Ideology

Why should prostitution be banned? I mean: People can have sex, and they can buy and sell services. Why would the sale of sexual services be banned?

edited 5th Jun '11 6:07:02 AM by SavageHeathen

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.

If you ask me, moral policies should NEVER be implemented into laws, but hey, to each his own.

The sin of silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.

People own themselves, but why can't they sell themselves? Anti-slavery laws are all about morality. My moral compass tells me that sex is just an another thing that should not be sold.

edited 5th Jun '11 6:10:29 AM by fanty

People lose their freedom of action if they sell themselves into slavery. People don't lose their freedom of action if they have sex for money. As long as the sex is consensual, the reasons behind it are nobody else's business.

Pimps and gangs that force women into prostitution should be destroyed, but neither the clients nor the prostitutes are guilty of forcing people into prostitution. Punishing them is uncalled for.

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.

I'm not comparing slavery to prostitution, I'm comparing a law that forbids you to sell yourself to a law that forbids you to sell sex*. Slavery and prostitution are nothing alike, but the laws are in a similar vein. They both ultimately stem from morality.

EDIT: *Actually, that's more like a law that forbids you to buy a human being and a law that forbids you to buy sex, not the other way around. Or at least I don't think that it should be the other way around when it comes to prostitution: people in slavery don't get punished (even if they sold themselves), and same way, people in prostitution should not get punished. But the buyer should be punished.

(Remember, I'm not comparing slavery to prostitution, I'm only comparing the laws. Human beings should not be bought, sex should not be bought, and the laws stem from that.)

edited 5th Jun '11 6:26:15 AM by fanty

I fully agree! Which is why in Slightlyeviltopia, selling yourself in slavery is legal (you can't sell your kids though).

Point that somewhere else, or I'll reengage the harmonic tachyon modulator.

cadeonehalf: Ah, out tax system. We keep track of land ownership in a centralized registry: each landowner registers the value of the land he owns, and pays a tax that's a fixed percentage of that. He can change that value once per year, and is under no obligation of making a "honest assessment". However, anybody can pay the registered land value to purchase the land from him; so landowners have an incentive to keep the registered value honest, i.e. high enough to prevent others from buying it from him, but still as low as possible so as to minimize the taxes he pays. So, almost no bureaucracy involved.

The exact percentage would have to be calculated in advance so as to maximize state revenue in the long term (and might go up a little bit during national emergencies like wars). There would also be a few more rules to handle details such as how long before a property can change hands (roughly: you can pay an extra fee so that anybody purchasing your land might have to wait several years before he can actually have it), how to handle land subdivisions (you don't want someone to be able to do something like buy one sqaure foot in the middle of your factory), sub-lease contracts, ownership of minerals, land pollution, etc. But a team of lawyers, economist, statisticians, programmers and game designers should be able to find a set of rules with minimum loopholes and minimum bureaucracy needed.

Land-based tax means the government has an incentive to make the land as valuable as possible to increase his profits, i.e. the bureaucrat-statisticians can calculate how much things like public transport, quality schools etc. will "pay off" in terms of increased land value.

Point that somewhere else, or I'll reengage the harmonic tachyon modulator.

Hey, money don't grow on trees you know. If the government can find, ah, creative ways to fill it's coffers to avoid the burden of taxes on hard-working citizens, it's all for the best, isn't it?

Point that somewhere else, or I'll reengage the harmonic tachyon modulator.

Government: Direct Democracy.

Economy: Gift Economy.

Taxing: See Economy.

Foreign Policy: Non-interventionist.

Military: Small and purely defensive. Only volunteers and professionals.

Law and Order: Only anti-social acts are illegal, focus on rehabilitation or on isolation if rehabilitation is impossible.

Health Care: Available to everyone who needs it.

Immigration issue: No barriers, the more the merrier.

Freedoms: Freedom of speech, association, and privacy. Common ownership of the means of production.

Culture: No cultural laws.

Tolerance: Discrimination based on race and sex is persecuted.

Guns: No gun laws.

Education: Free anti-hierarchical schools.

Religion: Keep religion out of schools.

Gambling: Completely unregulated.

Alcohol: Alcohol trade is completely unregulated.

Consent: As long as there's no coercion, there's no problem.

Child Abuse: Physical abuse is discouraged.

Drugs: Drug consumption is legal, but help against addiction should be available.

Prostitution: Illegal, as it's another form of slavery.

Gay Issue: LGBT people can do everything heterosexuals can.

Abortion: Legal.

Euthanasia: Legal.

Remember, Rousseau Was Right, Utopia Justifies the Means and Anarchy isn't chaos.

edited 5th Jun '11 11:00:36 AM by Odysseus

All government is force.

His point was that if you have the poor over represented by minorities, you get a war with only minorities. I think that paying your way out of a war is only going to make the rich richer and the poor deader.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry

Since my goal is to have a rich country, that's fine with me.

(Not that getting in wars is anywhere on the agenda - that's the easiest way to screw up your country, just look at how Europe went from "Center of the World" to "Declining backwater")

Point that somewhere else, or I'll reengage the harmonic tachyon modulator.

...

I really...

Struggling for civil words, because I'm not sure if you're in jest or serious.

Alright, have you ever heard of Producerism? The main concept behind it is that a strong middle class is a natural aid towards a stable economy. Typically, the middle class has a great deal of disposable income which they like to spend, and it has a naturally boosting effect on the economy.

What I think you have just said is that you don't particularly care if people are poor and a small percentage of the country is rich. Please clarify if you don't mean that. Anyway, I am firmly against incredibly uneven wealth distribution, as countries with smaller disparities between the upper and lower classes have greater overall happiness. I am not saying that all people should have the same incomes, but I am saying that I am against the hyper rich, $100,000-per-hour net gainers who are occurring more and more in the US.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry

If you go back to my first post in this thread, you'll notice that I say:

... so yeah, I know the value of a middle class. That doesn't mean that allowing the rich to pay their way out of some obligations can't be a good way to complement the state's income.

Hmm, in fact I could auction off a fixed number of "get out of military service cards" each year, that would maximize profits while still allowing the military to plan precisely how many recruits it'll have.

(And it's not paying your way out of war, it's paying your way out of military service, the default service in times of peace. Of course the same policy won't hold at times of war - getting out is much more expensive then)

edited 5th Jun '11 12:43:49 PM by SlightlyEvilDoctor

Point that somewhere else, or I'll reengage the harmonic tachyon modulator.

Fair enough. Sorry.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry

My suspicion is that there is no single style of government that can provide for all situations, so I support a system that allows laws and policy to change with the times. In practice, this means a republic. I also support free speech, so as to to maximize the possibilities for positive change. Most of the rest I leave to people who're better-informed than I am.

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful

If you want to roleplay your fantasy nations, Nation States is over here.

edited 5th Jun '11 4:03:46 PM by Wanderhome

These look like character sheets for some made up Axis Hetalia character.

Copied, pasted and edited. Mind you, I'm not an American.

•Government: A parliamentary republic with proportional representation. •Economy: Socialized, with independent cooperatives performing most tasks and government enterprises performing certain important tasks like security and healthcare.

•Taxation: Progressive income tax. Taxes should be enough to accomodate jumps in costs and as stable as possible. Avoid VAT taxes on everyday necessities like healthy food and clothes.

•Foreign Policy: Very careful interventionism, don't jump at anybody who looks at us wrong but don't get isolated from the rest of the world.

•Military: Small and professional. Try to keep it inexpensive. Possibly join up with some ideologically similar countries to share military R&D and military infrastructure.

•Law and Order: Focus on prevention and rehabilitation. More focus on white-collar crime and corruption. Possibly a police unit whose sole task is to root out government corruption.

•Health Care: Run by the public and open to all. Should be a high priority on the budget.

•Immigration issue: Legal immigration is a positive asset, but care needs to be taken to make sure they speak the local language(s) and understand the local culture.

•Freedoms: Negative and positive freedoms are needed. Freedom of speech is very important but should not infringe on the right to privacy.

•Culture: No censorship, keep labels to warn people about potentially offensive graphics/language.

•Tolerance: We should prosecute certain behaviours when they are mostly based on intolerance.

•Guns: Shotguns and hunting rifles should be legal for the purposes of hunting and sport, and considering how much damage they can do, heavily regulated. There is no legal reason to own a handgun that a rifle or a shotgun would not do better.

•Education: Heavy investment in public schooling. Teach critical thinking. Religion shouldn't be taught at all. School should teach all students about the laws of the country and the system of justice.

•Religion: Laïcité. No religion in our secular country. Membership of religious organisations should be restricted to age 15 and above.

•Gambling: Legal, highly taxed.

•Alcohol: Legal, but one must have a permit, and it would be highly taxed.

•Consent: Keep it at 16. Allow some flexibility when both persons are of equal physical, mental and emotional development.

•Child Abuse: Oh so criminal but oh so difficult to work with.

•Drugs: Light drugs like marijuana should be legal even if I have a great distaste for such things, regulated and taxed. Heavier drugs should be illegal with forced rehabilitation as punishment.

•Prostitution: Legalize. Keep strictly regulated.

•Gay Issue: Homosexual couples have the same rights as heterosexual couples.

•Abortion: Abortion on demand until the sixteenth week.

•Euthanasia: Legal with the patients consent in written form.

edited 5th Jun '11 6:06:11 PM by Siegvardr

• Government: Parliament elected by proportional representation.
• Economy: Regulated free-market economy, nationalised health service, transportation and prisons. Corporate influence on the government to be kept to a minimum.
• Taxing: Enough to keep everything going. Tax the rich to make up the shortfall.
• Foreign Policy: Non-isolationist.
• Military: Professional and well-equipped, but not huge. No crazy R&D spending either. Blue-water navy with carriers and a decent air force.
• Law and Order: No death penalty, rehabilitate minor offenders, reform prisons to stop otherwise minor offenders from becoming hardened criminals and crack down hard on abuse.
• Health Care: Nationalised health service.
• Immigration issue: Streamline legal immigration while keeping an eye out for extreme elements.
• Freedoms: Speech, assembly, of and from religion, press etc. Tabs kept on anyone behaving in a threatening way. No bollocks like ID cards.
• Culture: Nothing censored. State media organisation like the BBC alongside everything else.
• Tolerance: No discrimination, positive or negative.
• Guns: No guns unless you're a farmer or hunter, and you need a license. Certainly no handguns. Police usage of guns to be restricted to armed response units.
• Education: Compulsory until 18. Free university education available.
• Religion: Freedom of and from, seperation of church and state. Churches taxed, but not religious (nor secular) charitable organisations.
• Gambling: Legalised and regulated.
• Alcohol: Legalised. Drinking age 18.
• Consent: 16 seems fine, with a proviso protecting underage teenagers from ludicrously disproportionate legal punishment. Applies to homosexuality too.
• Child Abuse: State protection for victims. Apart from that not really sure what to say about this really.
• Drugs: Softer drugs legal and regulated. Harder drugs still illegal, but dealers rather than addicts prosecuted. Addicts recieve state help.
• Prostitution: Legalised and regulated.
• Gay Issue: Gay marriage and adoption legal. Civil partnerships that provide every legal benefit from marriage available as an alternative for both hetero- and homosexual couples.
• Abortion: Legal, similar to the British system. It shall be a goal of the state to drive down the number of abortions through education and contraceptive.
• Euthanasia: Legal, with shitloads of regulation to make sure that no-one is being pressured into it. Prisoners serving life have the option.

There we go No doubt totally unworkable, but hey.

edited 5th Jun '11 6:09:26 PM by pagad

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.

Keep in mind that as I'm not at the far Idealist end of Sliding Scale of Idealism Versus Cynicism I'm fully aware the percentage of idiots is probably too high for it to work. but one can always hope...

Behold: the Anarchistic Utopia of Qeisemark • Government: Meritocracy and direct democracy. The highest level conserns too many people for direct democracy, so the most competent people are selected to perform those duties.

• Economy: Money doesn't exist. Everyone is given duties according to their abilities. If those duties are neglected for too long the person is deported. In foreign transactions foreign currency is used. If some nutjob wants to emigrate he/she can work extra to gain personal property to get started.

• Taxing: As everything is free and nobody has income there's nothing to tax.

• Foreign Policy: If the Anarchistic Utopia of Qeisemark is not worldwide it's foreign policy is that if an oppressive government exists, Queisemark is obliged to free the oppressed. First by peaceful means, and military means as the last resort.

• Military: Military service is optional. At a time of war military service may be added to peoples duties.

• Law and Order: the surrounding community judges it's members. The highest level of government sets written guidelines. If someone is unsatisfied with the judgement they can appeal on a higher level. Only the highest level of judgement can deport or give a death penalty.

• Health Care: Free.

• Immigration issue: People are free to come. If they fail to perform their duties they are kicked out. They'll have to bring their money and possesions with them, as society works on the basis that resources are pooled for equal use.

• Freedoms: Generally you're free to do what you want as long as it doesn't hurt others.

• Culture: No sencorship.

• Tolerance: Race or gender is not a factor. As the community is tolerant so is judgement. Only actions matter.

• Guns: only people in active military service are allowed to have guns.

• Education: Free. The more popular schools take students in strictly based on previous performanse and tests.

• Religion: as long as abuse isn't involved it's live & let live. Childrens religious freedom is protected even from their parents.

• Gambling: unregulated.

• Alcohol: Alcohol is a drug. See "lighter drugs".

• Consent: Only guidelines, laws arent rigid. Age of consent 18 with R&J law with age difference 2 years.

• Child Abuse: the surrounding community will judge when parenting has turned into abuse and takes action. The parent can take the case to a higher level of Law&Order.

• Drugs: Heavy drugs are banned. For lighter drugs there's education to prohibit exessive use. If they start causing problems for someone or the people around him/her the right to use drugs is suspended.

• Prostitution: the way society works I don't see why somebody would want to be a prostitute. It is legal as long as the prostitute does his/her duty.

• Gay Issue: gay couples have the same rights as heterosexual ones.

• Abortion: Legal until brainactivity starts.

• Euthanasia: Legal. Only when asked for with a two-day think period. People are encouraged to write their wishes regarding euthanasia in case they end up in a carrotlike state.

EDIT: sorry about the formatting, should've checked how it came out before going to other threads.

edited 7th Jun '11 2:52:05 AM by Qeise

Laws are made to be broken. You're next, thermodynamics.

WTF!?! Central planners assigning duties? No right to keep and bear arms? Someone with an authority to ban certain vices? People not owning the fruit of their labor? That's not anarchy, that's statist communism!

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.

Dunno, I'm waiting him to fix the formatting to read it.

Point that somewhere else, or I'll reengage the harmonic tachyon modulator.

I admit my definition of anarchy may be a bit lax. The right to bear arms, banning vices: I don't consider those to be against anarchy because the ones enforcing them would be the surrounging community. Yes, that would include you if you were to live in Queisemark. People do own the fruit of their labor: the right to live in Qeisemark. Central planners assigning duties: this is where you do have a point. I didn't define who assigns the duties. Probably the lowest level of direct democracy with the right to appeal higher.

Laws are made to be broken. You're next, thermodynamics.

I guess I'll give it a whack.

• Government: A good one. Well seasoned, and properly proportioned.
• Economy: A fun one, but one that doesn't rely on luck for honest fun.
• Taxing: But of course
• Foreign Policy: Friendly, but we're going to have to talk if something iffy comes up.
• Military: One that's well equipped and trained, but not too small or too big but just right
• Law and Order: Lots of laws. Plenty of Order. But a tiny pinch of uncertainty and chaos gives life a punch
• Health Care: It's not very healthy for the people if the government doesn't care
• Immigration issue: I like immigrants
• Freedoms: Plenty, but with some caveats. Don't want them loopholes to accidentally strangle people.
• Culture: Lot's of it, and good documentation, too. I don't have Tivo.
• Tolerance: Not very tolerant of intolerance.
• Guns: Sure, but we gotta set some ground rules down so you don't accidentally shoot the wife's face.
• Education: The finest
• Religion: Why not
• Gambling: With rules so you don't gamble your organs away and ask the government to get you new ones
• Alcohol: Only the good stuff
• Consent: depends on how long we got to live
• Child Abuse: I don't like abusing children
• Drugs: Like goggles, they do nothing for me. I get high on life. Makes great tax revenue, though.
• Prostitution: unionize those ho's so that the pimp hand doesn't give them whiplash. Frequent checkups, too.
• Gay Issue: Well, I hope that people will be happy, but I can't force it
• Abortion: I wish we wouldn't have to
• Euthanasia: You gotta give the administrator something nice in return. They are doing you a big favor.

edited 7th Jun '11 3:22:33 AM by victorinox243