History Literature / DiscoursesOnLivy

* AuthorityEqualsAsskicking: Any state (or regime) which didn't kick sufficient ass was not around for long. Machiavelli actually had been on the wrong side of an ass-kicking while writing both this and ''Literature/ThePrince''.

''The Discourses on the First Ten Books of Titus Livy'', often referred to as ''The Discourses'' or ''Discourses on Livy'', is the second most well known book after ''Literature/ThePrince'' (which is to say not very) by Creator/NiccoloMachiavelli. It covers the first ten books of Titus Livy's ''Ab Urbe Condita'', as well as throwing in a number of other historical and (then) current examples and advice as to how to run a republic; it also includes some advice on how to run a Principality, and there is some overlap with ''The Prince'' in places.

%% * LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters: One of the main reasons that Machiavelli gives for the strength of Republics.

* DemocracyIsFlawed: Unrestrained democracy, anyway. He believed that democracy had a large role to play in preserving liberty, though.

* CorruptChurch: He viewed the Catholic Church as this. At the time, he was unquestionably right.

* GoldenMeanFallacy: Averted. When you conquer someone, you should be either kind or completely ruthless.

* GreyAndGrayMorality: Plenty of it.

* LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters: One of the main reasons that Machiavelli gives for the strength of Republics.
* MyCountryRightOrWrong
* NoGoodDeedGoesUnpunished: Unless that good deed just happens to be part of a calculated ploy.

* PatrioticFervor: He viewed it as essential in establishing and maintaining liberty and a republic.
* ProperlyParanoid: He advised most cities to be this, and wrote a very long chapter about conspiracies. He advised conspirators to be even more paranoid.
* RenaissanceMan: Machiavelli was certainly one, and many of those he singles out for praise are as well.
* [[RockBeatsLaser Sword Beats Artillery]]: While he felt firearms were useful in some circumstances, he was generally dismissive. Given the firearms of his time were quite inaccurate and would take some centuries to improve to a standard where they could be used much more efficiently, this mostly a practical concern than anything else.

* ToWinWithoutFighting: Whenever possible.

* WorthyOpponent: He viewed plenty of people from the Turks to Hannibal this way.

* AuthorityEqualsAsskicking: Any state (or regime) which didn't kick sufficient ass was not around for long. Machiavelli actually had been on the wrong side of an ass-kicking while writing both this and ''ThePrince''.

See also ''ThePrince''.

!This work provides examples of:

Much of it revolves on the difference between different sets of morality, namely the old pagan morality and the current Christian morality. There is a lot of focus on doing what is necessary, even if it's not good. He also writes quite a lot about ''virtu'' (meaning those actions which are becoming of a good man) and how a republic cannot last without it, and how lacking it was in the then present day (chiefly because of Christianity). If this sounds familiar, and you've read [[Creator/FriedrichNietzsche Nietzsche]], it should: Nietzsche read Machiavelli well and took this premise as an important element. His conclusions, however, are rather different.

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* HistoryMarchesOn: Knowledge of historical events has become rather more detailed and accurate in the last 500 years.

[[quoteright:330:http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/9780486461892_8431.jpg]]

''The Discourses on the First Ten Books of Titus Livy'', often referred to as ''The Discourses'' or ''Discourses on Livy'', is the second most well known book after ''ThePrince'' (which is to say not very) by NiccoloMachiavelli. It covers the first ten books of Titus Livy's AbUrbeCondita, as well as throwing in a number of other historical and (then) current examples and advice as to how to run a republic; it also includes some advice on how to run a Principality, and there is some overlap with ''ThePrince'' in places.

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''The Discourses on the First Ten Books of Titus Livy'', often referred to as ''The Discourses'' or ''Discourses on Livy'', is the second most well known book after ''ThePrince'' (which is to say not very) by Niccolò Machiavelli. It covers the first ten books of Titus Livy's AbUrbeCondita, as well as throwing in a number of other historical and (then) current examples and advice as to how to run a republic; it also includes some advice on how to run a Principality, and there is some overlap with ''ThePrince'' in places.

[[quoteright:330:http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/9780486461892_8431.jpg\]]

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/9780486461892_8431.jpg\

* [[RockBeatsLaser Sword Beats Artillery]]: While he felt firearms were useful in some circumstances, he was generally dismissive. True given the firearms of his time (see FantasyGunControl).

* FairForItsDay: He didn't exactly sign on to the Geneva Conventions, but he was a believer in liberty (for those who deserved it).

* DemocracyIsBad: Unrestrained democracy, anyway. He believed that democracy had a large role to play in preserving liberty, though.

Much of it revolves on the difference between different sets of morality, namely the old pagan morality and the current Christian morality. There is a lot of focus on doing what is necessary, even if it's not good. He also writes quite a lot about ''virtu'' (meaning those actions which are becoming of a good man) and how a republic cannot last without it, and how lacking it was in the then present day (chiefly because of Christianity). If this sounds familiar, and you've read [[FriedrichNietzsche Nietzsche]], it should: Nietzsche read Machiavelli well and took this premise as an important element. His conclusions, however, are rather different.

!This work provides examples of:

* [=~You Can't Fight Fate~=]: You can't dictate ''Fortuna'', but you can try to steer it and prepare yourself to guard against her or take advantage of her.

* AristocratsAreEvil: Well the rural estate owning ones anyway. His advice upon taking over an area with a bunch of them is to start chopping some heads off.
* AuthorityEqualsAsskicking: Any state (or regime) which didn't kick sufficient ass was not around for long. Machiavelli actually had been on the wrong side of an ass kicking while writing both this and ThePrince.
* BalanceOfPower: He's a large advocate of observing the balance of power both in domestic politics (Upper and lower classes, and sometimes a prince) and in foreign relations.
* CorruptChurch: He viewed the Catholic Church as this. At the time he was unquestionably right.
* DemocracyIsBad: Unrestrained Democracy anyway. He believed that democracy had a large role to play in preserving liberty though.

* GoldenMeanFallacy: Averted. You should either be kind when you conquer someone or be completely ruthless.
** He did believe in mixed government though, and that no form consisting of only one could ever be as strong as one that made use of all three (Monarchy, Aristocracy, and Democracy) forms.

While he's no democrat in the current sense of the term, he did believe that the masses not only had a part to play, but that it their political involvement made a republic stronger and guaranteed liberty.

''The Discourses on the First Ten Books of Titus Livy'', often referred to as ''The Discourses'' or ''Discourses on Livy'', is the second most well known book after ''ThePrince'' (which is to say not very) by Niccolò Machiavelli. It covers the first ten books of Titus Livy's AbUrbeCondita, as well as throwing in a number of other historical and (then) current examples and advice as to how to run a republic, it also includes some advice on how to run a Principality and there is some overlap with ''ThePrince'' in places.