This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Yoshi348: Major overhaul, to organize the page somewhat. It was starting to get pretty dense, like some of the bigger tropes of old before we put the asscap media headings in. I realize that there is some room for judgement calls here, but I think I got a good mix of categories that cover enough of the bases. I realize that there will be arguments over what fits where, and that's actually half the reason I did this. This page is really suffering from heavy Natter, mainly because it's pretty much an honorary Complaining About Shows You Dont Like page. When nearly every bullet entry has 5-7 sub-bullets, that's in my opinion a sign a page is getting out of hand. Hopefully categorization disputes should lead to increased scrutiny of the examples themselves.
Yoshi348: Although I'm sure the general reasoning I cited is probably accurate, I pulled that specific age range out of my butt, so don't get too upset if I pigeonholed anybody there. After all, it's supposed to be the thought train of a clueless executive.
i don't want to be 18 to 31! i have a life to live dammit! ok, not really
Tanto: The History Channel runs programs about whatever's in the public consciousness at the time. If The X Files is big, they start making shows on aliens and Area 51. If Left Behind is big, they commission documentaries about prophecy and the Antichrist and the End Times. If The Da Vinci Code is big, they'll run shows about the Knights Templar and non-canonical religious texts and theories. If Pirates Of The Caribbean is big, they'll start researching pirates. It doesn't really have anything to do with trying to change their demographic.
Ununnilium: I'm gonna pull out the Cartoon Network example, because a single, isolated incident isn't necessarily indicative of a trend (and it's not like it's the first time they've done this):
- In March 2007, Cartoon Network showed a bunch of "kids" movies that sometimes weren't even remotely animated.
Also, the f/x entry really needs cut down — I'm confused as to what the actual change was.
Morgan Wick: Well, it's trying to come off as "it used to be unique and now it's generic" or more specifically "they used to have original shows, a unique concept, and shows that had never been repeated before, but now they have racing, shows we've seen a gazillion times already, and no original concept", but considering I had heard very little about what the "good FX" was, let alone the "universal acclaim" for it, it comes off to me as just "I liked it better the old way and Fox sux for changing it" (which I fear is what this entry will ultimately become), and the "universal acclaim" comes off as "I thought of it this way, so naturally everyone did, especially since FX gets "universal acclaim" today for shows like ''The Shield" and "Nip/Tuck". Incidentially, Hushicho, if it had been Viacom to conceive of it it would have followed the same path. A message board I (used to) frequent has been whining about TV Land adding "reality" shows and becoming disturbingly similar to VH 1 and Viacom's other channels (note how many of the examples come from Viacom).
Incidentially, and sadly, I suspect the A&E executive was boasting/bragging when he made that "joke", given the way TV works...
I read that, for all Nielsen boasts about how accurate its measurements are despite involving a very small sample, it really is insufficient for the increasing fragmentation of the modern TV landscape. This is especially true for networks with incredibly small distribution. If your network goes out to as many people as a typical Nielsen sample size, you're going to get a small fraction of that sample if anything, and 1 person out of 100 is not going to be as good a sample as 100 people out of 10,000. I suspect this is a big reason behind the seeming tendency for all cable networks to descend towards the LCD. (Notice how a lot of these examples are cases of networks becoming more like a certain template of network, akin to USA or TBS, but perhaps best personified by local broadcast channels that don't have news and aren't affiliated with a Big Three network.)</Morgan Wick>
Ununnilium: Taking it out, for now:
- f/x, once known as "The World's First Living Television Network", was unfortunately murdered by Fox (but then, what of theirs haven't they ruined?) not too long after its inception. It initially focused its original programming on a unique and lighthearted, fun apartment, with ground-breaking live shows that drew universal acclaim, as well as classic television series that, in some cases, no other network had shown since their original runs. Less than two years after this explosive and well-received creation, it deteriorated into having a scant one or two of its original shows left, and many of the other beloved programs had been eliminated in favor of shows that had been rerun ad nauseum on other networks. The last nail in the f/x coffin is commonly regarded to be Fox placing Nascar racing on it and taking off the very last of the original "apartment" themed shows. Rest in peace, the first living television network. If only it had been someone other than Fox to conceive of you...
Also, I'm confused as to what exactly the "decay" is supposed to be in the Adult Swim ones.
Morgan Wick: What's so confusing about "they're adding low-budget live-action crap"? I don't agree it's happening to the extent the entry describes, but...
Nezumi: This is too early to be indicative of a trend, but Lifetime has taken a bizarre turn towards occult/horror and monster of the week movies and shows. I'd keep an eye on it—if this keeps up, it could be a new entry here.
HeartBurn Kid: The major flaw in that plan is that it would require watching Lifetime. Ugh.
Eric DVH:Oh god, Lifetime is like this trope in reverse... FOR EVIL. First they had an entire channel full of original rapesploitation movies, then they started pumping out so many of them that they had to bring out three more channels of the same dreck. I vaguely recall several actual single-purpose Crazy Homosexual Womyn's Channels actually appearing on cable, and some kind of horrible TV channel monstrosity related to that scuzzball Oprah's "O" magazine cropping up as well.
Wiki:
- Wiki example: TV Tropes Wiki. Despite the name, this site no longer focuses on television. Over the past year, it has added movies, books, even video games to its lineup. It's rumored that it'll change its name in the near future, perhaps to something like "Tropes Wiki X-Treme".
Completely and utterly beat me to the punch. If that renaming thing is genuine, do we really have to use a name that has an "X" in it?
Yoshi348: I'd like to state that I've somehow ended up watching The Naked Brothers Band once, and I can't decide whether it's horribly godawful or a brilliant straight-faced satire. It is, indeed, a show where you watch two 9 year old kids be 9 year old kids.
Nothing wrong with that. I just don't see why its featured on TeenNick.
Ya'know, if you put them together, they're 18.
why was the blog thing deleted? though i wouls say the change was anything but gradual, i thought it was a pretty good example...
Shahai: removed the Saved by the Bell reference from the Adult Swim entry because, even while they were airing the show, CN was making it very clear that is was a one-time joke airing.
Ronfar: Considering what goes on in a typical Professional Wrestling episode, one might be able to make a case that it really is science fiction. ;)
Ununnilium: Taking out:
- Website example: Ebay was originally created as a place for people to sell and trade pez dispensers. As we all well know, in modern times, just about everyone under the sun is up for sale and can be bought off Ebay and its Hispanic associate Mercado Libre: used toothpicks, Patagonian wind, sexual favors, scrap metal... you name it, they sell it, and people even buy it!
- Except the idea that Ebay was founded for pez dispensers, was itself a marketing stunt. See the wikipedia article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebay
- A Latin American ad for Mercado Libre even Hangs a Lampshade on this by putting a man who bought a kiss on that site.
- Except the idea that Ebay was founded for pez dispensers, was itself a marketing stunt. See the wikipedia article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebay
...because the second example shows that the first one is just wrong. Also taking out Wikipedia, because it's Complaining In Example Form.
As well, I'm moving down TV Tropes; it only "works" if you read it after some other examples.
Gracie Lizzie: I know its mean to make fun of peoples typos, and hell I make plenty myself but I have to save this here before I fix it... it makes me smile:
- Another fixture is an overabundance of programs related to World War II and the Nazis (the latter often tied to the paranormal shoes)
Eric DVH: Removed the following:
- The Family Channel (later Fox Family, now ABC Family) used to be family-oriented, obviously; now it shows movies like Not Another Teen Movie and the Adult Swim wannabe Slacker Cats.
- Quicherbichin. The more the merrier, and it's not like there's any fewer TV examples. Unlike these networks, this site has apparently kept the spirit and mission intact, just expanding it to include other media.
It's a joke.
Later:
- It's even gone beyond that, adding several articles on world history.
- And seriously, what is up with articles like Furry Fandom? Which brings us to Fandom Decay. Furry Fandom began as a rather straightforward fandom for cartoon animals. Though animals, especially cartoon, still obviously play a significant part, most furries even don't seem to have any real idea what the fandom is about, some even going so far to say that furry is the fandom of itself, whatever that means.
- And with that edit, this article is starting to decay.
- And now this example is decaying, too.
- If we say decay enough, will Decaytlejuice come out of nowhere or something?
- It's even gone beyond that, adding several articles on world history.
Decayed so much it fell off the tree.
Eric DVH: Since it was removed from the main page, putting it here for posterity:
- Wow, I mean just WOW. G4? Decay!? G4 ALWAYS SUCKED. Reviews, previews, news, con coverage, interviews, gaming sponsors only. The mags have been doing it on paper for decades, and sites like Pseudo and IGN with video for years. Look at Game Trailers now: All that stuff, a bit of appropriate fluff, no beer ads, less gratuitous “chicks,” no random TV shows, all run on a shoestring. It ain't hard people.
Rogue 7: Why do I feel like this page describes the entirety of the channels that I get? ——
- How about "Anime & Avatar: The Last Airbender Tropes"?
- But aren't those both aired on TV in the first place?
Conversation In The Main Page.
- One Discovery Channel spinoff decayed before it even hit the airwaves: When this editor first saw the ads hyping up Animal Planet, showing surreal scenes of suburban homes with gorillas and such as pets and an elephant on a green field as a logo, I thought for sure I knew what it meant. All nature documentaries, all the time. Finally! Instead, it turned out to be 99%
pet owneranimal companion caregiverCrazy Cat Lady programs when it actually premiered.
- One Discovery Channel spinoff decayed before it even hit the airwaves: When this editor first saw the ads hyping up Animal Planet, showing surreal scenes of suburban homes with gorillas and such as pets and an elephant on a green field as a logo, I thought for sure I knew what it meant. All nature documentaries, all the time. Finally! Instead, it turned out to be 99%
Oh come on. There's plenty of nature documentaries on there, and just because you assumed it'd be something it wasn't doesn't mean it decayed.
triassicranger: someguy where did you get your Animax example from? In Malaysia (and the other countries that receive that feed) the only sign of Network Decay is the fact they show Afterworld and that's all. I have yet to see a single fashion or gameshow, and the complaints about censorship don't square up to things I've seen in Magikano. And are you telling me it's difficult to find shonen anime like Dragonball and The Law Of Ueki? As there's no Animax in America (which seems to be where most of the examples come from) which Animax is this? I am actually coming close to removing the example under the pretence of inaccurate information, so out with it!
StClair just wanted to say that in This Troper's opinion, the channel that still dares to call itself "Sci-Fi" is way past Starting to Slip. :/
Morgan Wick: Cut:
- There's disagreement on what the letters ESPN stood for originally, but the two main candidates don't really fit the network anymore, though there's still some connection: Entertainment and Sports Programming Network (obviously, they still show sports), and Eastern Seaboard Programming Network (they're headquartered in Connecticut and broadcast many events from the Eastern Seaboard).
Although, no mention of how OLN became Versus?
Inkblot: Thank you all for making me regret my choice to move to digital cable. It seems that all I have to look forward to are generic reality shows.
Kalle: Hey, I still check out the TV Guide Channel! ... It has a little clock that counts down to the exact second, so when the power goes out I can use it to reset my digital clocks when they all go out afterwards.
Also, I'm pretty sure FUSE still airs quite a bit of music-related programming...? I just wish they didn't precede it with infomercials until 11:00 AM. time=1230543520
Syckls: I have never facepalmed so often or so hard as I have while reading this article.
Kalle: rofl, back again. Apparently the bit with Eminem at the MTV Movie Awards was actually staged (meaning that the pissy act was just that — an act,) so I cut that part out. But still, eww Twilight.
Wait, aren't flechettes supposed to MAKE the arrow spin? I thought the historically inaccurate version was NON spinning arrows.
Is there any place for fictional examples of this happening? Airheads is the example that springs most readily to mind.
This page is getting way too clogged with Natter. The only bullet points in articles should be those pertaining to minor sister networks (like MTV2 or Boomerang), foreign versions (like MTV UK or the Brazilian Discovery Channel), or explanations and examples as to how a network might have decayed (as long as they aren't full of Natter. Other things should be incorporated into the body of the main article, unless they would make it way too long. Here's some specific things I removed (along with several metric tons of Natter and Conversation In The Main Page):
- MTV finally cemented just how far it's decayed, apparently having deliberately decided to rebrand themselves as targeted to ditzy teenage girls. During their recent Movie Awards, which are voted on by viewers from a set list of nominees, they gave just about everything to... Twilight. Iron Man and Slumdog Millionaire were completely shafted, WALL-E wasn't even nominated for anything, and The Dark Knight took home only a single award, for "Best Villain"... in this case almost certainly due to twisted tween sexual lust and dead actors being better. Plus, the only category Twilight lost in was Best Song — to the Hannah Montana movie. High School Musical 3 won the Best Actor award.
- At least we got to see Bruno put his crotch in Eminem's face, which kept it from being complete crap and moved it up to mediocre crap. Seeing something as bad as Twilight get so many awards makes me feel like Idiocracy is coming true.
- Um, the Movie Awards were chosen by internet voting. But the point kinda stands, "ditzy teenage girls" went en masse after these winners.
- MTV finally cemented just how far it's decayed, apparently having deliberately decided to rebrand themselves as targeted to ditzy teenage girls. During their recent Movie Awards, which are voted on by viewers from a set list of nominees, they gave just about everything to... Twilight. Iron Man and Slumdog Millionaire were completely shafted, WALL-E wasn't even nominated for anything, and The Dark Knight took home only a single award, for "Best Villain"... in this case almost certainly due to twisted tween sexual lust and dead actors being better. Plus, the only category Twilight lost in was Best Song — to the Hannah Montana movie. High School Musical 3 won the Best Actor award.
The fact that Twilight kicked everyone's ass at the MTV Movie Awards doesn't prove that MTV is decaying. The MTV Movie Awards (themselves an early sign of Network Decay, dating back to 1992) have always been decided by popular vote. Twilight's runaway victory has more to do with the lack of taste that ditzy teenage girls have in books and movies than with MTV marketing itself toward ditzy teenage girls.
- Today A&E should be called the CSI: Miami channel, airing re-runs of the show with frightening regularity, culminating with occasional weekly marathons of the show that last entire days. The worst part is, these 24-hour marathons consist of the same 3 or 4 episodes airing in a loop, all day long. The few times the channel isn't airing CSI Miami, it's airing one of the 6 following shows: The First 48, Crossing Jordan, American Justice, Dog The Bounty Hunter, Intervention or Cold Case Files.
- Hey! They recently added CSI: New York!
- Nah, false alarm, they only play the one CSI: New York episode that crosses over with CSI Miami.
- Today A&E should be called the CSI: Miami channel, airing re-runs of the show with frightening regularity, culminating with occasional weekly marathons of the show that last entire days. The worst part is, these 24-hour marathons consist of the same 3 or 4 episodes airing in a loop, all day long. The few times the channel isn't airing CSI Miami, it's airing one of the 6 following shows: The First 48, Crossing Jordan, American Justice, Dog The Bounty Hunter, Intervention or Cold Case Files.
The first bullet has been incorporated into the main A&E section, while the two sub-bullets were deleted, since they didn't contribute to the body of the article.
- And, for a dark, dark era, they showed old cartoons starring Mr. T and Chuck Norris. They're trying too hard to be "ironic"...
- This shouldn't surprise anyone who remembers the original incarnation of Space Ghost Coast To Coast.
- Don't forget that period in which they played reruns of {{Peewee's Playhouse}} which was a kid's show a trippy one at that though.
- Technically, Adult Swim is considered a separate network from Cartoon Network, so its decay (or lack thereof depending on who you ask, since the shows mentioned above aren't shown on AS anymore) is a different story.
- This troper feels obliged to note that at least one of Adult Swim's execs is at best a Jerkass. This person, for a while, would turn up at anime cons, claiming a table in artist's alleys, and selling mass-manufactured unlicensed goods, and not in an effort to see how many people (including potential advertisers) could be alienated all at once. Are we sure it's not merely 'trying to be ironic'? (Not that this troper cared; as the So Bad Its Horrible original programming took over — apparently 'Adult' in 'Adult Swim' is the same 'Adult' as in 'Adult Novelties' — this troper fled. The growing number percentage of ads that were just for their other shows and random unannounced schedule shuffles resulted in this troper quitting trying to watch the few things that weren't offensively bad.)
One big block of Natter. Most of the usable information (namely, Adult Swim futile attempts to be "ironic") has been moved into the main section.
Yoshi: Removed angry, pointless rant about show bumpers.
- Now, they're airing advertisements for their CN Real block that talk about how they're "more than just cartoons."
- And the recent... interludes. I'm not sure if they're still on, as I haven't seen one in a while, but they were the stupidest things I've ever seen. For example, one is a live-action guy spilling a drink on himself, with a narrator yelling drink fail. They're not just stupid, they're pointless. In the Golden Age and Silver Age (1992-1996 and 1996-2004 respectively), the promos featured the characters, thus promoting shows. Or, let's take 2008's Wedgies. Sure, they didn't promote actual shows, but they allowed various animators to get a chance to show their stuff. But now, we have DRINK FAIL. They have their own entry on the Big-Lipped Alligator Moment page, and for good reason. And while I'm complaining, why is Ed Edd N Eddy's Big Picture Show airing in Scandinavia and Southeast Asia before the States and Canada. You know, countries that speak English, that you aren't required to dub?! No offense to denziens of either region.
We get it, CN has abandoned animation. That point has already been made at least ten times in the preceding bullets.
Yoshi:
- And hey, guess what... Now they want to have a cooking show and a talk show. Big "NO!"!
- And hey, guess what... Now they want to have a cooking show and a talk show.
Cancelled.
- Animal Planet underwent its own decay, from nature shows about wild animals and general biology/taxonomy/evolution/anatomy information to dog contests and funny domestic animal video clips. And Animal Cops— Cops, with animals!
- On the other hand, arguably that's not decay at all. Animal-related programming is an extremely broad category (and Planet's Funniest Animals has been around for much of the channel's history, incidentally).
When you debunk it, erase it.
- This troper remembers a few years ago when he was 10 and realized that from the time the infomertials ended to 6:00PM, it was just cop shows completely unrelated to science.
We really need a Troper Tales for this article
- Mythbusters itself has started to slip; apparently having run out of urban legends that can be scientifically tested within the budgetary and ethical boundaries of a cable TV show, they've now resorted to testing scenes from popular movies and commercials, and even did an entire episode dedicated to Mac Gyver.
- Though, even in season 1, Mythbusters was testing common movie tropes or scenes (like Explosive Decompression), so this is more of a natural progression of their work (from testing popular tropes to testing popular scenes).
- Mythbusters itself has started to slip; apparently having run out of urban legends that can be scientifically tested within the budgetary and ethical boundaries of a cable TV show, they've now resorted to testing scenes from popular movies and commercials, and even did an entire episode dedicated to Mac Gyver.
This is NETWORK decay
- Pans Labyrinth was a Sunday afternoon movie. On a channel mostly aimed at people under twenty. Yeah...
Again, Troper Tales. At least put this under What Do You Mean, It's Not for Kids?.
- As far as i can tell, there is almost no "discovery" related stuff left besides mythbusters. when i am at my grammas housw (the only place i watch TV), i go to the tvguide app and look at discovery, and all that is there is deadliest catch. this is NOT a marathon, since it happens every time i go there.
Bad grammer, spelling, Troper Tale and irrelevant.
I really don't want to be "that guy" but seriously people, there's a fine line between informality and useless ranting.
Yoshi: One more thing, added a new folder on the grounds that Animal Planet and USA's aversions are less "heroic" and more "no duh"
Yoshi: Since Syfy still has no less than FIVE still strong and ongoing Sci-fi series, (and one bad one), I believe the network has earned it's way out of Total Abandonment for the time being, even with the name change.
- The problem with the Scifi Channel is summed up with the cancellation of Stargate SG-1. It was a critically acclaimed show that was popular to the point of being a household name, but was cancelled because most of its audience was middle-aged women, and the executives saw their network's theme as targeting young men. This is made truly ironic by the fact that Sci-Fi's moves away from Science Fiction are constantly justified by their need to target a broader and, particularly, more female audience.
Too wordy, and doesn't add much. Plus that's not the main reason SG-1 was cancelled, nor was it the main reason the name changed.
- Of course, the cartoons they do keep aren't generally very good, mostly thanks to the Animation Age Ghetto.
Chowder, The Marvelous Misadventures Of Flapjack, Star Wars The Clone Wars, Batman The Brave And The Bold,and The Secret Saturdays. All quality shows. If you don't like them that's fine, (I'm personally not a huge fan of Flapjack), but a critical eye can at least see the quality and care put into such shows. Besides most of the bad shows are Canadian imports. (The Canadians are trying to sabotage Cartoon Network!)
- Disney's the Jungle Book aired on Cartoon Network. Not only are they airing a live action movies these days, they are movies from the wrong network!
If they bought the writes they can air it. It's still a cartoon.
- In late 2009, Cartoon Network brought the Looney Tunes back as a regular series for the first time in nearly five years, causing many to believe that the network was beginning to recover...only to dump Bugs and the gang when the year 2010 arrived.
The word "marathon" implies a limited run.
