Troper Authors and associated issues

(I hope this is the right thread for this)

I frequent the Literature subforum a lot, and I have noticed something, that might require Troper consensus, so I decided to raise the issue here.

An interesting (and dare I say, pride-worthy) event has occured, not one but two tropers have managed to get self-published on the Kindle market, and I foresee this happy trend to continue, since self-publishing is becoming more and more easier, and given that this site itself promotes this habit, with the Story Generator and Pitch Generator Tools.

However this has raised a few potential issues, that I prefer we settle now, whilst the trend is in a more controllable phase:

---

Author promotion threads:

• Both Authors have created threads in the literature subforum to promote these books.
  • Do you think this self-promotion is wrong? Do you prefer some other troper have made these threads?

  • Do you prefer there be another subforum for troper-created works?

  • What about works created in other media (Song, Video, Manga etc)?

  • Should there be different treatment for tropers who later become media creators, and existing media creators getting introduced to TV Tropes and becoming a member?

---

Author created Trope Pages:

• One of the authors has gone ahead and created the trope page for their book.
  • Similar to the issues above, do you think the tropers should be allowed to create trope pages for their own works? Or should that be left to other tropers? What about other media?

---

Please give your ideas in this regard. Do you foresee any problem, or do you think this is a non-issue?

Please Understand that I am NOT accusing any of the two tropers of any ill-activity, but I guess you can't blame me for seeing *potential* future problems, as this trend continues. Edit wars, trolling, Arguments on the Death of the Author concept, these and more could happen, especially with tropers with less-self control.

edited 11th Jan '12 5:05:59 AM by ryzvonusef

Herald of the Literature Sub-Forum. Share me your favourite book/series/author!

Tropers have always been allowed to create pages for their own works, however if a troper wants to drop Word of God it is best to do so off site since all it takes to make an account and a claim is a few minutes of effort (essentially, we want a different site to have the actual info). That said, it's best to stick to objective tropes, stay away from the YMMV page.

Fight smart, not fair.

In addition to what Deboss said, as far as making forum threads is concerned I don't see it as substantially different from 'come check out my Fan Fic' type messages.

Yes, but fan fictions are free to view (btw, are those threads really allowed?) while books are for sale, hence there being a financial motive.

This is different than, say, presenting your work for critique at some Writer's Block Conversations thread.

That is interesting to note. But yes, how do you keep them away from YMMV, and other items that may not come under YMMV specifically, but still debate worthy? What about sock puppets?

On a seperate issue, do you believe such threads should be created in the Writer's Block Conversations subforum? Since the vibe I got from both authors was not merely advertisement, but critique at their effort.

edited 11th Jan '12 5:07:47 AM by ryzvonusef

Herald of the Literature Sub-Forum. Share me your favourite book/series/author!

Since I'm hoping in the near future to release something that you'd have to pay for, I've gone over these issues in my mind. A few thoughts.

One, I think promotion of your work is fair in certain places. I plan on mentioning it on my troper page when the time comes, and I figure making a thread about it in the appropriate forum would be cool.

For a page on the work itself, while nobody can keep me from doing a YMMV item, it'd be best to not interject my own opinions about my work. A little too masturbatory, really. Though I have been going back and forth as to how to handle spoilers... should I add tags to stuff that I wanted to be a spoiler if others haven't? I suspect that's okay, though I'd like to hear others' thoughts.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.

We're not really going to put effort into keeping them away from the YMMV page. What we will do is treat them like any other editor: if they have a problem with gushing/fighting about the work, they get a suspension until they promise to knock it off. Given the nature of the YMMV page, the recommendation to stay away is for the editors protection as much as the wikis.

Look at me using the plural we when the mods do all the work and I'm just chattering away, it's like I've got a business degree or some shit.

Fight smart, not fair.

Pretty much accurate. Anyone is free to pimp their work here, as long as they accept the fact that they are just another editor for the works page.

Paid or not makes no difference. If Stephen King wants to go in the forum and talk up his latest work, he should go for it. Same courtesy is afforded to people who are just getting their fame-train rolling.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty

Ah, okay then, so in a nutshell:

We can create threads promoting our work, add links to it on our pages/signagtures, create trope page for it etc. Just like any other work.

However, it'd be best to avoid YMMV, and we don't start trying to post about it every second post. Sound good?

edited 11th Jan '12 10:14:43 AM by Eventua

So, just to clarify, you have no problem advertising their book/song/movie/whatever for sale? That's good to know.

Also, is there any restriction where they make their thread? Any particular subforum?

And what about disclaimers? I,for one, think that the troper should at least clarify on their troper page that they are affiliated with said work, and maybe on the trivia tab too.

edited 11th Jan '12 11:00:08 AM by ryzvonusef

Herald of the Literature Sub-Forum. Share me your favourite book/series/author!

I'd think if someone has something that's published they'd want people to know anyway.

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.

Hey all, as one of the troper-authors mentioned I guess I should wade in. :)

I personally think that the "Don't Be A Dick" rule applies to these kinds of things. Can you create a (one) thread announcing the publication of your book? Sure, I guess, for the moment... as long as things don't go crazy up in here, like the Literature section getting 10+ new announcements per day. If it does, we should create a subsection. It's manageable.

As for bias, well... my philosophy is that self-praise is no praise at all. When I created the Lacuna article, I didn't use any of the more... fanboyish tropes, such as Crowning Moment Of Awesome, because it's not my place to add things like that and TV Tropes is not an advertising vehicle for my book. Besides; what's more satisfying, adding it there yourself... or seeing someone else add it?

As I said... don't be a dick. Payment for not being a dick is generally differed, but it comes.

I do agree, though, that some sections like YMMV are probably best avoided if you're the author. If you're extremely disciplined, you can read but not comment, but most people just can't resist adding a post and going "BUTYOUR'REWROOOOOOOOOOONG, Adventures of Sparkle Princess: The Happiest Adventure Ever is TOTALLY a horror book!"

Don't be a dick.

...

... don't be a dick.

To be honest, I'd love to see Stephen King on TV Tropes. I bet it'd be entertaining.

Tangents aside, I would specify that yeah, an author should only do one thread, and it should be in the appropriate subforum (I think so far that only Literature has seen such threads, although nothing is stopping future threads in, say, Music). And forum signatures, of course... though I do wonder just how often people actually click links in those.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.

Spamming threads is being a dick.

Fight smart, not fair.

I'm not spamming threads.

Wasn't directed at you.

Creating more threads to talk about a work you created, or consistently making contentless bumps in one thread to keep it at the top, would be considered "spamming threads". If that's you're definition of "advertising a work" then it's something that will get you banned. If all you do is use it as a Q&A with your readers, you're golden.

Fight smart, not fair.

I'd like to emphasize this, since I've seen someone get banned for repeating bumping the thread for their own webcomic when no one else bothered to respond to it.

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful

Ahh cool Deboss, yes. Spamming threads is being a dick. :P

And yeah. I'd like to think the Don't Be A Dick rule will triumph here. TV Tropes is for TV Tropes, not pimping your webcomic/novel/fanfic/film/political views/whateves.

"If Stephen King wants to go in the forum and talk up his latest work, he should go for it."

That would be awesome. I wonder if any creators do check out their works TV Trope pages?

I think Eddie keeps a list or something. I know we've had at least one or two create threads specifically to thank us for the ideas. I don't actually remember the author though, I think she did a Paranormal Romance pastiche or something.

Fight smart, not fair.

Mary Janice Davidson I believe.

"You want to see how a human dies? At ramming speed." - Emily Wong.

I know Martin Millar looked at the Lonely Werewolf Girl page because I've actually spoken with him. Unfortunately the first time he saw it was when it was drafted as a Complaining About Shows You Dont Like page with Mary Sue tropes spammed all over it. He didn't have a very good impression of the site at that point. However since it's been cleaned up and made into a real page he now thinks its kinda cool. Whether he has edited I don't know (and I didn't ask since that seemed really stalker-ish), but he has seen the site.

edited 12th Jan '12 10:34:10 AM by CrypticMirror

There are a number of webcomic authors who post here regularly — I know of two offhand. You could look at the One Of Us page to find more.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Diane Duane edited her own page at least once.

A brighter future for a darker age.

S.M. Stirling also edited one of his pages for the Emberverse. He cleared up a question on one of his prophecies.

I like this new trend, it'll make self motivation easier. Maybe. Possibly. Doubtful, but it is a good trend nonetheless. :P

The "Don't Be A Dick" rule is a very good one. One thread to let people know the work is out there and to talk about it makes sense. Like any other recent work people want to talk about.

I'd say fill your Works page in with the general tropes, but leave the Love/Hate tropes, like Crowning Moments, to others. When I start really publishing, I'll read the YMMV page, just to know what's said about my work.

I hang out on another forum that has a stickied thread for writers to promote their published work. Would it be worthwhile to create such a thread in Writer's Block?

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful