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BetaRay Web Slinger/Hope Bringer Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Web Slinger/Hope Bringer
Jun 7th 2012 at 8:09:23 AM

A thread for all the miscellaneous Marvel discussion that doesn't have it's own thread.

So apparently, they're making a Black Panther movie. Let's hope Hudlin is kept as far away as possible. On a related note, anyone think that the whole 'Super Hero that is also a King/Ruler' is kind of ridiculous? I mean where do heroes like Aquaman and T'Challa find the time to both lead a nation and go gallavanting on the other side of the globe?

edited 7th Jun '12 4:03:00 PM by BetaRay

You are not alone, and you are not strange. You are you, and everyone has damage. Be the better person.
Jun 7th 2012 at 3:23:40 PM

It's an old folklore concept that a King is also 50% cooler if they're also an adventurer. Even if they should be running their country.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
BetaRay Web Slinger/Hope Bringer Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Web Slinger/Hope Bringer
Jun 7th 2012 at 4:07:08 PM

True enough, but I doubt that the movie-going public would be accepting of that. Maybe the whole movie will just take place in Wakanda.

You are not alone, and you are not strange. You are you, and everyone has damage. Be the better person.
AtomJames I need a drink
I need a drink
Jun 7th 2012 at 7:31:27 PM

Well where does Tony find time to run a multi-billion dollar company, create and test run suit upon suit of armour and be a superhero on top of that? He doesn't. He obviously has people like Pepper to help him out. Only stands to reason that someone with T'Challa's resources and duties would have people helping him too.

Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.
Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
Jun 8th 2012 at 6:40:53 PM

Something occurred to me. Wakanda under Kirby was a xenophobic state that didn't trust anybody. Priest went further and introduced a bunch of tribes who hate each other that Panther has to keep under control. Huldin gave them the cure for cancer, made them withhold it and added some not so subtle racist overtones. Yet despite all this, Panther and Wakanda are supposed to be on the side of good.

Yet everyone has a fit when ever Doctor Doom does anything remotely evil besides maybe try to kill the Fantastic Four and even then there is a limit on how he can do it. Doom would never lie to get an advantage over Richards! It's not like his whole backstory isn't based on a lie or anything! Latveria can't be anything short of a paradise and all the rebels against Doom have to be even worse than he is, which isn't hard these days.

Since he's so whitewashed why not have our benevolent Doom takeover Earth which he clearly knows how to run better, rub out that free will because Doom's smarter than everyone and turn Earth into a Doom bot paradise? Since they are so intent on ignoring the Demon in Noble Demon might as well let him make the changes he wants, it'd top Reed Richards Is Useless and every supposed defeat being Actually A Doom Bot.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Relationship Status: Brony
Jun 8th 2012 at 7:32:16 PM

[up] Doom has conquered the Earth. He got bored of ruling the planet and let himself be defeated.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas
I see the Awesomeness.
Jun 8th 2012 at 10:13:21 PM

Presumably, the kingdom doesn't need that much guidance and the King position is mostly a trouble shooting position.

Fight smart, not fair.
Jun 8th 2012 at 11:39:20 PM

[up][up][up]

I've been wanting to talk about this with someone for a while but I was afraid I was going to be stoned to death.

To me Doom is not really cool because of that, a Villain has to do badass evil things to be cool and a hero has to do awesome heroish things to be fun. Doom might be badass but really I don't want to use that terrible term wich starts with an M and ends with ary Sue but that's what I think he is lately because of all the doom cult around him and yet he doesn't do anything interesting besides standing there being a large ham and occasionally appearing as a secondary character. It almost seems that the writes are scared of using him and then getting burned by a mob or something.

I don't have much knowledge about the character but I'm sure he used to do SOMETHING and I do know that something similar has happened to Magneto of wich I DO know about since I'm primarily an x-men reader(I'm not necessarily talking about Morrison's Neto, while I liked his run I understand people being mad about that).

I may be saying dumb things, Doom is a fantastic four villain and I don't read FF comics so he may be something more there but since people hype him so much as some kind of Marvel Universe Big Bad it annoys me. I think maybe marvel should focus on him with an event and then maybe kill him off or shake the status-quo of latveria beyond recognition or something. That's just my idea tough tongue

:)
Jun 9th 2012 at 2:16:20 AM

It's Doom's Genuis that make him a threat. One of the 8 Smartest people in the World. Able to use Science and Magic. Once stole the Beyonder's power.

VampireBuddha Hungry dinosaur from Ireland Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Hungry dinosaur
Jun 9th 2012 at 6:37:52 AM

Historically, it hasn't been unusual for a king to personally command his army in war, leaving a steward to actually run the country. A superhero king is simply the modern equivalent of that.

As for how Black Panther goes about it, two options immediately spring to mind:

  1. He appoints a competent prime minister to take the load off.
  2. Wakanda is actually a constitutional monarchy where most power resides with a democratically-elected government and the king is mostly a figurehead with little real power but plenty of money, which leaves him with time to dress up in a costume and fight evil.

AtomJames I need a drink
I need a drink
Jun 9th 2012 at 8:20:26 AM

[up][up]Wrong. Doom's genius is his weapon. His ambition is the threat.

Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.
BetaRay Web Slinger/Hope Bringer Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Web Slinger/Hope Bringer
Jun 9th 2012 at 8:55:54 AM

[up][up] That is acceptable, I guess.

You are not alone, and you are not strange. You are you, and everyone has damage. Be the better person.
Cider The Final ECW Champion from Not New York Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
The Final ECW Champion
Jun 9th 2012 at 3:54:59 PM

That doesn't change, he doesn't do anything really villainous besides harass Richards. He used to be the guy desperate to steal everyone's powers, no matter how useful you'd think they'd be to them, casually attempt to murder other country's citizens while claiming diplomatic immunity(it does not work that way) oh and was a lying backstabbing bastard. That was then, modern Doom is too honorable for all that.

I remember reading through hisAmazing Spider-man appearances for comparison, particularly the fights. First, he's clearly evil and dangerous but also petty and pretty fallible, only barely getting the upper hand on Spider-man by sheer amount of resources since he's used to fighting four people(who usually beat him and end up chasing him away from Spidey)

Next time they fight, Doom is this Implacable Man force of nature who's rampage puts Nothing Can Stop The Juggernaut to shame, Spider-man may as well be an arachnid flailing in the presence of an F15 but you see Doom's the good guy, he's only doing collateral damage while trying to catch a thief and Spider-man stuck his nose where it didn't belong...what? In his own book, Spider-man's accused of going overboard by the narrative for less crap. Isn't Doom himself a thief? Hasn't he also refused to pay a petty sum of 200 dollars when he owns a whole nation's economy?

People getting mad about Magneto being evil is a different topic(he was under the mutant hating sublime's control during Morrison's run blahblahblah). I get being racist/misogynist doesn't make sense with Doom's back story, but Doom being keeping to his word doesn't either and neither does him having an honor code or even being a particularly responsible ruler.

Kind of jarring given that his "Good Counterpart" has more flaws, more political and economic trouble and doesn't have doom bots to wash away setbacks. The sovereignty of Wakanda has come under question but not Latveria, it is virtually indestructible to conventional attack. In fact, Nick Fury sending a super human army there was deplorable because we're going to forget all the things he did in the past that should have instigated open war, Doom would never try to go back in time with the intent of grave robbing or to take over your country when it was barely a country or turn the Incredible Hulk into a slave weapon to use against you. He's totally innocent and in no way the leader of a rogue nation.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
Jun 10th 2012 at 8:03:39 PM

If your going to try to comprehend comics on any level, your going to need a very strong Fanon Discontinuity filter. Personally i like the more noble Doom because he's simply more interesting than the send baby's to hell doom.

SpaceJawa UTINNI! from Right Here
UTINNI!
Jun 11th 2012 at 1:08:45 AM

On a related note, anyone think that the whole 'Super Hero that is also a King/Ruler' is kind of ridiculous?

I have a bigger problem with how just about every major fictional nation/government of any prominence seems to be run by a king or emperor or dictator of some kind (DC or Marvel). It's even more irritating when they're all apparently superior in one way or another. Latveria was taken over by Doom; Wakanda is ruled by a king; Atlantis is ruled by a king; the Skrull, Shi'ar, and Kree Empires are all ruled by kings or emperors or a supercomputer; the Savage Land is ruled by Ka-Zar; etc.

I can give the Asgardians a pass, but that's only because it's in line with the Norse Mythology they're based off of.

Why is no one able to introduce a prominent fictional government that's run by a president or prime minister or something? Or am I missing something and someone did that already and I just missed it?

LMage Scion of the Dragon from Miss Robichaux's Academy Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Scion of the Dragon
Jun 11th 2012 at 7:26:13 AM

[up]

Technically, under Magneto Genosha was a republic.

edited 11th Jun '12 8:45:49 AM by LMage

"You are never taller then when standing up for yourself"
VampireBuddha Hungry dinosaur from Ireland Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Hungry dinosaur
Jun 11th 2012 at 9:16:38 AM

[up]Technically, Poland was a republic between 1945 and 1989. (Note: I have no idea what Genosha was like under Magneto; I'm just pointing out that 'peoples republics' exist).

Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Relationship Status: Brony
Jun 11th 2012 at 2:55:10 PM

One of the funniest things I ever saw in a comic was Namor lecturing someone on the evils of monarchy. Yes.

He was in Latveria, and Doom was presumed dead. A former Latverian noble had taken Doom's place, and was planning on overthrowing the last of Doom's government. Namor bitched him out for wanting to take over, replacing one king with another. Namor. Chewing someone out for monarchy. (It turned out the guy actually wanted to turn Latveria into a democratic republic, which Namor approved of. Because, of course, Prince Namor has always been about doing away with imperial trappings.)

Even for the '70s, I found that hilariously cheesy. Did the writer really not see how absurd that moment was?

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
Jun 12th 2012 at 10:58:03 AM

Actually, a superhero king makes sense—as does the fact that there are so many monarchies in comics. Comic book heroes are little more than a modern reinterpretation of feudal knights. It's about a group of exceptional people who have abilities/resources that most others don't and are granted quasi-governmental authority in return for being sworn to protect the common good.

LMage Scion of the Dragon from Miss Robichaux's Academy Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Scion of the Dragon
Jun 12th 2012 at 11:21:02 AM

[up]

One of the most fascinating things about Comic Books to me is the Hero/Civilian relations, something that Marvel almost always makes it a point to address. I like how, especially in recent years, Marvel has had equal parts glorification and disillusionment amongst the general populace, mirroring the doubtful under cuttings that often surrounded Knights. :P

If you think about it, this is the actual central conflict of the Marvel Civil War, The Idealized Knight/Hero image VS a more practical pragmatic vision of the system.

edited 12th Jun '12 2:15:37 PM by LMage

"You are never taller then when standing up for yourself"
Jun 12th 2012 at 1:55:22 PM

I dunno about practical and pragmatic. It's basically an attempt to dissolve the feudal lord dynamic of the superhero into the modern system. We can remove power from the people we give it to, whether it's removing a politician from office or discharging a soldier. Superheroes, on the other hand, we can do no such thing to, because by their very nature, we need them.

DrFurball Two-bit blockhead from The House of the Rising Sun Relationship Status: Tongue-tied
Two-bit blockhead
Jun 12th 2012 at 8:41:46 PM

Why is no one able to introduce a prominent fictional government that's run by a president or prime minister or something? Or am I missing something and someone did that already and I just missed it?
If I'm not mistaken, Cable was president of his own country during the events of Cable And Deadpool.

Weird in a Can (updated M-F)
AtomJames I need a drink
I need a drink
Jun 12th 2012 at 8:44:49 PM

[[quoteblock]] is no one able to introduce a prominent fictional government that's run by a president or prime minister or something? Or am I missing something and someone did that already and I just missed it?
If I'm not mistaken, Cable was president of his own country during the events of Cable & Deadpool.[[/quoteblock]]

~headdesks~

Please tell me that your memory is just a little off. Please.

Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.
DrFurball Two-bit blockhead from The House of the Rising Sun Relationship Status: Tongue-tied
Two-bit blockhead
Jun 12th 2012 at 9:22:24 PM

It probably is? It's been years since I've read the series. I know Cable had his own country, at least.

edited 12th Jun '12 9:23:01 PM by DrFurball

Weird in a Can (updated M-F)
AtomJames I need a drink
I need a drink
Jun 12th 2012 at 9:25:44 PM

That..that is the most ridiculous idea I ever heard. It puts the dick in ridiculous.

Theres sex and death and human grime in monochrome for one thin dime and at least the trains all run on time but they dont go anywhere.

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