This thread's for the Spider-Man comics and spin-offs, whether they're decades old or brand new.
- Apart from the main Marvel Universe titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man "What If?" stories, crossovers, guest appearances in other books, Alternate Universe tales and things like Marvel's manga adaptations are all on-topic here.
- Spider-Man 'family' books are on-topic (as are their own crossovers, guest appearances etc.) - e.g. Spider-Man 2099, Miles Morales, Spider-Woman, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Venom, Carnage, Black Cat, Red Goblin and Spider-Verse.
- Characters and comics that originated in Spider-Man but are no longer directly connected to the spider-franchise (e.g. Punisher, Silver Sable) are not on-topic, unless you're discussing historical connections and crossovers. If in doubt, check before you write a long post. If this isn't the right place, there's a more general Marvel Comics thread
which covers them.
Technically, Marvel's Infinity Comics (and their predecessors, Infinite Comics) are webcomics, not comic books, but it's fine to talk about their Spider-Man stories here.
Discussions that are only about Spider-Man adaptations in other media (films, video games etc.) are off-topic, but discussing the differences between the adaptations and the original comics is fine - as long as spoilers for the adaptations are tagged.
Please follow the spoiler policy rules - tag spoilers for the latest issues, for any previews or content leaks, and for off-topic comics. When including spoiler tags, try to write so that tropers can make an informed decision before viewing them (e.g. which series and issue will they spoil?).
Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 10th 2023 at 10:58:13 AM
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I think Gwen had potential outside of Peter though. But she never got a chance to achieve that.
Maybe if they'd made Peter's responsibility for George's death a little less on the nose (like Doc causing the chimney to fall is not a direct result of his—Peter's—actions, but because Peter wins, and Ock sends the debris falling as a distraction so he can escape; even have Peter save one person, but not have time to save the other, and then George gets caught under it). Gwen can still blame him out of grief, but eventually realize that it wasn't really his fault and lay the blame on Otto.
But hindsight is 20/20.
Edited by HandsomeRob on Aug 25th 2019 at 7:23:30 AM
One Strip! One Strip!
@ alliterator: Indeed, going right back to the Golden Age. Captain America for instance was created by Simon and Kirby not just as a character to entertain, but to argue their viewpoint that the US should a) enter WWII, and b) back the Allies. Something that's often forgotten is that prior to Pearl Harbor, neither of these things was a particularly unanimous opinion.
And that's why the Secret Empire backlash got as big as it did - it took a character created by two Jewish men to make a powerful progressive statement and to embody all the best things about their country and turned him into the embodiment of the worst things about said country purely for shock-value bucks.
Edited by HamburgerTime on Aug 25th 2019 at 8:28:25 AM
It's still Otto's fault. Otto is a terrorist and a threat and he was initiating the fight, and he tried to kill Spider-Man. Spider-Man didn't do anything that anyone else in his situation wouldn't have done.
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
Fair enough.
Then maybe they should have had Gwen realize that...though Peter essentially kidnapping her didn't help.
He also once pretended to kidnap himself by wrapping a dummy in webbing and saying he wanted to have a word with Parker.
I can't imagine why she'd hate Spiderman. Can you?
In Marvels, Phil Sheldon visited Ock in jail and Ock refused to comment on Stacy's death. He was just happy that Spider-Man was being accused of the murder.
The very best, like no one ever was. Check out my Spider-Man fanfic here! [1]
Hating Spider-Man is one thing...becoming a Republican to do that is another.
You know if you read some earlier Lee-Romita stuff, the Petrified Tablet Saga for instance, you find that Gwen in that issue is kind of into protests about air pollution and more space for student dorms and is friendly to Randy Robertson (who was introduced as the voice for campus radicalism albeit Lee favors dad Joe "Robbie' Robertson's careful Internal Reformist approach to integration over radicalism).
And if you read Brian Cronin's article with the panels, Bullitt openly says to her he's against bleeding heart liberals, and other types and is against leftist politics. So basically Gwen Stacy quite consciously and deliberately became a Republican in that issue. Maybe she didn't know Bullitt's ties to hate groups, but she had to know through her friends and connections what that meant, and she had to know just by being around campus that "law and order" (even at the time) was dog whistle for race-directed justice. I mean if I were Randy Robertson, friends with Peter Parker and fellow student of Gwen, I'd be pretty livid.
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
...
...sounds about right.
Almost makes it sound like Otto knows he's to blame, but can take joy in being a Karma Houdini since everyone just blamed the Web-head.
And I mean, isn't that what most villains want? For people to hate the hero as much as they—the villain—does?
Ock lived the dream for a while there.
Secret Empire could have been what What If #44
◊ done in the main 616 universe, but they unfortunately blew the message. It's funny — What If #44 was published in 1984 and is someone more relevant today than Secret Empire is.
Stan Lee was politically quite wishy-washy. But when he decided to take a stand against white supremacy he did not f—k around (which is all Secret Empire does). He named it, he clarified where it sat on political spectrum (on the right end), and he even showed that Sam Bullitt uses "dog whistle" terms like law and order in a matter quite prescient.
Quite aside from the lurid headline, ASM #91-92 is Stan Lee and John Romita Sr's most underrated story in their run. It's a little dark but it's the most political of their stories and possibly the most political story in the history of ASM.
Lee was quite aware that Spider-Man was popular among African-Americans and in his run with Romita he started introducing diversity to the supporting cast. You had Robbie Robertson, later his son Randy, and then the Hobie Brown Prowler who is the first person aside from Peter to wear the Spider-Man costume and so is technically his legacy...by having Spider-Man aligned with Robbie against white supremacy, Lee was defining Marvel's mascot character in a certain way at a time when it meant something.
Edited by Revolutionary_Jack on Aug 25th 2019 at 7:24:58 AM
Funny but not helpful
In the Sinister Six books by Adam Troy Castro, Ock seems proud of having inadvertently killed Captain Stacy and even attempts to recreate the event as part of an overall plan to mindfuck Spider-Man by recreating his failures to save lives
George and Gwen Stacy’s death re-enactments were both on the day’s “festivities”
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Are those books worth checking out?
Funny but not helpful
I quite like them.
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
yeah, even JJJ turns on the guy after he found out what a terrible racist he is, despite their mutual hatred of Spider-Man.
(When written well, Jonah is actually a surprisingly nuanced character, which makes it kinda a shame when adaptations just paint him as basically Alex Jones.)
Edited by megaeliz on Aug 26th 2019 at 11:49:19 AM
preview for Friendly Neighborhood #11.
I’m very excited to see the Amazing MJ get a chance in the spotlight!
Edited by megaeliz on Aug 26th 2019 at 7:20:06 AM
Team Rocket Boss.
Speaking of Gwen Stacy being a white supremacist, didn't i accidentally give Jack the idea when i brought up Jameson slamming Bullit in contrast to Gwen not doing anything? Now this is hilarious.
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
Has anyone heard anything about Life Story 6? It comes out tomorrow but I can't find any previews.
The Protomen enhanced my life.
Team Rocket Boss.
I wonder what misery will befall Peter this time? Losing his son was rough, but knowing Marvel, MJ will be dead, Claire would blame him for her brother dying, Kravenom will be ruling New York, and his landlord still hasn't fixed the door.
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
Zdarsky said on twitter that there were no previews for LF#6 because everything is a spoiler.
Oh, that makes sense! Guess we'll have to wait one more day.
The Protomen enhanced my life.
Funny but not helpful
Did you do that on purpose?
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
I was tracing down the origin of Doctor Strange, and ended up running into an issue of “Strange Tales” (Volume 1), where Spider-Man defeated the Sandman with a industrial strength vacuum cleaner.
Funny but not helpful
I hold that moment with special esteem in my heart
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
Professional Complainer
If you got beat by a vacuum cleaner you'd go around telling people you lost on purpose too.
Ock ran away. It was collateral damage. Ock and Spider-Man were fighting, Ock was trying to kill Spidey, so Peter threw a special web he had designed with chemicals that gummed up the arms' functions, Ock lost control of those arms it tried to attack him and it knocked over the chimney that went to the crowd. Stacy pushed a kid who would have been crushed out of the way.