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None
Changed line(s) 6 (click to see context) from:
* AnyoneCanDie: Martin fully embraces this mindset in his stories and mocks Tolkien for sticking to TheGoodGuysAlwaysWin.
to:
* AnyoneCanDie: Martin fully embraces this mindset in his stories and even delights in making readers fall in love with his characters only to kill them off unexpectedly. He mocks Tolkien for sticking to TheGoodGuysAlwaysWin.
Changed line(s) 14 (click to see context) from:
* DraftDodging: Martin’s conscientious objector status is contrasted with Tolkien's experiences.
to:
* DraftDodging: Martin’s conscientious objector status is contrasted with Tolkien's experiences.experiences as a soldier.
Changed line(s) 17 (click to see context) from:
* FatIdiot: What Tolkien thinks of Martin, as Tolkien claims that Martin and Jon Snow both know nothing.
to:
* FatIdiot: What Tolkien thinks of Martin, Martin as a fat and uninspired hack, as Tolkien claims that Martin and Jon Snow both know nothing.
Changed line(s) 34 (click to see context) from:
* PretenderDiss: Tolkien mocks Martin for being a [=LARP=]er instead of a real soldier, in addition to his novel writing; "You and Jon Snow both know nothing!"
to:
* PretenderDiss: Tolkien mocks Martin for being a [=LARP=]er instead of a real soldier, in addition to his novel writing; writing, by declaring that, "You and Jon Snow both know nothing!"
Changed line(s) 38,39 (click to see context) from:
* SexSells: Martin believes this and gives this advice to Tolkien. ("Ditch the Goonie, cast a couple boobies!")
* SharpDressedMan: It's the reason Tolkien gets called "Professor Tweedpants" by Martin. He retaliates by saying he doesn't take criticism on clothes "from a dude who sends a raven to say 'Hi' to his toes".
* SharpDressedMan: It's the reason Tolkien gets called "Professor Tweedpants" by Martin. He retaliates by saying he doesn't take criticism on clothes "from a dude who sends a raven to say 'Hi' to his toes".
to:
* SexSells: Martin believes this and gives this advice to Tolkien. ("Ditch Tolkien, i.e. "Ditch the Goonie, cast a couple boobies!")
boobies!"
* SharpDressedMan: It's the reason Tolkien gets called "Professor Tweedpants" by Martin.He Tolkien retaliates by saying he doesn't take criticism on clothes "from a dude who sends a raven to say 'Hi' to his toes".
* SharpDressedMan: It's the reason Tolkien gets called "Professor Tweedpants" by Martin.
Changed line(s) 49 (click to see context) from:
* {{Worldbuilding}}: Martin thinks Tolkien takes it too far ("we don't need the backstory on every fucking tree branch!"). Tolkien defends it by claiming his ''Silmarillion'' is doing pretty well on sales.
to:
* {{Worldbuilding}}: Martin thinks Tolkien takes it world-building too far ("we by saying "we don't need the backstory on every fucking tree branch!").branch!". Tolkien defends it by claiming his ''Silmarillion'' is doing pretty well on sales.
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None
Changed line(s) 18 (click to see context) from:
* {{Flanderization}}: Martin's incarnation in the battle is more in keeping with TheThemeParkVersion idea of his books and [[Series/GameOfThrones the related TV show]]. Amongst other things he accuses Tolkien of letting good guys survive and bad guys die (which ignores Thorin, Boromir, Denethor and the Scourging of the Shire, not to mention the Bible of death and suffering that is ''Literature/TheSilmarillion'') and having too much detail in his books (each volume of ''A Song of Ice and Fire'' has dozens of pages on characters' genealogy alone, and backstory that goes back decades is often vital to characters' motivations). The RealLife Martin has repeatedly expressed admiration for Tolkien and likewise stated that Tolkien's books have the {{Unbuilt Trope}}s his own series drew from, and has claimed that one of his problems with Tolkien is when he [[https://www.tolkiensociety.org/2014/04/grrm-asks-what-was-aragorns-tax-policy/ is too reductive and not detailed enough]].
to:
* {{Flanderization}}: Martin's incarnation in the battle is more in keeping with TheThemeParkVersion idea of his books and [[Series/GameOfThrones the related TV show]]. Amongst other things he accuses Tolkien of letting good guys survive and bad guys die (which ignores Thorin, Boromir, Denethor and the Scourging of the Shire, not to mention the Bible of death and suffering that is ''Literature/TheSilmarillion'') and having too much detail in his books (each volume of ''A Song of Ice and Fire'' has dozens of pages on characters' genealogy alone, and backstory that goes back decades is often vital to characters' motivations). The RealLife Martin has repeatedly expressed admiration for Tolkien and likewise stated that Tolkien's books have the {{Unbuilt Trope}}s his own series drew from, and has claimed that one of his problems with Tolkien is when he [[https://www.tolkiensociety.org/2014/04/grrm-asks-what-was-aragorns-tax-policy/ is too reductive and not detailed enough]]. On the Tolkien side of things, the battle plays up his status as a soldier, with Tolkien bragging about his experiences in the Somme and shaming Martin for not serving in the Vietnam War, both things that would be very unlikely in real life as Tolkien was deeply traumatized by his experiences (and thus would never brag about them) and grew to actively despise war (so it's unlikely he'd diss Martin for not wanting to go to war).
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None
Changed line(s) 39 (click to see context) from:
* SharpDressedMan: It's the reason Tolkien gets called "Professor Tweedpants" by Martin. He retaliates by saying he doesn't take criticism on clothes.
to:
* SharpDressedMan: It's the reason Tolkien gets called "Professor Tweedpants" by Martin. He retaliates by saying he doesn't take criticism on clothes.clothes "from a dude who sends a raven to say 'Hi' to his toes".
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Nice Hat is now dewicked
Deleted line(s) 34 (click to see context) :
* NiceHat: Martin wears his trademark fisherman's cap.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Badass Mustache and Badass Beard are being merged into Manly Facial Hair. Examples that don't fit or are zero-context are removed. To qualify for Manly Facial Hair, the facial hair must be associated with masculinity in some way. Please read the trope description before readding to make sure the example qualifies.
Deleted line(s) 7 (click to see context) :
* BadassBeard: Fittingly for an author of medieval fantasy, George RR Martin could be some grizzled warrior carrying an axe with a beard like this.
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None
Deleted line(s) 42,43 (click to see context) :
--> '''Martin:''' My readers fall in love with every character I've written.\\
Then I kill them! And they're like, "No, he didn't!"
Then I kill them! And they're like, "No, he didn't!"
Added DiffLines:
--> '''Martin:''' My readers fall in love with every character I've written.\\
Then I kill them! And they're like, "No, he didn't!"
Then I kill them! And they're like, "No, he didn't!"
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None
Changed line(s) 37 (click to see context) from:
* RealityEnsues: Tolkien concedes that it is more true to life for characters to die randomly no matter who they are.
to:
* RealityEnsues: ThisIsReality: Tolkien concedes that it is more true to life for characters to die randomly no matter who they are.
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Deleted line(s) 42 (click to see context) :
* ShockingSwerve: Invoked.
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None
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* TheCameo: [[Franchise/GameOfThrones Daeneris Targaryen, Hodor, Jon Snow,]] [[Film/TheLordOfTheRings the Eye of Sauron, high elves, an orc]], and [[Film/TheGoonies Mikey Walsh]] make silent cameos in the background, while Music/LedZeppelin appear in Tolkien’s last verse to provide background music.
to:
* TheCameo: [[Franchise/GameOfThrones Daeneris Daenerys Targaryen, Hodor, Jon Snow,]] [[Film/TheLordOfTheRings the Eye of Sauron, high elves, an orc]], and [[Film/TheGoonies Mikey Walsh]] make silent cameos in the background, while Music/LedZeppelin appear in Tolkien’s last verse to provide background music.
Changed line(s) 22 (click to see context) from:
* GoodIsBoring: Martin argues that Tolkein's black-and-white morality makes his books way too cliche and predictable.
to:
* GoodIsBoring: Martin argues that Tolkein's Tolkien's black-and-white morality makes his books way too cliche and predictable.
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None
Changed line(s) 21 (click to see context) from:
* TheGoodGuysAlwaysWin: Tolkien defends this stance in his writing by pointing out fiction doesn't have to be realistic, so he can have the heroes win every single time if wants.
to:
* TheGoodGuysAlwaysWin: Tolkien defends this stance in his writing by pointing out fiction doesn't have fantasy is ''supposed to be realistic, unrealistic'', so he can have the heroes win every single time if wants.
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None
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* TheCameo: [[Franchise/GameOfThrones Daeneris Targaryen, Hodor, Jon Snow,]] [[Franchise/LordOfTheRings the Eye of Sauron, high elves, an orc]], and [[Film/TheGoonies Mikey Walsh]] make silent cameos in the background, while Music/LedZeppelin appear in Tolkien’s last verse to provide background music.
to:
* TheCameo: [[Franchise/GameOfThrones Daeneris Targaryen, Hodor, Jon Snow,]] [[Franchise/LordOfTheRings [[Film/TheLordOfTheRings the Eye of Sauron, high elves, an orc]], and [[Film/TheGoonies Mikey Walsh]] make silent cameos in the background, while Music/LedZeppelin appear in Tolkien’s last verse to provide background music.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* TheCameo: [[Franchise/GameOfThrones Daeneris Targaryen, Hodor, Jon Snow,]] [[Franchise/LordOfTheRings the Eye of Sauron, high elves, an orc]], and [[Film/TheGoonies Mikey Walsh]] make silent cameos in the background.
to:
* TheCameo: [[Franchise/GameOfThrones Daeneris Targaryen, Hodor, Jon Snow,]] [[Franchise/LordOfTheRings the Eye of Sauron, high elves, an orc]], and [[Film/TheGoonies Mikey Walsh]] make silent cameos in the background.background, while Music/LedZeppelin appear in Tolkien’s last verse to provide background music.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 4 (click to see context) from:
* AngstAversion: Tolkien disapproves of Martin's habit of randomly killing his characters.
to:
* AngstAversion: InUniverse, Tolkien disapproves of Martin's habit of randomly killing his characters.
Changed line(s) 8,9 (click to see context) from:
* TheCameo: [[Franchise/GameOfThrones Daeneris Targaryen, Hodor, Jon Snow,]] [[Francise/LordOfTheRings the Eye of Sauron, high elves, an orc]], and [[Film/TheGoonies Mikey Walsh]] make silent cameos in the background.
* CashCowFranchise: Tolkien boasts that his franchise makes billions of dollars for his family.
* CashCowFranchise: Tolkien boasts that his franchise makes billions of dollars for his family.
to:
* TheCameo: [[Franchise/GameOfThrones Daeneris Targaryen, Hodor, Jon Snow,]] [[Francise/LordOfTheRings [[Franchise/LordOfTheRings the Eye of Sauron, high elves, an orc]], and [[Film/TheGoonies Mikey Walsh]] make silent cameos in the background.
* CashCowFranchise: InUniverse, Tolkien boasts that his franchise makes billions of dollars for his family.
* CashCowFranchise: InUniverse, Tolkien boasts that his franchise makes billions of dollars for his family.
Changed line(s) 20 (click to see context) from:
* FollowTheLeader: Martin is accused of being "[[TheyCopiedItSoItSucks an uninspired hack]]" by Tolkien, who claims that he even stole the R. R.
to:
* FollowTheLeader: InUniverse, Martin is accused of being "[[TheyCopiedItSoItSucks an uninspired hack]]" by Tolkien, who claims that he even stole the R. R.
Changed line(s) 51 (click to see context) from:
* TrollingCreator: Openly making fun of his readers' shocked reaction when he kills their favorite characters.
to:
* TrollingCreator: Openly Martin is depicted InUniverse as openly making fun of his readers' shocked reaction when he kills their favorite characters.
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None
Added DiffLines:
Season 5 starts off with a battle of the ages between fantasy authors Creator/JRRTolkien (played by Peter Shukoff) and Creator/GeorgeRRMartin (played by Lloyd Ahlquist.)
----
!!TROPES
* AngstAversion: Tolkien disapproves of Martin's habit of randomly killing his characters.
* TheAntiNihilist: Tolkien doesn't necessarily disagree with Martin's view that the world is chaotic and bad things happen, but notes that the fantasy genre is to provide an escape from those harsh realities.
* AnyoneCanDie: Martin fully embraces this mindset in his stories and mocks Tolkien for sticking to TheGoodGuysAlwaysWin.
* BadassBeard: Fittingly for an author of medieval fantasy, George RR Martin could be some grizzled warrior carrying an axe with a beard like this.
* TheCameo: [[Franchise/GameOfThrones Daeneris Targaryen, Hodor, Jon Snow,]] [[Francise/LordOfTheRings the Eye of Sauron, high elves, an orc]], and [[Film/TheGoonies Mikey Walsh]] make silent cameos in the background.
* CashCowFranchise: Tolkien boasts that his franchise makes billions of dollars for his family.
* CoolOldGuy: Tolkien’s more Rock and Roll than Martin, just ask Music/LedZeppelin!
* DarkerAndEdgier: Martin says Game of Thrones has more death, despair and other dark stuff than Lord of the Rings.
* DirtyCoward: Tolkien thinks Martin is a coward for his history of DraftDodging.
* DirtyOldMan: Martin shows a few signs of this when he gleefully talks about how much sex he puts in his books.
* DistinguishedGentlemansPipe: Fitting for an Oxford professor, Tolkien carries and uses a smoking pipe.
* DraftDodging: Martin’s conscientious objector status is contrasted with Tolkien's experiences.
* {{Escapism}}: Tolkien defends his more idealistic writing style by claiming that the Fantasy genre is ''meant'' to be unrealistic.
* FatBastard: Tolkien makes several digs about Martin’s weight in addition to his unpleasantness.
* FatIdiot: What Tolkien thinks of Martin, as Tolkien claims that Martin and Jon Snow both know nothing.
* {{Flanderization}}: Martin's incarnation in the battle is more in keeping with TheThemeParkVersion idea of his books and [[Series/GameOfThrones the related TV show]]. Amongst other things he accuses Tolkien of letting good guys survive and bad guys die (which ignores Thorin, Boromir, Denethor and the Scourging of the Shire, not to mention the Bible of death and suffering that is ''Literature/TheSilmarillion'') and having too much detail in his books (each volume of ''A Song of Ice and Fire'' has dozens of pages on characters' genealogy alone, and backstory that goes back decades is often vital to characters' motivations). The RealLife Martin has repeatedly expressed admiration for Tolkien and likewise stated that Tolkien's books have the {{Unbuilt Trope}}s his own series drew from, and has claimed that one of his problems with Tolkien is when he [[https://www.tolkiensociety.org/2014/04/grrm-asks-what-was-aragorns-tax-policy/ is too reductive and not detailed enough]].
* FollowTheLeader: Martin is accused of being "[[TheyCopiedItSoItSucks an uninspired hack]]" by Tolkien, who claims that he even stole the R. R.
* TheGoodGuysAlwaysWin: Tolkien defends this stance in his writing by pointing out fiction doesn't have to be realistic, so he can have the heroes win every single time if wants.
* GoodIsBoring: Martin argues that Tolkein's black-and-white morality makes his books way too cliche and predictable.
* HotterAndSexier: Martin says someone would need an all-seeing eye to find sex in Tolkien's stories, while it is much more apparent in his own.
* HurricaneOfPuns: Puns on ''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings'' titles in Tolkien’s last lines:
-->You can't reach this fellow. Shit, I'm too towering.\\
Every time I battle, it's return of the king.
* HypocriticalHumor:
** Martin accuses Tolkien of bogging down his stories with excessive detail, even though ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' is pretty detail-heavy itself.
** Martin is incredulous that a chain smoker like Tolkien would lecture him about his unhealthy life choices.
--->''Man, your fat jokes are worse than your pipe smoke!''
* InsultBackfire: Tolkien spends most of the battle turning Martin's disses on their head. His character deaths are predictable because he writes ''fantasy'', his extensive worldbuilding made ''Literature/TheSilmarillion'' a successful book, Music/LedZeppelin was inspired by his works, making ''him'' more "rock and roll" than Martin, etc.
* LeanAndMean: Tolkien gets in several shots at Martin's weight, who happens to have a lot more of it than him.
* LighterAndSofter: Martin mocks Tolkien’s works for being more light-hearted/family-friendly than his own. Tolkien doesn't see this as a bad thing.
--> '''Tolkien:''' Newsflash: the genre's called fantasy! It's meant to be unrealistic; you '''MYOPIC MANATEE!'''
* NiceHat: Martin wears his trademark fisherman's cap.
* PretenderDiss: Tolkien mocks Martin for being a [=LARP=]er instead of a real soldier, in addition to his novel writing; "You and Jon Snow both know nothing!"
* RealityEnsues: Tolkien concedes that it is more true to life for characters to die randomly no matter who they are.
* RetiredBadass: Tolkien motions his status veteran of World War I, specifically taking part in the Battle of the Somme.
* {{Sadist}}: Martin shows signs of this, considering he lets his readers grow attached to his characters, only to gleefully kill them off.
* SexSells: Martin believes this and gives this advice to Tolkien. ("Ditch the Goonie, cast a couple boobies!")
* SharpDressedMan: It's the reason Tolkien gets called "Professor Tweedpants" by Martin. He retaliates by saying he doesn't take criticism on clothes.
* ShockingSwerve: Invoked.
--> '''Martin:''' My readers fall in love with every character I've written.\\
Then I kill them! And they're like, "No, he didn't!"
* SlobsVsSnobs: George RR Martin is very raunchy and vulgar, while JRR Tolkien is dressed in a tweed jacket and smokes a DistinguishedGentlemansPipe.
* SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism: Martin takes the cynical approach and mocks the BlackAndWhiteMorality of Tolkien's prose. Tolkien, meanwhile, defends the idealistic approach on the grounds that it's the part of the point of the fantasy genre, and as such, doesn't have to be realistic ''or'' cynical.
* SophisticatedAsHell: While Tolkien makes his gentlemanly verbal jabs, he has friggin' ''Music/LedZeppelin'' back up his rhymes.
* StrictlyFormula: Martin claims this of Tolkien’s books; "you can tell what's going to happen by page and age 5!"
* SuddenlyShouting: Several times, Tolkien goes from speaking calmly to shouting at the top of his lungs.
-->Creator/CSLewis and I were just discussing, how you and Jon Snow '''BOTH KNOW NOTHING!'''
* TrollingCreator: Openly making fun of his readers' shocked reaction when he kills their favorite characters.
* {{Worldbuilding}}: Martin thinks Tolkien takes it too far ("we don't need the backstory on every fucking tree branch!"). Tolkien defends it by claiming his ''Silmarillion'' is doing pretty well on sales.
----
!!TROPES
* AngstAversion: Tolkien disapproves of Martin's habit of randomly killing his characters.
* TheAntiNihilist: Tolkien doesn't necessarily disagree with Martin's view that the world is chaotic and bad things happen, but notes that the fantasy genre is to provide an escape from those harsh realities.
* AnyoneCanDie: Martin fully embraces this mindset in his stories and mocks Tolkien for sticking to TheGoodGuysAlwaysWin.
* BadassBeard: Fittingly for an author of medieval fantasy, George RR Martin could be some grizzled warrior carrying an axe with a beard like this.
* TheCameo: [[Franchise/GameOfThrones Daeneris Targaryen, Hodor, Jon Snow,]] [[Francise/LordOfTheRings the Eye of Sauron, high elves, an orc]], and [[Film/TheGoonies Mikey Walsh]] make silent cameos in the background.
* CashCowFranchise: Tolkien boasts that his franchise makes billions of dollars for his family.
* CoolOldGuy: Tolkien’s more Rock and Roll than Martin, just ask Music/LedZeppelin!
* DarkerAndEdgier: Martin says Game of Thrones has more death, despair and other dark stuff than Lord of the Rings.
* DirtyCoward: Tolkien thinks Martin is a coward for his history of DraftDodging.
* DirtyOldMan: Martin shows a few signs of this when he gleefully talks about how much sex he puts in his books.
* DistinguishedGentlemansPipe: Fitting for an Oxford professor, Tolkien carries and uses a smoking pipe.
* DraftDodging: Martin’s conscientious objector status is contrasted with Tolkien's experiences.
* {{Escapism}}: Tolkien defends his more idealistic writing style by claiming that the Fantasy genre is ''meant'' to be unrealistic.
* FatBastard: Tolkien makes several digs about Martin’s weight in addition to his unpleasantness.
* FatIdiot: What Tolkien thinks of Martin, as Tolkien claims that Martin and Jon Snow both know nothing.
* {{Flanderization}}: Martin's incarnation in the battle is more in keeping with TheThemeParkVersion idea of his books and [[Series/GameOfThrones the related TV show]]. Amongst other things he accuses Tolkien of letting good guys survive and bad guys die (which ignores Thorin, Boromir, Denethor and the Scourging of the Shire, not to mention the Bible of death and suffering that is ''Literature/TheSilmarillion'') and having too much detail in his books (each volume of ''A Song of Ice and Fire'' has dozens of pages on characters' genealogy alone, and backstory that goes back decades is often vital to characters' motivations). The RealLife Martin has repeatedly expressed admiration for Tolkien and likewise stated that Tolkien's books have the {{Unbuilt Trope}}s his own series drew from, and has claimed that one of his problems with Tolkien is when he [[https://www.tolkiensociety.org/2014/04/grrm-asks-what-was-aragorns-tax-policy/ is too reductive and not detailed enough]].
* FollowTheLeader: Martin is accused of being "[[TheyCopiedItSoItSucks an uninspired hack]]" by Tolkien, who claims that he even stole the R. R.
* TheGoodGuysAlwaysWin: Tolkien defends this stance in his writing by pointing out fiction doesn't have to be realistic, so he can have the heroes win every single time if wants.
* GoodIsBoring: Martin argues that Tolkein's black-and-white morality makes his books way too cliche and predictable.
* HotterAndSexier: Martin says someone would need an all-seeing eye to find sex in Tolkien's stories, while it is much more apparent in his own.
* HurricaneOfPuns: Puns on ''Literature/TheLordOfTheRings'' titles in Tolkien’s last lines:
-->You can't reach this fellow. Shit, I'm too towering.\\
Every time I battle, it's return of the king.
* HypocriticalHumor:
** Martin accuses Tolkien of bogging down his stories with excessive detail, even though ''Literature/ASongOfIceAndFire'' is pretty detail-heavy itself.
** Martin is incredulous that a chain smoker like Tolkien would lecture him about his unhealthy life choices.
--->''Man, your fat jokes are worse than your pipe smoke!''
* InsultBackfire: Tolkien spends most of the battle turning Martin's disses on their head. His character deaths are predictable because he writes ''fantasy'', his extensive worldbuilding made ''Literature/TheSilmarillion'' a successful book, Music/LedZeppelin was inspired by his works, making ''him'' more "rock and roll" than Martin, etc.
* LeanAndMean: Tolkien gets in several shots at Martin's weight, who happens to have a lot more of it than him.
* LighterAndSofter: Martin mocks Tolkien’s works for being more light-hearted/family-friendly than his own. Tolkien doesn't see this as a bad thing.
--> '''Tolkien:''' Newsflash: the genre's called fantasy! It's meant to be unrealistic; you '''MYOPIC MANATEE!'''
* NiceHat: Martin wears his trademark fisherman's cap.
* PretenderDiss: Tolkien mocks Martin for being a [=LARP=]er instead of a real soldier, in addition to his novel writing; "You and Jon Snow both know nothing!"
* RealityEnsues: Tolkien concedes that it is more true to life for characters to die randomly no matter who they are.
* RetiredBadass: Tolkien motions his status veteran of World War I, specifically taking part in the Battle of the Somme.
* {{Sadist}}: Martin shows signs of this, considering he lets his readers grow attached to his characters, only to gleefully kill them off.
* SexSells: Martin believes this and gives this advice to Tolkien. ("Ditch the Goonie, cast a couple boobies!")
* SharpDressedMan: It's the reason Tolkien gets called "Professor Tweedpants" by Martin. He retaliates by saying he doesn't take criticism on clothes.
* ShockingSwerve: Invoked.
--> '''Martin:''' My readers fall in love with every character I've written.\\
Then I kill them! And they're like, "No, he didn't!"
* SlobsVsSnobs: George RR Martin is very raunchy and vulgar, while JRR Tolkien is dressed in a tweed jacket and smokes a DistinguishedGentlemansPipe.
* SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism: Martin takes the cynical approach and mocks the BlackAndWhiteMorality of Tolkien's prose. Tolkien, meanwhile, defends the idealistic approach on the grounds that it's the part of the point of the fantasy genre, and as such, doesn't have to be realistic ''or'' cynical.
* SophisticatedAsHell: While Tolkien makes his gentlemanly verbal jabs, he has friggin' ''Music/LedZeppelin'' back up his rhymes.
* StrictlyFormula: Martin claims this of Tolkien’s books; "you can tell what's going to happen by page and age 5!"
* SuddenlyShouting: Several times, Tolkien goes from speaking calmly to shouting at the top of his lungs.
-->Creator/CSLewis and I were just discussing, how you and Jon Snow '''BOTH KNOW NOTHING!'''
* TrollingCreator: Openly making fun of his readers' shocked reaction when he kills their favorite characters.
* {{Worldbuilding}}: Martin thinks Tolkien takes it too far ("we don't need the backstory on every fucking tree branch!"). Tolkien defends it by claiming his ''Silmarillion'' is doing pretty well on sales.
