Extreme violence should be cut too, as should racism

Yes, there is a double standard. Because Sex =/=Violence. They cannot be judged on the same level and should not. As it stands, right now the wiki is doing a purge of porn and related material, not violent material.

It is not the end of the fucking world.

So if we're not purging violence, why bring it up in the first place?

ask the op that.

Question was directed at any who care to answer.

More or less op's reasoning.

Overly Obscene works were banned for being socially reprehensible.

Overly Violent works (Guro) and racist works are also socially reprehensible. So they should also be banned.

In my opinion, you can't do much about racist works due to subjectivity. As for overly violent works, the will-eventually-be-made council will have decide what stays and goes. Some of them should definitely go.

edited 16th Apr '12 3:13:40 AM by encrypted12345

Once the council is formed and gets through all the pedo and rape and porn, violent works will have a look at.

I think violence doesn't hurt anyone.

I mean, fake violence.

Neither does fake sex.

Point being? I'm just wondering why we're taking an Americentric approach here. As in, https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RadarSystems compare US and UK/Europe here. Why are we going with the U Sian approach that consensual adult sex (past a certain point, which will be determined by "the council" rather than by member vote) is somehow at risk of getting a work page deleted if it's somehow determined "too much," and yet equivalent levels of violence (which would get a smackdown in the UK) or racism (which would in some EU nations, specifically Germany) get a pass?

Before anyone jumps on me saying otherwise, I'm all for nuking the pedoshit. I don't think we need an article on [insert creepy pedophilic anime series here] and I'm all for locking the article on Lolita much as we have The Bible locked down - so it CAN'T be turned into creepy by Misaimed Fandom, just as The Bible can't be turned into endless Flame War or preaching.

That said, I think there is definitely a DEFINED, strong line between pedoshit and consensual adult sexual activity. I also think that if we are going to ban works that focus primarily on consensual adult sexual activity to the exclusion of plot, we should also focus on banning works that focus primarily on torture and violence to the exclusion of the plot.

I also think that consensual sex between adults (even if a work consists entirely of it or of references to it) is not something we should be taking any sort of stance against unless we want to adopt a uniquely American fucked-up perspective. That it's TOTALLY OK to watch a fake brutal torture of a woman, but to watch her being consensually pleasured is somehow forbidden and evil.

(edited. How the fuck I mixed up defined and fine is beyond me.)

edited 16th Apr '12 4:38:56 AM by AGroupie

Look, I know it's stupid, there's a Double Standard, so on and so forth. But people also treat violence and sex differently because they are different things, the validity of varying perspectives notwithstanding.

As far as "we," we're all just putting stuff out there. I mentioned a few posts ago about the Double Standard, and I'm looking at this from my own perspective, and I live in America.

We need input from lots of perspectives if we're to form a Council.™

edited 16th Apr '12 4:29:53 AM by condottiera

OK, as a citizen of Switzerland and Germany (and as a troper), I have to say no to these ideas. Yes, we aren't America-centric, but we aren't Europe-centric either. The US are loose on violence and racism and Europe is loose on sex. None is loose on paedophilia. So we can drop the latter. Not the former.

Also, the line between paedophilia (=sexual attraction or eplicit sexual activity on pre-teens) and consensual adult sex is not a fine one. There is any nonconsensual sex and also teen sex between them.

edited 16th Apr '12 4:21:14 AM by SeptimusHeap

Now, I get were you're coming from even if you didn't say it very nicely, and I wasn't going to say anything, but that thing about "a uniquely American fucked-up perspective" leans toward Misplaced Nationalism. I figured you said it just for the pun, and I was gonna let it go, but I guess I just can't let anything go.

That's why I'm here in the first place.

Also, wouldn't member vote be scewed toward American perspective anyway, because of all the Americans here?

Still think we should be objective, and that's what you're trying to say.

And we're not loose on racism. We're heavy on free speech.

The Vocal Minority can say whatever they want. Even Jerkasses and Nazis have rights.

edited 16th Apr '12 4:36:33 AM by condottiera

OOPS!!! Seriously, no Misplaced Nationalism intended - I am American, I just think our FCC and our Puritanical morality kind of sucks sometimes. It just me. :) Anyway I'm out here. I don't want to upset anyone else and this is why I don't do forums usually

As for a "fine" line, I meant a defined line. How I made that mistake I have NO idea, but I'll chalk it up to being tired.

edited 16th Apr '12 4:37:58 AM by AGroupie

I mean, I figured. It's just that the generalization is pretty strong.

Don't want to end on that note, but I gotta go.

edited 16th Apr '12 4:40:08 AM by condottiera

violent works will have a look at.

Do not make declarations about what will happen that have't been backed up by statements from admi.

No admin has said that we will begin reviewing violent non-pornographic works for possible deletion.

At the very least, we should remove Agony In Pink as it's sexual as well as violent, actual torture porn. *shudder*

-sees Porn Without Plot as one of the tropes-

Yep, I can't see how this would be missed.

edited 16th Apr '12 6:38:53 AM by EarlOfSandvich

As far as I can tell, this thread was created for the same reason that people put works like A Song Of Ice And Fire and Romeo And Juliet on the cutlist. Basically, to be sensationalist and make the flawed "well if we can't have this awful horrible thing, then we should also not have this other thing." It's kind of mind-boggling that people are saying, "If pedophilia is out, violence and racism have to be also." I don't take that position seriously, sorry.

I think what they're going for is more "if porn in general is out, then violence should be also."

And it's true, "consensual sex is terrible but graphic torture is A-OK!" is a disturbing double standard. I'm wary of censoring either.

This appears to be a straw argument.

edited 16th Apr '12 7:24:45 AM by FastEddie