mentioned?

Haven't checked those. Do they detail the same characters from the same works, or same characters in different works?

The same characters from the same works.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Jul 31st 2018 at 11:20:10 AM

Then it's redundant.

I'm pretty certain EnsembleDarkhorse.Sonic The Hedgehog is full of non-examples. They're too major to be darkhorses.

• Shadow - He was never a minor character. He was supposed to only be in Adventure 2 iirc, but he's still the focus of the game.
• Blaze - Major character.
• Metal Sonic - Major character.
• Fang - Major character.
• Chaotix - Major characters.
• Mephiles - Major character.
• Omega - Major character.
• Gamma - Major character? I never cared about him, but I'm pretty sure he's a reoccuring character.
• Tikal and Shade - They probably count.
• Orbot - Major character.
• Cream - Major character.
• Honey - Counts.
• Tiara - We don't trope What Could Have Been.
• Merlina - Unfamiliar with her, but she's apparently the villain of one title.
• Pickle - Can't remember him, but seems major.
• Sally, Cosmo, & Bunnie - Major character.
• Cyan Wisp - Probably counts,
• Infinite - Major character.
• Avatar - Major character.

Edited by Pichu-kun on Aug 4th 2018 at 2:55:43 AM

Gamma, Tikal, and Shade are all very important to the stories they're in. Tikal shows up more in the background, but she's no minor player and is in quite a few cutscenes. She's also basically the hint helper within the game. She's like Navi, except actually important to the story itself.

Rest you already got noted quite well.

Cutting this from Gihren's Greed due to a lack of context: Some game-exclusive Mobile Suits like Casval's (Char) custom Gundam.

Cutting this from Double Dragon: Jimmy, for being a snarky tough guy voiced by Scott McNeil.

• Many of the minor Dragon Warriors are decently liked for at least having personalities and flaws, unlike Billy.

Jimmy is a main character, while the above mentioned dragon warriors are a group.

Cutting this from Phantasy Star IV as she's a main character: Rika. Helps that's she's an Expy of (or was actually supposed to be) another darkhorse of the series.

,,For the sake of non-unilateral edits, I agree with those.

Question; since Ensemble Darkhorse is supposed to be a minor character who receives unexpected popularity. So when writing an example, does said example need to actually mention that the character is a minor character?

Because a lot of the examples I’ve seen, even the ones using it correctly, are only mentioning the character’s popularity – which I feel is contributing to tropers listing any character with popularity regardless of how major or minor they are.

A character's prominence in the work (and advertising) is relevant context, and should be included.

And yeah, not having enough context in examples is a major contributor to shoehorns and misunderstanding of what the trope is. For any trope.

So If I were to see an example that only mentioned the character's popularity, would the correct thing to do be to comment out the example, leave an edit reason explaining why with a link to this thread and message the person who added the example (assuming the person is still active)?