Marvel Cinematic Universe

On the other hand, is not like mainstrain marvel dosent have awfull shit on is own?. Like capital marvel choking a skrull in space? Tony stark cloing thor? the list go on.

Then again it also has Cyclops blasting the shit out of Wolverine like a punk-ass loser & kicking him off the team so its not entirely bad.

You miss the point. The fact the Ultimate-verse got so much dark shit without even making it past a decade is fucking astounding.

Again the normal Marvel U is the culmination of over 50 years of labor & the Ultimate-verse caught up to it quick as Hell.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 22nd 2020 at 3:59:16 AM

...I've been wondering: how did Logan even get back on the team after that?

Even he knew he had the beating Cyclops was about to give him coming (he said as much before getting blasted) so I'm baffled as to what led to him being part of the Xmen again.

I thought evil Reed Richards was one of the few Darker and Edgier things people liked about the Ultimate Universe?

Most of this was during the very early days (and then a bit during Jeph Loeb's stint), it got much better afterwards.

Also, as shitty as Ultimatum was, it at least gave us some interesting Post-Scenarios. X-Men for example got very good afterwards.

Evil reed richards?

that sound like civil war reed richards.

Yeah, the Maker is actually a fairly popular villain.

Also, I liked Energy Being Ben Grimm and his relationship with Sue.

Never been into Sue dating Ben.

Whole thing feels like a rebound. Like sure break up with the guy but then you go & date his best friend it just feels lazy.

Though it’s better than dating Namor I admit.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 22nd 2020 at 4:11:27 AM

About Ultimate Marvel and the shit it pulled, the worst has to be how the Wasp died: getting vored by the Blob.

I no rite?

I mean, she'd be too small to even be a proper meal for him most of the time...

No, wait. What the hell am I saying?

Obviously she was normal size when he did it. Never mind.

....yes, I am an asshole. Why do you ask?

Edited by HandsomeRob on Feb 22nd 2020 at 9:39:38 AM

Because the skills that require you to be a soldier are very different from what is required to be a civil rights activist. Typically, a superhero will be trained in the former. We see this with Captain America in both the comic and film versions of Civil War where his plan to oppose the law that was limiting superheroes was to just beat people up while hoping everyone will come to their senses and see the law was wrong. And this is supposed to be the most reasonable and trustworthy superhero in the Marvel Universe.

If a superhero is going to be a political activist, they're better off not being a superhero at all. If they want to be superheroes, they should leave the political stuff to people who know what they're doing.

Some superheroes are more likely to make an already tense political situation worse like Hawkeye.

Needing different skill sets and being exclusive to one another are two very different things.

Regardless of whether they would need to stretch different skills to do so, there’s nothing stopping the Marvel Heroes from doing or supporting activism on mutants’ behalf’s but writer caveat.

I'm sure if Captain America stood in the way of a pipeline being built on Lakota land or if Tony Stark broadcasted about gay rights many people would hear them.

Okay this is a bit random but I am currently working on a paper inspired by the changes done to Doctor Strange to appeal to the Chinese box office.

I need works to cite so does anyone know several good articles detailing China’s box office’s effect on the international cinema business?

Both Civil War and AvX fall into the same trap. Yes, there are cynical essays you can write about "Why should the world tolerate violent vigilantes?" and "Why are the X-Men comics so divorced from the rest of the Marvel Universe?"

But those are questions where the answer is, "Because it's a goddamn superhero comic." Superhero comics have one job: having larger-than-life figures with superpowers beat up larger-than-life bad guys with superpowers. Everything else in the entire superhero universe exists to facilitate these boss battles between heroes and villains. Supers punching each other in the face is the heart of the entire genre.

X-Men comics are in an awkward place, because they want to be stories about civil rights and prejudice. But they're also superhero comics, which means that their "activist" group is a private paramilitary strike force that spends all of its time hunting down bad guys and punching them in the face. Meanwhile, the prejudice on display has to be something that constitutes a larger-than-life bad guy to punch in the face, so we skip right over casual and standard racism, and every racist on the planet is a Turbo-KKK Ultra-Nazi planning genocide.

In the Marvel Universe, either you support minority rights or genocide; there is no inbetween. Because this is a superhero comic, and the only means by which it can advocate for minority rights is by having the violent vigilantes who fight crime happen to be mutants while doing so.

That's just how it is in a Superhero Universe. There are some deep and significant flaws with the concept of superhero stories that you cannot iron out, because they're part and parcel of the genre. Those flaws have motivated countless think-pieces about "The Marvel U: is it a shitty place?" Yes. Yes, it is. It has to be, because it's a setting for superhero comics.

But you shouldn't try to write a superhero comic to be one of those think-pieces. Because, at the end of the day, superhero comics are constrained by the medium. The Avengers do one thing: punch bad guys really hard. The X-Men do one thing: punch bad guys really hard while happening to be mutants. Captain America "admitted that he should have done more for mutants", and thus corrected his behavior by... making a team to punch bad guys really hard while some of their members happen to be mutants.

Even though "punching bad guys really hard while having some mutant members" is a thing that the Avengers had already been doing for decades. This happened because Captain America doesn't have the ability to respond to a criticism of the X-Office's creative decisions. Watson cannot solve Doyle's problems. Cap only does one thing: punch bad guys. And the X-Men only do one thing: punch bad guys. So any attempt at a solution to a conflict between them can only consist of punching bad guys.

Every work has thinkpieces. If you're actually writing the work, don't try to contort your work to respond to those thinkpieces. Don't try to write such a thinkpiece as your work. Just write the work and let thinkpieces be thinkpieces, because you are not equipped to have a serious conversation about the Necessary Weasels inherent to your genre conventions.

As an example, let's take a look at Astro City. Astro City is, ostensibly, a superhero comic — it's definitely set in a universe with numerous superheroes and supervillains and spy agencies and aliens and monsters and mythical creatures and so on and so forth. But the stories being told in Astro City are not "superhero stories," i.e. stories about heroes bravely fighting villains and winning in the end. Astro City tells human stories, stories about civilians on the ground, about those affected by those giant continuity-destroying crossovers, about the superheroes who have a conflict that can't be solved by punching it (seriously, read "Her Dark Plastic Roots"). They are stories that are about superheroes (or villains or people with superpowers or people without superpowers living in the world), but they aren't "superhero stories," as you would define it.

"Okay, but we're talking about the Marvel universe, not Astro City," I hear you cry. Except it doesn't matter. You can tell the same type of stories in Astro City as you could in the Marvel universe — as Kurt Busiek did when he made Marvels or Tom King did with The Vision (2015) or Ryan North did with Unbeatable Squirrel Girl or Jeremy Whitley did with Unstoppable Wasp or even what Al Ewing is currently doing with Immortal Hulk.

You act like being a part of a superhero universe means that the only stories you can tell are "superhero stories," which are all one genre, which all require the good guys to punch the bad guys, but that's not true (and even those stories which do involve punching of bad guys can contain elements that transcend the boundaries of the story they are in). Superhero comics can tell all genres, even the ones you think they can't.

Superhero comics are not constrained by their medium, because "superhero" isn't a medium, it's simply an element. Want a comic where Matt Murdock faces his own depression? It's been done. Want a comic where Nadia van Dyne has to deal with her bi-polar disorder? It's been done. What a comic about Frank Castle's first tour of duty in Vietnam? It's been done. But Frank isn't going to suddenly beat up the Viet Cong and win the war for America, because that's not how that works. Superheroes are an element; you can choose whatever genre you want.

Edited by alliterator on Feb 23rd 2020 at 12:19:48 PM

Apparently there was concept art and a deleted scene in Infinity War where Doctor Strange wears the Iron Man suit while Tony gets the Cloak.

Goddamn I would have loved to see that.

Even if it's absurdly silly.

Iron Strange and Doctor Man.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Feb 23rd 2020 at 3:49:44 PM

Of course the unfortunate part is that Strange with magic, the Time Stone, and Iron Man armor is tremendously overpowered, while Tony with the Cloak is just... a guy who can float.

> Doctor Strange wears the Iron Man suit

he cant do that without multiclassing,he's a mage and Stark is a warrior

I wonder what the context would've been for those changes. "Iron Sorcerer" would be pretty neat, though.

Edited by AlleyOop on Feb 23rd 2020 at 8:25:00 AM

Possibly Tony thought that, since Strange did not want to let go of the Time Stone, he was going to give him the best protection he could think of. And maybe they removed these scenes when they realised how ridiculously overpowered multiclassing Strange would make him.

I mean strange alone give thannos a battle, imagine with the armour

If he had but months to practice

He doesn’t know the ins and outs of the armor. It’s going to give him some extra protection and not much else

And he’s not wearing the helmet so he doesn’t even get the HUD

Unless he can room of spirit and hyperbolic time with the Time Stone

Edited by Bocaj on Feb 23rd 2020 at 12:34:39 PM