Marvel Comics General

This is much more apt and reasonable than what I was trying to say.

I'm not saying it's bad at all, I'm just stating that it's been criticized for making the issue a bigger deal than it really is when there are a lot of diseases that are far more common and deadlier.

Edited by HamburgerTime on Apr 17th 2019 at 10:36:29 AM

When did Steve ever try to stay above the fray? He very frequently is outspokenly opinionated

He’s told the US government to go fuck themselves like five times

Yeah, but that's getting into the Appeal to Worse Problems fallacy.

Edited by alliterator on Apr 17th 2019 at 8:40:28 AM

Sam Wilson's run as Captain America was awesome and all about facing RL issues in an exaggerated comic book style. Mind you, there was a great moment in it that was a Batman Gambit which I felt like got tricked. A bunch of corporate executives have been hiring the Serpent Society and after Sam takes them down, he basically is just EXHAUSTED.

So, he says, "Listen, I know you're all going to deny everything. You'll hide behind lawyers and fight this for years until people don't care anymore. So I'm going to offer you a deal. Give me that guy who is the man responsible for most of it, all of you together, and tesitfy against him and I won't spend years harrassing each of you."

So they do, getting the CEO of Roxxon put in prison with no chance of escape.

Spencer said that it would also lead to him cutting a deal against them but he didn't have space to mention that. It was Sam just using the Prisoner's Dilemma against them.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Apr 17th 2019 at 8:41:56 AM

To be fair I think most people would say "fuck the government" if it turned out out to be run by a cult of snake people.

He once, in a fairly in character What If story told the American people their flag was garbage because they were garbage people

Steve is always yelling his opinions at people

He loves speechifying and he loves shouting opinions at people even when they’re bad opinions

Edited by Bocaj on Apr 17th 2019 at 11:43:59 AM

Spencer has said that Sam Wilson got to be a Hero with Bad Publicity as Captain America in-universe solely because he was black with his opinions not that different than what Cap said generally. However, he was suddenly the "radical Angry Black Man Captain America" because of the audience's racism.

Spencer also said that, ironically, that was something he didn't expect to get an identical reaction from w/ fans.

So it was taken as a Take That! against fandom.

Dramatic Irony, huh?

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Apr 17th 2019 at 8:44:21 AM

After Valkyrie announcement i'm withdrawing of Thor related books because seriously i'm legit becoming fed up Jason Aaron milking Jane as a Creator's Pet / Escapist Character / Character Shilling to death at the levels of Roman Reigns circa 2015-2018 X-Pac Heat by stuffing Brunnhilde since Aaron did this antic twice with his previous run with her if you thought Carol becoming Captain Marvel's shilling was this bad.

Cap as a fuddy duddy who tried to represent all of America, I think, is something some people try to claim but never really took off in the comics. He was invented by a dude who actually fought against Nazis and got death threats for drawing his superhero socking Hitler in the jaw.

Unless that's not what's being argued and I pulled that out of my butt in which case whoops.

What are you talking about?

Edited by Bocaj on Apr 17th 2019 at 11:45:39 AM

alliterator (In response to your wall of text on the previous page)

1) Cap didnt play it close to the vest, as he was an outspoken Liberal (when not written by Mark Millar), so Spencer's already got that wrong. As well, Falcon was even more outspoken than he was, so his having to "step up" and "actually stand for something" is exactly what I was getting at with Spencer trying to sound "woke" by implying that he was the first to do so.

2) Nice speech, but doesn't really disprove anything. So the book is "about something". Ok. But does it have something to say other than "I have something to say"? How does Sam actually accomplish these goals he is setting out to achieve? Does he even? If a book is going to actually delve into deep topics like inequality, racism, and the division in America today, it's conclusions being nothing more than "these things bad" is kind of a big copout.

3) As for the book being more "realistic" because "the real world doesn't have easy answers"... news flash, this is a superhero comic, a fantasy where people fight werewolves and cyborgs: "realism" is the cowards answer.

Charles

That wasn't the president of Roxxon. Roxxon's president is a Minotaur, remember? So really, he got some nobody. And we can only judge what was on the page, so no, Sam never went after them again. (also, really? couldn't put in a text balloon mentioning he's gonna go after them? bs)

Funny, I've just started getting into Aaron's stuff. I read his God Butcher/Godbomb story over the weekend with art by Hickman's boon-companion Esad Ribic, and it was awesome. I also read the issue where Jane Thor fought the Mangog (one of my faves of Kirby's Thor work).

In Sam Wilson: Captain America, the essential plot of the short-lived series was that Sam Wilson becomes Captain America and addresses the nation in a big speech about what needs to be changed.

He is then hated by ALL OF (white) AMERICA afterward seemingly.

People hate him and call him a fake Captain America as he fights corrupt corporations, police brutality, and so on.

Sam commenting that he didn't say anything Steve hadn't.

True, Spencer said that off-panel so maybe it's not canon but I still think it was clever that Sam got a slam dunk on their boss. D As do these kind of tricks all the time.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Apr 17th 2019 at 8:48:23 AM

Jane's getting a new comic as Valkyrie.

They couldn't name her Stormbreaker or War Goddess?

She's not even a Valkyrie.

I don't even dislike Jane as Thor but I feel like they're trying way too hard.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Apr 17th 2019 at 8:49:53 AM

I think Valkyrie dies in whatever event is going on right now.

I feel ok about that

Edited by Bocaj on Apr 17th 2019 at 11:51:25 AM

Valkyrie is an Order like Green Lanterns, so she is a Valkyrie and not "the" Valkyrie.

I wonder if Dani Moonstar is still a Valkyrie

I would disagree since comics saying, "Police Brutality is a thing", "Black Men unfairly get arrested for doing nothing other than being black", and "We should stand against this stuff" is a fairly serious set of stands. They're self-obvious stands to someone who isn't a scumbag but plenty of people are.

I felt Sam Wilson's story arc was perhaps TOO full of Bittersweet Ending and "Shaggy Dog" Story tales, though.

I think Rage was handled amazingly, though. I also like Falcon and Misty Knight.

This might be blasphemy but I think I like the new artist of Unbeatable Squirrel Girl more than Erica Henderson.

It's more typically cute but I think it breathes better.

I think part of the problem with that take is that nobody comes out happy. People who already strongly believe that those are injustices get mad because Sam doesn't do much to stop them other than sort of highlight they exist.

alliterator bringing up Captain Falcon using his bird powers to spy on the Americops is great and the comic should have been more of that.

Edited by RodimusMinor on Apr 17th 2019 at 11:56:32 AM

As for "what the book was about" — again, what is any book about? It's about Sam Wilson's struggles to overcome the issues that plague both him and minorities in America, with various degrees of success. There doesn't have to be some deeper meaning to everything.

Also, Jane Foster is getting powers again? Sweet. I loved her run as Thor. This spoils the second issue of War of the Realms — it looks like yes, Brunnhilde is dead, although she's been dead before and come back, so I'm not sure if this will stick. In any case, the Jane Valkyrie comic is being written by Jason Aaron and Al Ewing, so it's an automatic buy for me.

Edited by alliterator on Apr 17th 2019 at 9:00:06 AM

Sam struggles but he doesn't really do or solve anything, is the thing.

You ever read DC: The New Frontier by Darwyn Cooke. It's stunning and brilliant and gorgeous and other nice words, and also reminds us that being black in the 50s fucking sucked by having its literal sole black character get lynched by the Klan in an unrelated plot to the main event. The Justice League get to fight a big alien, John Henry fucking dies. And for what?

Oh shit Al Ewing's doing this? I gotta give it a look at least. Immortal Hulk is baller.

Edited by RodimusMinor on Apr 17th 2019 at 12:00:40 PM