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This is basically the emotional result of [[ShadesOfConflict Black And Black Morality]]. Because the conflict between the equally evils is essentially meaningless, there is no dramatic tension. Maybe one EldritchAbomination eats you in a slightly less painful manner than the other one, but either way, you're still screwed. You can't support any factions or [[SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism hold on to any ideals after this effect has set in]]. All you can do is sit agape as the writers apparently attempt to outdo themselves at making the setting [[ItGotWorse even worse and more unpleasant and more nihilistic]] to the point where the media is as monotone-miserable as ''JoyDivision.''

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This is basically the emotional result of [[ShadesOfConflict Black And Black Morality]]. Because the conflict between the equally evils is essentially meaningless, there is no dramatic tension. Maybe one EldritchAbomination eats you in a slightly less painful manner than the other one, but either way, you're still screwed. You can't support any factions or [[SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism hold on to any ideals after this effect has set in]]. All you can do is sit agape as the writers apparently attempt to outdo themselves at making the setting [[ItGotWorse even worse and more unpleasant and more nihilistic]] to the point where the media is as monotone-miserable as ''JoyDivision.''
JoyDivision.
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-->-- [[SpiderMan The Green Goblin]] of TheRandomverse to TheJoker

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-->-- [[SpiderMan '''[[SpiderMan The Green Goblin]] Goblin]]''' of TheRandomverse ''TheRandomverse'' to TheJoker
'''TheJoker'''

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* Done [[NarmCharm beautifully]] in MDGeist. our [[HeroicSociopath hero]] '''really''' [[NotSoDifferent isn't any better]] than the BigBad and eventually ''[[spoiler:releases the [[ZombieApocalypse Death Force]]]]'' simply because he knows how meaningless his life would be with out [[BloodKnight something nasty to fight]].



** [[EverythingIsBetterWithMonkeys well the monkey was okay]].



* A common problem in horror movies: the cast of potential victims is presented as a bunch of [[JerkAss obnoxious jerks]], and/or [[TooDumbToLive complete idiots,]] to the point where it's hard to feel bad for them when they finally start dying.

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* A common problem in horror movies: the cast of potential victims is presented as a bunch of [[JerkAss obnoxious jerks]], and/or [[TooDumbToLive complete idiots,]] to the point where it's hard to feel bad for them when they finally start dying. [[RootingForTheEmpire Although for many that's part of the appeal]].




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* Many players and [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_Ex:_Invisible_War#cite_ref-gsptrvw_23-0 critics]] felt this way about DeusExInvisibleWar. All the factions have questionable goals and are willing to [[KickTheDog kick a few dogs]] to achieved them. It's telling that your [[TakeAThirdOption given to the option]] to KillThemAll [[OmnicidalNeutral and let god sort them out]]. [[spoiler:Which [[PlayerPunch backfires]] [[EndOfTheWorldSpecial dramatically]].]]
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that's not really true. it's more when gameplay and story fail to intersect resulting in Moral Dissonance. like In Bad Company you own firing on you to make the game harder the like in RPG where no minds you nicking stuff. he like games where the hero is a bastard and the game knows it.


* ''EveOnline'': After a certain point, endless, stalemated, massively PlayerVersusPlayer wars become indistinguishable from PerpetuallyStatic.
* One of [[ZeroPunctuation Yahtzee's]] common criticisms of video-games with {{Black And Gray Morality}} is that often the writers fail to give either side of the game's conflict any sympathetic qualities, leaving the player fighting for/as an unlikeable group/character, against a group/character that are even worse. As mentioned in his review of Bad Company 2:
-->'''Yahtzee''': Is there not some third side to this conflict I can join? Preferably one that isn't full of dicks?


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->Making every hero on earth as [[DarkerAndEdgier dark]] as {{Batman}}? That was your master plan? [[SarcasmMode Great]]. So, after the audience gets bored to tears by every hero being just like every other hero, they'll be so depressed over how freakin' BLEAK they are, they'll KILL THEMSELVES!
-->-- [[SpiderMan The Green Goblin]] of TheRandomverse to TheJoker
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* A common problem in horror movies: the cast of potential victims is presented as a bunch of [[JerkAss obnoxious jerks]], and/or [[TooDumbToLive complete idiots,]] to the point where it's hard to feel bad for them when they finally start dying.
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Removed Angel. The fact that Angel is fighting a battle he can't win is a completely different trope.


* ''{{Angel}}'' could be said to devolve into this, partly because none of the seasons offer any kind of meaningful resolution to the Wolfram and Hart conflict, the evil demon-run law firm that is engineering the end of the world. The best they could do in the end was to murder some of their top agents, but it's made clear that this will only delay the Apocalypse, not stop it, as it is already underway and both this and ''[[BuffyTheVampireSlayer Buffy]]'' suggest that Earth itself is {{Hell}} anyway. The other [[BigBad Big Bads]] who show up and are not connected to Wolfram & Hart- Holtz, Jasmine and Illyria- are basically side-stories that exist to offer the heroes some chance of victory.
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Nineties Anti Hero are not Saint, but still much less bad than the rates they face


* The DarkAge of Comics frequently descended into so much DarkerAndEdgier that the [[NinetiesAntiHero heroes became near indistinguishable from the villains]] and thus dramatic tension slipped, audiences got bored, and RobLiefeld quickly achieved FallenCreator status.
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* CityOfHeroes has recently introduced an ExpansionPackWorld called Praetoria, where players either support the the EvilOverlord Emperor Cole, or the Resistance, who could qualify as WellIntentionedExtremist if it weren't for the monsters ready to wipe out the last remnants of human life the minute the sonic barriers the Emperor set up go down.

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** It's AnAesop on how [[TruthInTelevision some people in real life refuse to vote altogether, because they just see, well, a douche and a turd arguing with each other about who's a bigger douche or turd.]]

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** It's AnAesop on how [[TruthInTelevision some people in real life refuse to vote altogether, altogether]], [[DontExplainTheJoke because they just see, well, a douche and a turd arguing with each other about who's a bigger douche or turd.]]



<<|AudienceReactionTropes|>>
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* Lampshaded in [[TheRandomverse Marvel and DC: After Hours]] by the Green Goblin, in which he states that The Joker's plan to make all the superheroes DarkerAndEdgier {{Nineties Antihero}}es will fail since without [[LighterAndSofter more idealistic]] heroes as contrast, DarkerAndEdgier loses its appeal.

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* Lampshaded Brought up in [[TheRandomverse Marvel and DC: After Hours]] by the Green Goblin, in which he states that The Joker's plan to make all the superheroes DarkerAndEdgier {{Nineties Antihero}}es will fail since without [[LighterAndSofter more idealistic]] heroes as contrast, DarkerAndEdgier loses its appeal.
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Why didn't you just delete it, and put all this into the edit reasons. But, yeah, xenophobic? Most of the hostilities early in the film is being protective more than anything.


* One of the many reasons {{Avatar}}'s story caught flak was that the two factions are a massively xenophobic race of tree-hugger stereotypes and a pile of profiteering SpaceMarines and CorruptCorporateExecutives. But the effects were decent.
** I'm sorry, "massively xenophobic" how? Pray tell, what did the Na'Vi do that was xenophobic...as opposed to the humans who routinely used racial slurs, executed a massacre, and had no problem manipulating and killing the Na'Vi to get ''spaceship fuel''. The worse you can say about the Na'Vai, if you're ''honest'', is that they were naive to trust the humans in the first place (including letting ''their children be taught by humans'', some xenophobes yeah!?) and foolish to think they could win using such basic weapons against a spacefaring culture with guided missiles and gunpowder. The only reason the Na'Vi won was because of their God helping them. But the (groundbreaking, state-of-the-art) effects were "decent". By which, of course, you mean "I didn't like it so I'll make up false accusations". I'd like to see the evidence for "xenophobia" on the part of the Na'Vi who, mind you, ''allowed their children to be educated by Humans'' despite the fact the humans were ''actively'' trying to kill them. [[SarcasmMode Clearly they were Nazis.]] [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking But the effects were "decent".]]
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And before anyone calls this "natter", would you kindly try and prove the Na'Vi were "xenophobes" before trying to use some obtruse rules-lawyering to cover up the blatant, and unfounded, [1]?

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**I'm sorry, "massively xenophobic" how? Pray tell, what did the Na'Vi do that was xenophobic...as opposed to the humans who routinely used racial slurs, executed a massacre, and had no problem manipulating and killing the Na'Vi to get ''spaceship fuel''. The worse you can say about the Na'Vai, if you're ''honest'', is that they were naive to trust the humans in the first place (including letting ''their children be taught by humans'', some xenophobes yeah!?) and foolish to think they could win using such basic weapons against a spacefaring culture with guided missiles and gunpowder. The only reason the Na'Vi won was because of their God helping them. But the (groundbreaking, state-of-the-art) effects were "decent". By which, of course, you mean "I didn't like it so I'll make up false accusations". I'd like to see the evidence for "xenophobia" on the part of the Na'Vi who, mind you, ''allowed their children to be educated by Humans'' despite the fact the humans were ''actively'' trying to kill them. [[SarcasmMode Clearly they were Nazis.]] [[ArsonMurderAndJaywalking But the effects were "decent".]]
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* Nice in-universe example in {{Babylon 5}}. In the beginning (no pun intended) the protagonists are very much on the side of (in the pocket of?) the Vorlons in their war against the Shadows, but in the course of the show it becomes clear to them that both sides are just as bad as each and decide that the best way to deal with them is simply to not go along with either of them any more.

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* Nice in-universe example subversion in {{Babylon 5}}. In the beginning (no pun word play intended) the protagonists are very much on the side of (in the pocket of?) the Vorlons in their war against the Shadows, but in the course of the show it becomes clear to them that both sides are just as bad as each and decide that the best way to deal with them is simply to not go along with either of them any more.

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** Watchmen, though suffers from TheGreatPoliticsMessUp making the choice far darker, as we know the ColdWar could end on its own peacefully. If you thought the option was between a horrible lie and a few million dead or the end of all life many would pick the horrible lie.

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** Watchmen, though suffers from TheGreatPoliticsMessUp making the choice far darker, as we know the ColdWar could end on its own peacefully. If you thought the option was between a horrible lie and a few million dead or the end of all life many would pick the horrible lie. lie.
*** There's also the fact that [[spoiler: Ozymandias's actions to stop the nuclear apocalypse are largely what raised tensions to a critical point to begin with. Even at the end, when he speaks with Dr. Manhattan, his choices come off to me as foolish, naive and a demonstration of the utterly monstrous consequences of allowing anyone too much power.]] Virtually none of history's worst monsters saw themselves as such.
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* Really, BlackLagoon can fall into this for most people, especially in it's early stages. It just doesn't help that the 'heroes' are just a bunch of murderous criminals...and it gets worse the further down the character roster you go.

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* Really, BlackLagoon can fall into this for most people, especially in it's its early stages. It just doesn't help that the 'heroes' are just a bunch of murderous criminals...and it gets worse the further down the character roster you go.



* Lampshaded in [[TheRandomverse Marvel and DC: After Hours]] by the Green Goblin, in which he states that The Joker's plan to make all the superheroes DarkerAndEdgier {{Nineties Antihero}}es will fail since without [[LighterAndSofter more idealistic]] heroes as contrast, DarkerAndEdgier loses it's appeal.

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* Lampshaded in [[TheRandomverse Marvel and DC: After Hours]] by the Green Goblin, in which he states that The Joker's plan to make all the superheroes DarkerAndEdgier {{Nineties Antihero}}es will fail since without [[LighterAndSofter more idealistic]] heroes as contrast, DarkerAndEdgier loses it's its appeal.
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* Nice in-universe example in {{Babylon 5}}. In the beginning (no pun intended) the protagonists are very much on the side of (in the pocket of?) the Vorlons in their war against the Shadows, but in the course of the show it becomes clear to them that both sides are just as bad as each and decide that the best way to deal with them is simply to not go along with either of them any more.
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It's more complicated than that.


* {{Supernatural}} suffers rather badly from this. The viewer knows life sucks for the Winchesters. The viewer knows life will continue to suck for the Winchesters. The viewer knows the villains and danger to the world will continue to escalate. The viewer knows that any spots of hope are doomed. And the show never proves the viewer wrong.

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* {{Supernatural}} suffers rather can suffer badly from this. The viewer knows life Life sucks for the Winchesters. The viewer knows life will main characters, and as much as they try, people continue to suck die and there's not much they can do to stop natural human evil. However, as hard as things get for them, it's emphasized that they DO save lives. In the Winchesters. The viewer knows long run of the villains and danger show, they also manage to successfully save the world will continue to escalate. The viewer knows that any spots and find some measure of hope are doomed. And the show never proves the viewer wrong. peace.
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** Are you kidding me? Helo is indirectly responsible for ALL humans deaths from Cylons after he [[spoiler: sabotaged the plan to send a virus to the resurrection ship that would have killed all the human cylons]].

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* One of the many reasons {{Avatar}}'s story caught some flak was because the two factions were either a massively xenophobic race of tree-huggers or a faction of profiteering SpaceMarines and CorruptCorporateExecutives. But the effects were decent.
** [[YourMileageMayVary Not really sure why]] 'xenophobia' is being listed as a reason to consider the Na'vi too immoral to like; it's ''their world'' that's being invaded. As [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitle1d5irnza?from=Film.Nine 1]] would say, "Sometimes xenophobia is the appropriate response." Also not sure why "tree-hugging" is being classified under BlackAndBlackMorality, since while a pro-environment message may be [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Anvilicious annoying]], it's rarely seen as ''evil.''
*** Unless we're talking about the Seven Angels/Dragons of Earth from {{X1999}}.
** To be fair, while the na'vi are understandably upset, understanding can only go so far and does not escuse, say, burning down schools set up to try and foster peace. There's a difference between repelling invaders and actively sabotaging any attempts to find a peaceful solution.
*** Okay, a race of xenophobic ''TooDumbToLive'' aliens and trigger-happy CorruptCorporateExecutives. That better?

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* One of the many reasons {{Avatar}}'s story caught some flak was because that the two factions were either are a massively xenophobic race of tree-huggers or tree-hugger stereotypes and a faction pile of profiteering SpaceMarines and CorruptCorporateExecutives. But the effects were decent.
** [[YourMileageMayVary Not really sure why]] 'xenophobia' is being listed as a reason to consider the Na'vi too immoral to like; it's ''their world'' that's being invaded. As [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitle1d5irnza?from=Film.Nine 1]] would say, "Sometimes xenophobia is the appropriate response." Also not sure why "tree-hugging" is being classified under BlackAndBlackMorality, since while a pro-environment message may be [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Anvilicious annoying]], it's rarely seen as ''evil.''
*** Unless we're talking about the Seven Angels/Dragons of Earth from {{X1999}}.
** To be fair, while the na'vi are understandably upset, understanding can only go so far and does not escuse, say, burning down schools set up to try and foster peace. There's a difference between repelling invaders and actively sabotaging any attempts to find a peaceful solution.
*** Okay, a race of xenophobic ''TooDumbToLive'' aliens and trigger-happy CorruptCorporateExecutives. That better?
decent.
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** Thankfully, Marvel seems to have learned its lesson, ushering in a new "Heroic Age."
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Dispensing with metaphors, Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy occurs when there is no meaningful conflict in the first place because all sides are abhorrently, equally evil. As such, consumers of media affected by Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy tend to approach conflict between parties or factions with remarkable indifference; because no matter who wins, the [[CrapsackWorld universe will still suck]]. (And while it would be really nice to see them ''all lose'', it ain't going to happen.)

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Dispensing with metaphors, Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy occurs when there is no meaningful conflict in the first place because all sides are abhorrently, equally evil. As such, consumers of media affected by Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy tend to approach conflict between parties or factions with remarkable indifference; because no matter who wins, the [[CrapsackWorld universe will still suck]]. (And while it would be really nice to see them ''all lose'', it ain't going to happen.)
) In other words, ''there is nothing at stake''.
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* Really, BlackLagoon can fall into this for most people, especially in it's early stages. It just doesn't help that the 'heroes' are just a bunch of murderous criminals...and it gets worse the further down the character roster you go.
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** It gets worse through the game. You can sorta sympathize with the military splinter cells, as KnightTemplar soldiers who do whats necessary, until you find out they made the virus [[spoiler: to kill black people, basically]].
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**Are you kidding me? Helo is indirectly responsible for ALL humans deaths from Cylons after he [[spoiler: sabotaged the plan to send a virus to the resurrection ship that would have killed all the human cylons]].
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Pandora is not actually a "planet", it's really a moon.


** [[YourMileageMayVary Not really sure why]] 'xenophobia' is being listed as a reason to consider the Na'vi too immoral to like; it's ''their planet'' that's being invaded. As [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitle1d5irnza?from=Film.Nine 1]] would say, "Sometimes xenophobia is the appropriate response." Also not sure why "tree-hugging" is being classified under BlackAndBlackMorality, since while a pro-environment message may be [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Anvilicious annoying]], it's rarely seen as ''evil.''

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** [[YourMileageMayVary Not really sure why]] 'xenophobia' is being listed as a reason to consider the Na'vi too immoral to like; it's ''their planet'' world'' that's being invaded. As [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitle1d5irnza?from=Film.Nine 1]] would say, "Sometimes xenophobia is the appropriate response." Also not sure why "tree-hugging" is being classified under BlackAndBlackMorality, since while a pro-environment message may be [[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Anvilicious annoying]], it's rarely seen as ''evil.''
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** This comes full circle when it is revealed that [[spoiler: at the highest levels, the Watches are actually working together; the conflict between them is mostly for the sake of keeping the Others away from normal people, and the Watches often deliberately sabotage their own efforts to overtly influence human society. Their ''real'' plans to improve the world are much more subtle and cooperative.]]
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*** Okay, a race of xenophobic ''TooDumbToLive'' aliens and trigger-happy CorruptCorporateExecutives. That better?

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* By the end of ''TheSopranos'', pretty much every character with dialogue has proven themselves to be pretty hideous excuses for human beings.

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* By the end of ''TheSopranos'', pretty much every character with dialogue has proven themselves to be pretty hideous excuses for human beings. beings.
** HBO is famous for this, actually - {{Rome}} is full of ambitious, petty, and murderous "heroes"; SixFeetUnder features characters who are not exactly evil, but tend to be so weak, neurotic, or just apathetic that the events of their lives are at least as doomed as anything in a SoapOpera, etc. At least the writing tends to be excellent.

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