Christian tropers, join together!

When it comes to "songs about God but not necessarily religious" I'm fond of some of Johnny Cash's Christianity-based work.

And particularly this one:

He's Jewish, and his religious songs tend to be more reflections about God than praise of Him, but Leonard Cohen also has some songs I love to listen in my more reflective theological moods.

Hallelujah is his most famous and its absolute bliss:

But in his last album he had some that really spoke to me. Chief among them the direct, diametric opposite of Hallelujah's feelings of bliss and wonder with the rather grim "You Want it Darker", which is almost like the Book Ends for his career:

And there's "It seemed the better way" which really sounds like an anthem for a reluctant believer.

And on that note, you cant forget U2.

Edited by J79 on Feb 18th 2019 at 3:29:51 AM

Is Hallellujah actually a sincere religious song? I've heard that it's about sex/an orgasm (90% of the internet seems to believe this) and that it's about losing faith.

It's one of those songs that has a hundred different interpretations depending entirely on who you ask. The most "universal" one is that the song is deliberately open-ended by attempting to say that "Hallelujah"s (i.e the glory of God) can be found in many things from our earthly existence (sex being one of them).

But the song itself is littered with religious symbolism. The song lyrics talk of a "baffled king composing" in what's a pretty self-evident allusion to the story of David, plus some references to Samson and also one to Abraham and his story with sacricificing his son that ties the whole song together.

As for the themes of reluctant belief, that's Cohen's entire career. Every religious-themed song he has has a theme of doubt and uncertainity about said belief, hence why I said it's for my more "reflexive moods".

Edited by Gaon on Feb 19th 2019 at 8:09:40 AM

Speaking of which, I remember a Rap Critic video where he talks about preferring religious songs which talk about the narrator's hardships and doubts to ones that are just "God is great all the time man it sure is nice to be saved". Agree or disagree?

I guess he likes the lament Psalms? Because those are very sad. But the Psalmist still trusts God, because they aren't scared to be honest about how they are feeling.

Well, hardships are supposed to be a big part of the faith.

The interpretation of Cohen's "Hallelujah" that I personally subscribe to (which I learned of from Jewish Tumblr bloggers) is that of the song's speaker engaging in the strong Jewish tradition of debate and arguing with God Themself. I actually see textual evidence for this in Cohen's recorded lyrics, for example "I heard there was a secret chord that David played, and it pleased the Lord/But you don't really care for music, do you?" seeming to be addressed at God, and then the entire "You say I took the name in vain" verse, and the ending of the final verse "I'll stand before the lord of song with nothing on my tongue but hallelujah"

I definitely like Christian music that struggles with things like doubt, it feels more real somehow.

@Sixthhokage 1

Wasn't that in Shrek?

Yep. In Watchman as well

@Physical Stamina: Yeah, I prefer these more "reluctant belief" songs most of the time that address the dark hours of religion as well as the light.

@Sixth Hokage 1: That's an interesting interpretation. I dig it.

Edited by Gaon on Feb 20th 2019 at 1:41:56 AM

My favorite songs are the ones where the singer acknowledges that they're being put through the wringer, but they're confident that God will help them cope with this mess.

Shrek uses the John Cale cover in the film, with the soundtrack version being provided by Rufus Wainwright (an artist signed to Dream Works Records at the time)

According to my dad, Bridge Over Troubled Watered is a stealth hymn, and well, if it is that's my favorite.

Speaking of doubt... how do you guys deal/cope with that? I'm in the middle of a pretty long depressive episode and it's getting harder and harder to keep the faith that there's a better life waiting for me.

Pray. Seek help from others you trust.

Absolutely pray about it. I mentioned Psalm 13 on the last page to some others asking the same kind of thing, I'd recommend reading it, and seeing that even the great Biblical figures struggled with doubt sometimes.

Thanks for being here for me, guys.

If it is at all possible, you should seek professional help as well.

And remember, if you ever get the idea of hurting yourself in your head, there are people out the willing to listen.

You Are Not Alone !

I've been in and out of therapy since I was twelve, but I've never talked about faith-related issues with my therapists. For one thing, I didn't convert until I was in my early twenties, and for another, it feels inappropriate.

Edited by ThriceCharming on Feb 27th 2019 at 7:45:55 AM

All right, tomorrow this year's Lent begins! For those of you who don't know, it ends at April 18.

• Things I will be giving up:
  • Frivolous use of Internet, including but not limited to TV Tropes.
  • Overwatch (Yes, I really love that game)
  • Profanities
  • Greasy food
  • Sleeping for more than eight hours
  • Carbonated drinks and snacks.

• Things I will pursue more:
  • Prayer and Bible reading
  • Saying nice things and expressing gratitude
  • Read up on law, particularly constitutions.
  • Finish my novel and submit it to publisher

Finally, first time in years I might actually start it on time!

Friendly reminder to my fellow Catholics that tomorrow is Ash Wednesday! It is not, however, a holy day of obligation, in case you weren't aware.

Why does it seem like many Christians treat Lent as New Years resolutions take two? It is good to remember what Jesus did for us.

On a different note, I'm pretty sure that the Left Behind guys are sexist and poor wroters. Because in their book about their idea of what the millenial reign will be like, they have a mortal man be a legit threat to a glorified woman. She gets saved by the would be rapist dying and turning to dust for some Deus ex Machina reasons. Pretty sure a immortal( Complete Immortality ) human could take out some mere mortal.