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atypicaloracle
topic
11:35:11 PM Apr 14th 2013
Is there a trope for "phrase that keeps occurring over and over which is not unexplained and therefore not Arc Words"? Because by the umpteenth variation on "The Light" uttered by basically every other villain, it was beginning to remind me of the Skrulls constantly saying "SO IT IS WRITTEN" in Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes! - and with nearly as much annoyance.
LBHills
02:48:43 PM May 6th 2014
Catch Phrase? As far as I know, Sick of Hearing It isn't a trope... yet.
Larkmarn
topic
09:01:26 PM Feb 23rd 2013
I think leaving the petition on the page is reasonable.

It's ultimately no different than Needs More Love but on a slightly larger scale, you know? And while it's, strictly speaking, biased, this site is about celebrating works and tropes, and supporting the work is entirely within that. This isn't some sterile database, and I feel that most of the tropers and staff would agree that it shouldn't be either.
Hippoboy
02:12:36 AM Feb 25th 2013
I've seen petitions added on pages before. It seems reasonable to have it on as a short term solution. If the petition goes no-where and the show stays cancelled its not really difficult to take it off.
Eagal
topic
08:21:01 AM Feb 2nd 2013
Looks like the page has gotten too long. The folders are broken. Gonna need to split it.
Larkmarn
topic
05:54:05 AM Jan 16th 2013
Pulled this before it got Edit-War-y (though everyone was being fair and polite, so kudos to us):

  • Forgot About His Powers: In "Cornered", Miss Martian is unwilling to use her psychic powers on Despero after the incident with Aqualad. Fair enough, but when Despero is literally seconds away from killing Superboy, and then Bumblebee, it doesn't occur to her use her telekinesis (already used in the fight) shape shifting, or (admittedly weaker) super strength to attack him. Sure it probably wouldn't have done much harm to him, but it at least would have delayed him.

I'm beginning to come around, except that I don't think superstength or shapeshifting would do much good, or attacking him telekinetically because seriously, Despero would've just shrugged it off. I'm thinking she could've tried to use her telekinesis to move them, which she doesn't think to do until immediately after, then Malcolm is distracting Despero. That said, she is going through a pretty serious Heroic BSOD at the moment. She's obviously not exactly in sighting shape one way or the other.

Rognik
07:35:25 PM Jan 16th 2013
She used her telekinesis near the start of the fight, which he took pretty easily. I have no idea what shapeshifting could have done in the fight, as it wouldn't have increased her actual attack strength. As for her super strength, I bet that she's weaker than Captain Marvel or Superboy, so she didn't need to try before realizing that she wouldn't win that way. I'd say they pretty much covered her powers gambit, and only her psychic powers could have done anything different.
MasterGhandalf
08:43:18 PM Jan 17th 2013
Just for reference, Word of God has confirmed that Martians are stronger than humans, but weaker than Kryptonians; Despero was definitely packing enough raw strength and toughness that M'gann's super strength wouldn't have been much good against him.
timeaesnyx
topic
08:11:42 AM Oct 17th 2012
I'm curious where to put this. Apparently, Hollywood Genius isn't appropriate, since it got deleted. Robin's back formations of whelm shouldn't happen. As a computer genius, why can't he do a simple websearch to find the definiton of whelm? whelm verb \ˈhwelm, ˈwelm Definition of WHELM transitive verb 1
to turn (as a dish or vessel) upside down usually to cover something
cover or engulf completely with usually disastrous effect
2
to overcome in thought or feeling
overwhelm <whelmed with a rush of joy G. A. Wagner>
intransitive verb : to pass or go over something so as to bury or submerge it The definition above is from the Merriam-Webster website and demonstrates that his use of whelm to mean calm and collected in a crisis is inaccurate. I also want to start a new trope along the lines of most writers are not teachers. Batman is robins teacher, but in season 1 episode 1 Batman ignore the fact that Robin is wondering why no one is ever just whelmed and instead of using this as an opportunity to reinforce Robin's training as a detective who should seek out evidence, Batman ignores it. possibly justified since Batman would be unlikely to consider teaching a crime fighting technique.
Eagal
04:12:59 PM Oct 20th 2012
edited by Eagal
As noted, when the question first arose they were in the middle of a mission. He's not going to take five minutes out of the mission to look it up. After that it just became a recurring joke with him. Real definitions, grammar and/or syntax not required.

I can personally attest that this is Truth in Television. My family has a running joke with the "word" strategetize.
Nithael
07:16:01 AM Oct 21st 2012
Robin can hack into the Justice League's systems. I'm pretty sure he doesn't need Batman to teach him how to google something. I think you're reading too much into what was just a joke.
timeaesnyx
06:41:42 AM Nov 2nd 2012
Thank you. Rule of Funny does make a lot of sense, and yes I do read into jokes, which is probably why I'm fickle when it comes to comedy.
wildste
topic
12:36:39 PM Oct 7th 2012
I stated this in history, but I think it is something we need to discuss. The page is getting ridiculously long now, so I think it is time we start doing separate pages for letter sections (i.e. a page for A-E, a page for F-J and so on). We do this for other pages such as internet reviewers. So considering that we are not even half way through season 2, the page is only going to get longer and you know it will get more annoying to add tropes.

I would do it myself, but a.) I think we should discuss something as big a change as this and b.) I have no idea how to do it
JBK405
12:53:44 PM Oct 7th 2012
I believe there is an official Wiki policy on page lengths, and pages over a certain length are to be split into sections. However, I'm not sure what those requirements are, does anybody remember the actual length where the split should happen?
captainmarkle
topic
12:16:40 PM Oct 2nd 2012
Can we restore the Nightmare Fuel page?
JBK405
01:27:50 PM Oct 2nd 2012
Did something happen to it?
Gatordragon24
02:18:33 PM Oct 5th 2012
Yes it appears to have been deleted some time ago. I don't know who did it, but I personally didn't mind since there was quite a flame war regarding the Joker's appearance in "Revelation". If the Nighmare Fuel page is restored, may we please remove the Natter about the Joker? The page is about what people found scary, not a place for arguing over a character.
Gatordragon24
topic
12:54:07 PM Sep 3rd 2012
edited by Gatordragon24
Does anyone else think that the main page is getting too long? Perhaps we should divide the examples into folders.

Edit: It appears that someone divided the examples into folders. Thank you whoever did that. Much appreciated.
Eagal
topic
12:47:29 AM Jul 19th 2012
The Mythology Gag thing is getting pretty long. Should we make a page for it or somethin?
newtroper
topic
10:09:45 AM Jun 25th 2012
What was that snapping sound when Aqualad fakes Aretmis' stabbing? I assume thats what stopped her heart beat?
Gatordragon24
12:50:52 PM Sep 3rd 2012
That snapping sound was the sound of Artemis biting down on a pill. That pill is what stopped her heartbeat. Look closely when they recap how they faked Artemis's death and it can be seen in her mouth right before she bites down.
newtroper
topic
09:52:36 AM Jun 25th 2012
question, what was that snapping sound when aqualad faked artemis' death, i assume thats what stopped her heart beat
ashlay
09:56:09 AM Jun 25th 2012
coma drug in her mouth. just bite down to activate.
ASTK928
topic
08:33:30 AM Jun 6th 2012
What happened to the "Getting Crap Past the Radar" section on this page?
JBK405
09:09:57 AM Jun 6th 2012
I deleted it; like Heartwarming, Awesome, Funny, Tearjerker, Nightmare Fuel, etc. it has its own sub-page where we're supposed to list examples.
ASTK928
09:13:54 AM Jun 6th 2012
That's what I thought, but it's not there yet
JBK405
09:58:09 AM Jun 6th 2012
It is now.
ASTK928
10:24:33 AM Jun 6th 2012
Goodnight Everybody!! :D
Rognik
topic
10:09:07 PM May 27th 2012
With Wally and Artemis having a cameo in episode 4, and clearly retired from the hero business, can we now declare them Put on a Bus? They aren't coming back immediately.
joepro9950
01:53:42 PM May 29th 2012
I still say it's too early to say. If they don't show up again for most of the season, they yes, it's Put on a Bus. However, if they continue to show up in their civilian identities (or rejoin the team soon), then they were never really gone. I'm not sure WHEN exactly we'll be able to say that they're Put on a Bus, but as it stands now, they were gone for 3 episodes and have now been absent for 1 episode.
joepro9950
topic
08:05:47 AM May 26th 2012
In the episode "Beneth" we get a map of Bialya... Which clearly shows that they succeeded at some point durring the Time Skip in taking over Qurac. Does this qualify as any trope?
ashlay
08:16:31 PM May 27th 2012
edited by ashlay
Depends on where Beast Boy's story goes. It's either a Continuity Nod or a Chekhov's Gun. Guess you could put it in Continuity Nod for the time being.
joepro9950
topic
09:56:21 AM May 19th 2012
I'm having trouble with the Biological Mashup entry. While it's true that they are 4 characters fused together, these characters are not biological. They were just elemental bodies formed by invading energy aliens. I'm not sure where the line is drawn on Biological Mashup, and I don't know another trope to replace it with, so I just want to put this out there for someone who knows more about this trope to decide on.
JBK405
10:52:11 AM Jun 6th 2012
I believe it does fit; they might not be strictly biological (Although the wood one is), but they're 'living' beings stuck together.
Bushranger
topic
11:53:55 AM May 15th 2012
Should the appearance of Static and Gear in "Alienated" be mentioned under Shout Outs, or is it not really a shoutout on account of (a) they're DC characters and (b) it's very lilely to prove an Early-Bird Cameo?
JBK405
12:24:43 PM May 15th 2012
I didn't notice them in that episode, where did they appear?
ashlay
03:25:20 PM May 23rd 2012
hmm...school kid with the dreads and the other with blond hair and a beanie during the Hall of Justice tour sequence?

This all started because one of the staff said in a interview Virgil would be showing up somewhere in season 2. Though hey, given how La'gann first showed up in the background in "Downtime", I wouldn't put it past them.

Early-Bird Cameo is for when they appear in a separate related work. (the comic, the main DC universe, a movie, etc) If they did become regulars, it would be Ascended Extra or Chekhov's Gunman, depending on their role in season 2's plot.
joepro9950
topic
08:07:54 AM May 5th 2012
For Aliens Speaking English, I really don't think we should list examples. It's become clear (I am writing this as of Earthlings) that this trope is just averted with all aliens, unless they use a universal translator. There are too many alien languages that are not English to list them all, and none of the examples are particularly noteworthy.
ashlay
09:05:44 AM May 10th 2012
edited by ashlay
majority of examples seem to be playing with trope in different ways:

-M'gann learned english (justified)

-Lobo doesn't speak english (subverted) till he uses a translator (double subverted)

-Kroloteans don't speak english at all, despite their spy robots (inverted)

-Rannians can't translate at all, Strange has to play charades for weeks to open communication (Played For Laughs)

-Strange quoting Lewis Carroll is nonsense even with translator activated (zig zagged)

and so on
JBK405
09:20:06 AM May 10th 2012
Those Subversions are actually Aversions, but your point stands
newtroper
topic
07:44:00 AM Apr 29th 2012
Is there a trope for when Red Arrow says "Born that way." I just find it darker in hindsight in episode 1 he says He's born that way when in fact he really is and even says it during his real induction saying he was born that way plus 6 months.
ashlay
01:49:20 PM Apr 29th 2012
edited by ashlay
"Funny Aneurysm" Moment. make sure to put it on the YMMV tab though.
jayhankedlyon
07:29:52 PM Apr 29th 2012
I'd definitely say Harsherin Hindsight rather than "Funny Aneurysm" Moment, given it wasn't really a joke to begin with. Nothing funny became unfunny.
ashlay
06:26:30 AM Apr 30th 2012
edited by ashlay
It includes offhand comments too, and I'd say this one pretty closely matches the trope namer (Buffy season 4), where it's just an offhanded not particularly funny moment that becomes extremely depressing later on.

Harsher in hindsight is for instances were the comment or event is already negative, but only becomes more negative later.
Magestad
topic
01:47:02 AM Apr 29th 2012
What if there were separate trope folders for seasons 1 and 2?
ashlay
05:13:15 AM Apr 29th 2012
no, there's way too many overlapping tropes. just split them up into alphabetical folders if you're finding issues with page navigation.
jayhankedlyon
09:54:02 AM Apr 29th 2012
I utterly agree with Magestad. Not only for the sake of organization but for the sake of not having every single thing from Season 2 be in spoilers given how vastly different it is.

Moreover there isn't that much overlap at all, and for when there's overlap we can have the whole third folder "tropes found in both" going on. Sort of a no-brainer.
ashlay
01:47:26 PM Apr 29th 2012
edited by ashlay
a "tropes found in both" folder is a definite no-no if you're worried about all the season 2 tropes having spoiler tags.

I mean if you really want to try it. I'm just worried that there's going to be an extreme amount of trope overlap that will either leave a season 2 folder completely empty, or artificially inflate the character length of the page as a whole.
jayhankedlyon
03:06:42 PM Apr 29th 2012
edited by jayhankedlyon
Eh, I just think that this is gonna be comparable to Digimon between seasons 1 and 2 (each have their own entire page), in that they take place in the same universe but after a major time jump, focusing on a greatly expanded cast of characters and an arc that, while related to the previous season's, is largely independent.

Sure, there's trope overlap, but we're essentially talking about two different shows in the same universe by now. Looking at the summaries of upcoming episodes it's pretty clear we aren't turning back.
JBK405
05:31:44 PM Apr 29th 2012
If we reach that point then there actually should be two separate pages (Young Justice and Young Justice: Invasion), since trying to have different sections for each season will just end up being overly convoluted and confusing, with a lot of duplications.

I, personally, do not believe we're at that point just yet, but if we do then it should be a full split.
joepro9950
09:25:52 AM May 5th 2012
I'd like to point out that the series with a very similar time skip/renaming, Justice League Unlimited, does not have any such separation of the first and second seasons. Just something to consider.
JBK405
topic
05:35:29 PM Apr 28th 2012
edited by JBK405
I'm not sure what spoiler-type trope to put the Time Skip under; I took it out of First Episode Spoiler since it's not the first episode (Or first arc) and thusly is not a part of premise of the entire show, but it should be mentioned somewhere as an after-intro event that is nonetheless essential to understanding the entire show. I'm considering 7th Episode Twist, since that one's about a change that comes once you've aleady established the premise, but we're a bit past seven episodes (The number seven might be somewhat arbitray, but it is supposed to be in the middle of an arc, not the beginning of a brand new one).

Thoughts?
ashlay
06:19:24 PM Apr 28th 2012
edited by ashlay
I still don't really understand what the spoiler is. I mean yes, spoilers: there's a Time Skip, but what else exactly about that plot development is spoiling people? Because otherwise it's just a Time Skip.

And a 7th Episode Twist between two distinct seasons is just a plain old Re Tool.
JBK405
06:28:52 PM Apr 28th 2012
edited by JBK405
That is the spoiler. It's something that is a spoiler for anybody new to the show, but is such an inherent part of the show from season two and on that it can't be hidden because then you simply couldn't discuss season two at all. Situations like that are not hidden under spoiler tags, but they are marked as First Episode Spoiler, Late-Arrival Spoiler, etc.

Re Tool is already on the page covering the shift.
ashlay
06:52:09 PM Apr 28th 2012
Well, then guess it's a First Episode Spoiler for Season 2? anyone trying to explain season 2 will instantly spoil the fact there's a Time Skip, so as long as it's specified that it's for Season 2, is probably fine.

It would only be a Late-Arrival Spoiler if the timeskip was in season 1 and then season 2 spoiled that, or if in the future season 3 spoils the time skip here.
JBK405
topic
07:36:12 PM Apr 24th 2012
edited by JBK405
I don't believe that the Fate/Zatarra blending would count as a Composite Character, but on second thought it's not as clear as I originally thought.

The trope is intended for initial adaptations, it's a production/writing trope for character generation, not to cover character actions within a work. From that perspective, two characters merging into one would be a distinct trope.

Infinity Man, for example, is not a composite character even though five people joined together, because the characters are still distinct, they're just notall present anymore.

Dr. Fate isn't Zatanna's father, and he doesn't have a history as a stage musician, he's just inhabiting the body of somebody who was.

Thoughts?
ashlay
07:57:41 PM Apr 24th 2012
edited by ashlay
Well, doesn't that just make it justified? Or even deconstructed? It's still an adaptation where two magic users that used to be distinct have been merged into one character. Now if Zatara had ever been Fate in the main dc continuity, that would be different. But Fate's pretty much just Kent and Hall (with a few others in there)

Anyway, as to the Robin point: They've always featured his hacking heavily in this series, which was always Tim Drake's bag, not Dick's. I mean the computer thing was there when they announced Drake, he hacked Ra's entire network once, it was always a defining trait of Robin III, and not Robin I. And when it was just that, I didn't think that necessarily meant Composite Character, even with the fact Drake had been the one in the old Young Justice.

But now that he's wearing one of Drake's costumes? I think it's pretty clear they've been actively borrowing from Drake the whole time.
JBK405
08:18:28 PM Apr 24th 2012
edited by JBK405
I'll withdraw the contestation given the hacking on Robin, but Fate/Zatarra still doesn't pass mustard.

The point is that, right now, they're not one character. There's Dr. Fate and there's Zatarra. Fate is a Lord of Order, Zatarra is a stage magician and father. They're not one character with elements of both, Fate just happens to be using Zatarra's body. If, for example, Zatarra had always been Dr. Fate or had some sort of history with helmet it'd be a composite, adding elements of the Fate character to Zatarra, but as it is they're still two distinct characters.
JBK405
09:19:34 PM Apr 24th 2012
Legacy Character is the trope you want, where one character takes over duties, responsibilities and the costume/title of another, but they're still two distinct characters.
ashlay
06:13:30 AM Apr 25th 2012
edited by ashlay
I agree Zatara/Fate is legacy, but that's an inter-continuity trope, not an adaptation one.

Let me try to reword: John Zatara in YJ is a combo of John Zatara and Hector Hall from the comics, as this Zatara takes the elements of Hall's relation to the Fate identity. Does this seem a more acceptable description to you?
JBK405
07:54:55 AM Apr 25th 2012
Not really, no, since what part of Hector Hall's identity does John Zatara have? Similar family members? A similar history? Similar training? Similar personality?

The trope is more than just "A similar thing happened to both characters," and once you get past "Unwilling host of Dr. Fate" there's no connection at all.
Neuman
01:40:28 PM Apr 25th 2012
New screenshots include Nightwing, so the the Robin with Tim Drake's costume might just be Tim Drake. So I removed Robin from the Composite Character examples until Saturday.
ashlay
02:42:23 PM Apr 25th 2012
edited by ashlay
Did not see that coming. welp, entirely moot then.
loracarol
topic
01:37:19 PM Apr 23rd 2012
edited by loracarol
Moved

  • Six Justice League members go missing for 16 hours in "Auld Acquaintance", setting up plot points for the second season, Invasion. These six are the founding League members in the DCAU, only missing the Flash - who is Barry Allen, not an adult Wally West.
    • Making the analogy closer to the DCAU Justice Lords.

back to the Shout-Out bullet instead of Mythology Gag as a Mythology Gag would only be applicable if Young Justice took place in the DCAU, or was made by any of the same people in the same universe. Yes, Young Justice and the DCAU both use DC characters, but that doesn't make them take place in the same universe.

Shout-Out, however, "is something subtle (a name, line of dialogue, or prop) in a show that refers to fans or family members of the cast or crew, or to another source of inspiration." (Emphasis mine)

the DCAU and YJ are only connected through their "parent" company (DC), and not through a similarity in anything else, therefore I believe that it's most definitely a Shout-Out, and no0t a Mythology Gag.

If it was only two people, then that wouldn't be a specific Shout-Out, no. But the fact that their were six people who were gone, and they happen to be 6 of the original 7 in the JLU is pretty telling. Especially since it could have been Hawkman instead of Hawkgirl and Hal Jordan instead of John Stewart that went missing, but instead of those, we had Hawkgirl and John Stewart for no discernible reason. The fact that it's six of the seven original members, and that
ashlay
04:08:19 PM Apr 23rd 2012
edited by ashlay
Well, as taken from the page, Mythology Gags are "Often seen in Revivals, Reboots or Series Franchises, when an element from the previous version of the show (or from the previous show in the Series Franchise) is referenced or seen in some way"

So Young Justice, as another Continuity Reboot of the DC universe, should really be in the Myth Gag column. Basically: Mythology Gags are for all DC related references, Shout Outs for all non DC references.

And I reworked it to just say it's a reference to the Justice Lords, since that's more in keeping with JBK 405's concern that it wasn't an exact match before.
loracarol
04:15:15 PM Apr 23rd 2012
But a continuity reboot only takes place in the "same franchise". The DCAU was it's own franchise, with Batman, Superman, Static Shock, The Justice League, JLU, etc. Young Justice isn't part of the DCAU franchise, it's a part of the DC franchise, but the DC franchise is so large that I really doubt everything example of an inter-DC shout out is, in fact, a mythology gag. Now, if they built off of Young Justice, and made spin-off shows in the same universe, I'd call those mythology gags, but when they are from two different shows... I just can't see it. :/
ashlay
04:29:14 PM Apr 23rd 2012
edited by ashlay
I think you're confusing Mythology Gag with Continuity Nod. Continuity Nod is the one where one work in a Series Franchise makes a shout out to another work in the franchise.

And I don't understand, why do think the size of the DC universe makes the references not Mythology Gags? We've got an entire page there of Myth Gags Sherlock has to the extensive collection of original Doyle stories.
JBK405
05:55:04 PM Apr 23rd 2012
edited by JBK405
This conversation is (largely) irrelevent since I maintain it's not a Mythology Gag, Shout-Out or Continuity Nod at all, due to the lack of any kind of reference, action, pose, dialogue, or meta-commentary. All we have are a group of six characters that were on the team in another show. It doesn't match the line-up of Justice League exactly, and there has been no kind of reference made at all (Nobody says "Do you wonder what it would be like if we were the whole Justice League?" or "I always imagined we'd meet when we united to fight off an alien invasion" or anything of the sort). We don't even know what they've done while missing.

The simple fact that they chose Hawkgirl and John Stewart instead of Hawkman or Hal Jordan doesn't mean anything, since they exist in the show and have already been used for their own events (And they're in the comcis, too).

There is no indication of any sort that the writers meant for this to refer to the DCAU series, and a Mythology Gag (And Shout-Out) has to be intentional. Unless it's a direct reference in the show we need an official commentary, and without that it's just a coincidence.
ashlay
06:10:17 PM Apr 23rd 2012
edited by loracarol
The fact they picked John and Hawkgirl certainly means something. And unless you can give a reason why the selection of those six made sense in-universe, there's certainly something meta about it. You may not like it, but we're all going to have to come to some sort of middle ground here, because otherwise the entire page is sooner or later going to end up being locked.

Either way, come to a compromise. No more taking things in and out 10 more times.
JBK405
06:30:50 PM Apr 23rd 2012
Not to be an ass (Although, admitedly, I'm aware it's coming across as ass-ish), compromise is not the answer. Something either fits the trope or it doesn't, and considering we don't know what they did while on their mission we have no reason to assume it doesn't make sense for it to be Hawkgirl or John. Tropes are listed based on what happens in the series and what is confirmed based on Word of God; as it is all we have right now is a coincidence unless there is some kind of reference within the show, or some kind of confirmation outside of the show. There's only so many characters on the show (Twenty league members total), eventually every combination of characters is going to come up, and they will all be coincidence unless we have some kind of indication that it was deliberate.

That's not me being stubborn, that's Wiki policy to keep the Shout-Out, Expy, Captain Ersatz and other such pages from overflwing with "This is clearly a reference to XXXXX!" that can mean a hundred different things based on viewer interpretation.
ashlay
06:39:21 PM Apr 23rd 2012
edited by ashlay
Oh, the 6 members attacked some alien species that look like green versions of the genomorphs. It's in the commercial for next week's episode, see 0:06 - 0:08.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOGOjhFBu4M

And even assuming just 20 members and we just choose 6 of them, there's well over 30,000 possibilities. Not every combo is going to pop up without some sort of reason.

loracarol
06:40:16 PM Apr 23rd 2012
Okay, I think I have a compromise, actually. There is an Ask Greg question here asking

Were the six Leaguers in "Auld Acquaintance" who were unaccounted for(Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Hawkwoman and John Stewart) a reference to the Justice League cartoon, since the show featured an near identical line-up, or was it just a coincidence?

If Word of God is that it's not a coincidence, then we can discuss if it's a mythology gag or a shout out at that point in time.

Does that sound agreeable to everyone?
JBK405
06:48:50 PM Apr 23rd 2012
edited by JBK405
Absolutely; if Greg says it's not a coincidence then it's a Mythology Gag (Or Shout-Out, or Continuity Nod, or.....) no question.

My objection is not, and has not been, "I disagree," it's "Whether I agree or not is immaterial, there's not enough support in the show." Once there is support I go away.
ashlay
06:49:02 PM Apr 23rd 2012
I'm honestly fine with just about anything so long as the edit war stops.
GoldStarz
06:23:55 AM May 5th 2012
Not burst anyone's bubble, but the front page clearly states we don't need citations. Not only that, but it will take MONTHS just for him to answer that one question. I suggest we just put it in as a Shout Out, mainly because the DCAU is not Earth-16.
ashlay
11:17:43 AM May 11th 2012
edited by ashlay
As long as it doesn't turn into an edit war, feel free to argue and judicate your side through the normal channels. This was mainly about stopping it from being added and removed over and over.

And again, Mythology Gag is where any DC related refrences go, Continuity Nod where any previous episode related refrences go, and Shout-Out where any refrences that don't fit into those catagories go. We should really put together a ven diagram or something for these...
JBK405
12:40:40 PM May 11th 2012
It's very true that citations are not required, we are not Wikipedia and sourcing is not a big part of our style. However, despite our informality, the idea is that a Shout-Out or Mythology Gag or Continuity Nod (Or any other related trope) needs to be deliberate and intentional; a coincidence is just a coincidence, even if it coincidentally matches another work and could be a Shout-Out (Or Mythology Gag or Continuity Nod or....).

My point, which I still stick to, is that without some kind of dialogue, or pose or event or anything like that, simply having a lineup which almost matches the lineup of a different show shouldn't count. We have no indication that this is a deliberate reference, since they didn't even match it exactly. I hate the 'Slippery Slope' argument (I really do, if it's often logically flawed and relies on a hypothetical result that might never come to pass at all), but if this counts as a Mythology Gag, then why doesn't every scene where Batman & Superman are together count as a Mythology Gag to World's Finest (Either the comic series or the episode of Superman: The Animated Series)? Why doesn't having Tim Drake as Robin count as a Gag to The New Batman Adventures?

It's just so vague, a character lineup that almost (But doesn't) match the line-up of a different show.
GoldStarz
11:03:49 AM May 12th 2012
But it fits perfectly with the Justice LORDS from the Justice League, who's existence caused the JL a lot of trouble during the first two seasons of Unlimited.
ashlay
12:52:52 PM May 12th 2012
edited by ashlay
Yeah, the Justice Lords (a group of 6 justice league members who went evil and did terrible things in DCAU JL) are those exact 6 members who disappeared for 16 hours and wrecked up that alien world. The Justice Lords are unique to that DCAU universe, there are no other iterations of that group, so the slippery slope examples aren't great comparisons. This is far more specific.

And again, we know from the makeup for the symbols on the Justice League's ID cards, Nightwing's logo design, the staff being people who worked on the old show, etc. that these creators are aware of the DCAU and reference it.

Another possible example: if we have an episode in the near future where the 4 members who made up the original Young Justice team in the comics go on a mission with just them (since we're only missing 1 now), would we consider that a Mythology Gag?
JBK405
01:08:25 PM May 12th 2012
edited by JBK405
If they were gathered together specifically for that episode then yes (Or faced an enemy of the original team, or replicated some move of the original team, or....), but if all of them are on the Team and just happen to spend that episode working together then no, that wouldn't be a Mythology Gag unless there was some indication that it happened on purpose. As I've been saying, that's the difference between a Mythology Gag and a coincidence: Intention.

Now, with today's episode and the revelaion that the six members were used to ferment mistrust and hatred of the League then I might be willing to just back down from this issue, because now there is more than just "Six characters who were important in another series," but that's because we've gotten an expansion on what occured. It now is matching the old series in a way that's more than just purely coincidental, since we're getting similar themes and story progression.

New information changes perspective.
ashlay
01:10:22 PM May 12th 2012
edited by ashlay
people were inferring from the commercials for season 2 at the time that those 6 members had been doing bad things. Think that's why it was added so soon after auld acquaintance aired.
JBK405
01:12:01 PM May 12th 2012
edited by JBK405
Inferences can be wrong, and even implications can be misleading (We even have a trope for that). Informal or not, until we actually know what's going on we shouldn't be putting our own personal theories onto the main pages, especially not tropes like Mythology Gag, since that one is based around specific context and intention, not just solely what occurs on-screen.
ashlay
07:23:07 PM Sep 29th 2012
And now we know. Thank you again to loracarol for the solution.
EricW
topic
04:43:44 AM Apr 16th 2012
What's the term for an Arc location. The team's first mission was to Santa Prisca, where they first started formally unraveling the mystery of the light. In Usual Suspects, they go back there, and finally get free of their Dark Secrets, and defeat their most recurring foe: Sportsmaster. Is there a trope for that?
JBK405
07:53:59 AM Apr 22nd 2012
edited by JBK405
The closest is Where It All Began, but I don't believe that applies, since Santa Prisca isn't where it began (That'd be Cadmus, where they first decided to defy the League, or maybe Happy Harbor, where they first became an official team). I'm not sure if there's a trope for "Goes back to a plot relevant location." Try Lost and Found.
LavanyaSix
topic
10:59:48 AM Mar 25th 2012
edited by LavanyaSix
I don't believe Artemis's entry under "But Not Too Black" is accurate. Speaking from personal experience — which admittedly isn't a source I can professionally cite — I have a cousin who's ethnically half-Czech, half-Japanese, and he's naturally blond despite his parents not being biracial.

I realize from several nods here in the wiki entry that apparently this is some sort of hugely controversial issue within the fandom, but, from first-hand experience, I can tell you that it's not impossible for someone with Artemis's background to have blonde hair.
xPixelxDustx
01:43:17 PM Mar 25th 2012
Someone put that back on her entry? Take it off. It doesn't apply to her at all.
darkclaw
topic
06:12:02 AM Mar 21st 2012
I'm guilty of adding spoilers that didn't air in the US yet; but fortunately my spoilers have been removed. To ensure tropers don't add spoilers that could ruin the enjoyment of the show for those watching week by week in the US; could we add some kind of note on the main page, character page, etc. to say not to add spoilers for episodes that haven't aired in the US yet?
Wolfpaw13
topic
04:52:28 PM Mar 4th 2012
My edit was reversed why?
JBK405
topic
07:24:01 AM Feb 13th 2012
I'm not understanding the note on re-using a characters voice for the computer, how was it re-used so as not to be just them re-casting the actress? Is it that she recorded dialogue for a character that was subsequently cut, and they just inserted that dialogue into the show as the computer voice?
JBK405
03:27:22 PM Apr 22nd 2012
edited by JBK405
Nobody's responded to this or helped explain the note as it is listed in Development Gag, so I'm tempted to just cut it out. Can somebody explain what it means that they re-used the voice?
joepro9950
topic
04:41:41 PM Nov 19th 2011
I don't think that "Guys Smash, Girls Shoot" applies here. Artemis in particular uses hand to hand combat alot, and Miss Matian does sometimes too. Not to mention all the non-main-character women who fight like that and men who don't.
Puppyscruffy
09:54:19 AM Feb 10th 2012
^^Agreed. Let's not forget too that Robin is just as likely to throw a batarang as he is to throw a punch.
atypicaloracle
11:36:51 PM Apr 14th 2013
And you're far more likely to see Black Canary throw a hero on his backside - including Superboy - than you are to see her use her superpower. In fact, the first time you see her superpower in action... it's Amazo using it.
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