Should we cut Driven to Suicide?: Driven To Suicide

Given the nature of the Driven to Suicide trope, might it be an idea to cut the examples and just have the general trope and links for real life suicide risks? For one it's a depressing read and not really in line with how TV Tropes is meant to be fun. For another, I feel the same way about the topic as some Tropers did about having a hanging doll for the Evangelion High Octane Nightmare Fuel page. I'd feel uncomfortable about some depressed reader taking in the examples listed and even perhaps in their poor state of mind find the idea appealing, especially if the concept is from something they are part of a fandom of.

Well most of the examples follow Driven To Attempted Suicide but seeing as how there are a hell of alot of examples of this trope in media I would say leave them its a serious plot issue Unless its Played for Laughs like the Image of the trope then its Crossing the Line Twice.

edited 23rd Feb '11 9:45:12 AM by Raso

I don't see how this is not a legitimate trope, which should have examples from media and the like.

For one it's a depressing read and not really in line with how TV Tropes is meant to be fun.

HA HA HA—No

edited 23rd Feb '11 9:56:57 AM by EternalSeptember

Depressing tropes are still tropes. Our primary purpose is to catalog tropes, not have fun. Stories and tropes that are disturbing or depressing are as worthy as those that are joyful.

In fact, we have an entire index of Depressing Tropes (some more depressing than others).

I find it highly unlikely that a fictional example of suicide is going to push someone over that invisible edge from depressed to suicidal.

edited 23rd Feb '11 10:04:33 AM by ccoa

Might as well cut all the rape tropes too, since they're triggers!

If it really bothers you maybe the description can be reworked to be more anti-suicide, or whatever.

The fact that we give numbers and websites for that thing isnt enough?

The thread already goes above and beyond its scope in that category as it is.

I would support a Real Life-sectionectomy for this. The existing Real Life section takes up a whole page on my huge, high-res work monitor and it would be way longer if we actually included even just all the famous ones.

Definitely cut the real life section. Its what is most likely going to cause people problems.

Can't the stuff about hotlines go on to useful notes?

I'd rather keep it on the page, but we could put it in a folder so it doesn't bother non-depressed tropers so much.

No I would say leave it there its more obvious and folders would probably just get skipped... I had never been to that page myself but that is a damn good idea since we are almost always near the top of google searches.

Why exactly are we putting suicide prevention hotline information on the page? We don't put contact info for rehab clinics on trope pages about drugs or drug addicts. We don't advertise Alcoholics Anonymous on The Alcoholic. Hell, we certainly don't use Good Girls Avoid Abortion to promote adopting agencies or the like. We don't even put this information on other trope pages about suicide.

What are we making suicide prevention a priority for on the page? Just stick to the darn examples.

edited 23rd Feb '11 11:41:28 AM by SeanMurrayI

The hotlines are there for those who...I dunno, might have come across the page while contemplating suicide.

If there isn't support for cutting the examples then I say leave it as it is. It was just an idea.

I'm not sure how we handle other potentially sensitive issues represents precedent in some way. That sort of argument never gets anywhere in rename debates, either. This is a publicly editable wiki, consistency has never been a strong suit for such a medium.

Heck, even Google gives you a suicide prevention hotline number if you Google "suicide." They don't have anything like that for "abortion" (which is a morally gray area anyway - the wiki doesn't need to take sides on it) or "illegal drugs".

It's already been mentioned that the trope page comes up fairly near the top when searching outside the site for suicide, so it's entirely probable that someone who is not a reader/editor of TV tropes will come across it when not looking for the trope Driven to Suicide. A person who may actually be looking to commit suicide or looking for help, for example.

I say folderize it so if it bugs you, you don't have to look at it. It's not like it's hurting the article that much.

edited 23rd Feb '11 12:32:31 PM by ccoa

The hotlines are there for those who...I dunno, might have come across the page while contemplating suicide.

But why? Why would we have this on a trope page? All a trope page has to do is describe an occurrence in narrative works and media and list examples of it occurring. We don't take time to make a notice about suicide prevention. A lot of occurrences in media and fiction that This Wiki catalogs is pretty sensitive and serious stuff. Heck, we have an entire index all about RAPE, but we don't use any of those tropes to advertise counseling, just in case anyone reading the page is a rape victim. This is just NOT the kind of thing a trope page is here for.

Someone suggested that it be moved to a Useful Notes page, which would be a far more appropriate place on the wiki where we might like to catalog this information.

And maybe some kid will find the School Shooting trope page through Google before he shoots up his own school. No one's posted any special hotlines for anyone who may be contemplating doing that, in case they read the page. What are we concerning ourselves with these possibilities for? They're irrelevant to everything we're supposed be doing with tropes.

edited 23rd Feb '11 1:03:12 PM by SeanMurrayI

Sorry, it somehow offends you that there is help that could potentially save lives on the page?

Like I said, if you want to put this information somewhere appropriate, I'd consider making a Useful Note. Trope pages are not where we put these things. Hell, we have an entire index that's all about suicide in narrative works and media. Are we to put this notice on each trope page about suicide? Or the index itself?

edited 23rd Feb '11 1:06:57 PM by SeanMurrayI

Because it makes us appear considerate and socially responsible.

edited 23rd Feb '11 1:07:04 PM by EternalSeptember

^So then why aren't we telling drug addicts where to get cleaned up on trope pages about drugs? Or alcoholics on trope pages about alcoholism? Why aren't we advertising charities for juvenile illnesses on Littlest Cancer Patient? Why aren't we advertising reputable places for teenagers contemplating sex to learn the straight facts about the subject on You Fail Sex Ed Forever so they can avoid pregnancies/STD's?

Why aren't we being socially conscious anywhere else? What does it even have to do with troping?

edited 23rd Feb '11 1:14:42 PM by SeanMurrayI

I don't really think its our job to be "social responsible"

Yes, suicide is bad. No, I don't think any site that even mentions suicide should have to include a dozen links to helplines.

Should we put links to drug\rape help on trope pages? Why not? So it doesn't fall under describing the trope, so what? If it helps people then I see no reason for links not to be added were someone to be so inclined.

Should we put links to drugrape help on trope pages? Why not?

Because it's not what we put on the trope pages.

edited 23rd Feb '11 1:21:54 PM by SeanMurrayI

Do you think everything possible should be done to prevent suicide? Yes or no?