Series Once Upona Time Discussion

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08:02:09 PM Apr 30th 2015
I am curious about how the letters for the subpages were chosen. Was it a forum discussion? did someone roll 2 dice, many, many times?

Just curious, not trying to criticize it.
10:14:53 PM Apr 30th 2015
What "letters"? It's a bit vague for a question.
05:20:14 AM May 1st 2015
I think he means like "Tropes A-D" etc.
07:04:02 AM May 1st 2015
Randomly, basically. Trope lists are folderized when they become too long, and usually one uses letters in a way they see fit.
01:26:21 PM May 1st 2015
So, there's no consistency from series to series? what happens when one subpage is too big and another is too small? create new pages with new letters, and delete the old pages with old letters?
02:25:01 AM May 2nd 2015
Yes, but that doesn't happen too frequently.
09:33:13 AM May 3rd 2015
Ah, ok. Thank you for the explaination.
08:10:52 PM Nov 18th 2013
Damn...I don't know how it happened but somehow something I did when editing the page caused all the folders to not work. Could someone figure it out and fix it? Thanks!
12:32:05 AM Nov 19th 2013
You didn't do anything wrong, it's just that folders can only hold so much text and these have been pushed over the limit. To fix it, break the page up into several subpages.
02:26:23 AM Aug 6th 2013
edited by
Is Once Upon a Time stuck in a Superhero Paradox? True, the presence of mean kings long before the rise of snow white and prince charming is counter to this idea, but think about what happened in season 2. Breaking the Curse opened the floodgates for 5 new villains to terrorize storybrooke. True, 2 of those would never have come along if not for one lousy Wraith removal spell, the point still stands that there's been a serious Serial Escalation going on in this show, and the acts done by the leads end up bringing even more baddies to storybrooke.

Does that count as a Superhero Paradox?
01:18:48 PM May 17th 2013
Are my wife & I the only ones who watch this show and feel Snow White is a Scrappy? Pure annoyance at her very presence and would cheer loudly if they got rid of her (but, obviously, they won't).
06:22:32 PM Aug 25th 2013
Put that under YMMV if you feel that way.
07:46:52 AM May 3rd 2013
Could we create a Wall Banger or a Dethroning Moment of Suck page? After some season 2 episodes , I feel urge to whine.
08:09:11 AM May 3rd 2013
DethroningMoment.Live Action TV already exists — you can go there.
09:22:04 AM Mar 5th 2013
edited by MithrandirOlorin
I was really hopeing the latest episode would Avert MacGuffin Delivery Service but to no avail.
07:01:30 PM Feb 17th 2013
An inconsistency that I noticed all over the place is the spelling of Rumplestiltskin's name. In all of the pages, it seems to oscillate between Rumpelstiltskin (the spelling used in the original fairytale) and Rumplestiltskin (the spelling in-universe). In screenshots of the dagger, you can clearly see that it's "ple" not "pel":
05:01:53 PM Feb 13th 2013
This is a technical question. Would a stealth reference to Pinocchio be a shout out or a mythology gag? What I'm meaning to ask about is the subtle pun at the very beginning of the series, where Emma makes her wish. Her candle has a star on it. She made a wish on a star, and it came true.

Does that count as a gag or a shout out? I currently have it under shout out, but does it really count as that?
08:50:23 AM Feb 14th 2013
I personally think it's more of a Stealth Pun.
07:50:26 PM Mar 1st 2013
I'd agree that it's a shoutout. Emma herself is not a character in Pinocchio. In fact I'd call all the Disney refs shoutouts—they are technically another media.
10:49:52 PM Jan 19th 2013
Where does this show place the line between being an anti-villian (discussed on the main page) and being an anti-hero? Especially with Gold/Rumple beginning act heroically and the fact that fantastic racism of a sort would lead many of the show's characters to consider Hook's ends heroic, if not his means. Is Gold's character developing into a Type IV anti-hero? Is Hook a deconstruction of an anti-hero, in that characters in the show might see him as a type IV/V, in contrast to the audience seeing him as an anti-villain?
06:28:57 AM Feb 2nd 2013
I'm getting the impression the show doesn't really draw the line. Emma as the hero, no problem. But Gold, Hook, Regina - they are all unclear. Dark One/Rumpelstiltskin most of all, between janking his wife's heart out (and, even earlier, killing a maid in his house for what she _might_ have overheard) and doing stuff that makes him very likable to the viewers. Regina - definitely bad guy, but you can't help feeling sorry for her when she saves Henry and he marches of with new Mom and her band of friends.

I think that the way characters and plot are written doesn't aim at making it clear what the are, but at keeping up the suspense, both about what's going to happen and whether or not that Regina / Hook / Gold will turn out good or bad, villain or hero. Which works bloody great, because that way you never know which way they'll go. And I would not be surprised if even in the end, those three won't fit into clean slots. Or if audience reactions determine who gets a Disney Death and who joins the "Happily Ever After" party.

02:33:44 PM Dec 1st 2012
This is stupidly nitpicky but does anybody else watch the scenes with Rumplestiltzkin at his spinning wheel and wonder why the hell he seems to have no idea how to use the thing? I realize this is one of those things that most people are going to watch and not realize looks completely strange, but it bugs the heck out of me every time they show it. (Spinning wheels are pretty much always operated by a foot pedal, and the resultant yarn doesn't end up in a pile on the floor, it ends up on a spool on the machine)
02:44:43 AM Dec 2nd 2012
Hm. Having not watched the series, is this the kind of thing you mean? I'm a spinner myself, and yeah, that wouldn't work at all. Whilst some wheels, usually older ones, are hand-powered like that, the yarn doesn't wind onto the spool, he isn't drafting the fiber in his hand (see this image), and the driveband doesn't go around the circumference of the main wheel.
11:10:39 PM Jan 19th 2013
Well, how many average TV viewers are intimately familiar with how a spinning wheel works? It really only needs to look convincing enough to fool the average person.
08:21:39 AM Feb 1st 2013
Wooo boy (or girl/non-gender-person/hermaphrodite), you are so not alone. Every time I see him at that beautiful, gorgeous spinning wheel making no use whatsoever out of it I wince. That Beauty&theBeast episode where Belle asks him why he spins so much? I always have to bite my tongue to keep from snarking "Because I hope I'll figure it out one day". Which wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that Robert Carlyle is awesome enough to have learned to drive a bus for some other movie, so why not figure out a spinning wheel? Maybe the producers did some research later on, because they added a spindle (not needle!) that actually fits in with older model spinning wheels _and_ allows David to prick his finger. The pedal - that was actually a nice touch for me. The first spinning wheels where hand-driven and were around in medieval times, and with Rumplestiltskin's village and clothing being rather more medievalesque than anything else, that fits fine. I agree with Telcontar on the yarn and the driveband and the fact that Carlyle is simply feeding yarn through the wheel. I can get the "only fool the average viewer" thing, but still: it produces a lot of people that way who are unaware that their "knowledge" of a spinning wheel (medieval village, historic / exotic object, ...) is dead wrong. Not much of a problem on a single object, but bloody annoying when it concerns an entire period / culture.
03:14:58 PM Apr 19th 2013
Well I am not a spinner (but I have seen spinning at craft fairs and such)and consider myself an average viewer and what Rumpelstiltskin/Gold does with that wheel is in no way convincing. And I am surprised because Robert Carlyle the actor is known for being very attentive to those kinds of details.
01:57:28 PM Oct 24th 2012
edited by MoonLily
Questions about spoilers and details: At what point do we no longer consider something a spoiler? It was highly publicized that Mulan would be a character in Season 2, so do we need to hide just her name in tropes like Action Girl? I would consider that non-spoiler-tag-needing...

...but think that certain details about gambits and reveals should be left out/tagged, such as exactly how Mr. Gold Batman Gambits the elections. And on a similar vein, leaving out full-episode synopses that are extraneous detail to describing a trope.

I don't want to step on toes as I edit, but a lot of the page looks like conversation or spoiler town right now, so please speak up if I overstep my bounds.
12:34:58 AM Oct 15th 2012
Offhand, how hard would it be to get a recap page going?
01:55:49 PM Oct 29th 2012
Yes, I wish for recaps too. English is only my secondary language, so all I can provide is a trope or two sometimes but I love this show and come here after every episode to search for the new entries, which gets harder and harder.
05:56:48 AM Oct 2nd 2012
I wanted to clarify. The reason I'm deleting the All Men Are Rapists example is because an inversion of that trope would be if all female characters were rapists, which obviously isn't true of the series. Nor is it a subversion to have Regina as a rapists- the show just isn't using the All Men Are Rapists trope.
03:40:50 PM Aug 19th 2012
edited by player2start
Hello all. I'm not sure how to go about doing this myself, but there appears to be a lot of subpages related to the series Once Upon a Time linked to the page for the trope Once Upon a Time. Again, I'm not sure how to go about removing them, but would appreciate it if someone could do so, or instruct me how to do it. Thanks!
09:12:44 AM Aug 20th 2012
Go through all the wicks for this. Incidentally, I feel that this is a Stock Phrase.
10:15:23 PM May 2nd 2012
Note to Tropers: It is VERY rude to delete other Tropers' entries to Fridge and WMG - WMG is supposed to be the place where sanity goes out the window.

Should there be a subsection for "Jossed" and "Confirmed" guesses? I've seen it on other fandom pages, such as My Little Pony (Pinkie Pie has a WMG page to herself)
12:23:09 AM May 3rd 2012
Might not be a bad idea to have a subsection for resolved theories, if just to keep down the edit warring.
07:14:53 PM May 11th 2012
Yeah, I'll agree with that; it'd be simpler to have a resolved theory folder, instead of just deleting the "Jossed" or "Confirmed" was. Good idea.
07:54:17 PM Mar 1st 2013
No one ever got around to doing this? I agree it was a very good idea but I'm not 100% sure how to implement.
07:44:59 PM Apr 25th 2012
In the last episode aired, called "The Return", August pretends to be Bae. When Rumplestiltskin realizes he was lying, August says "Do i even look like him?" Do you guys think that that was a kind of Leaning on the Fourth Wall? Because there was a lot of theories about that in the fandom, so maybe that was the way of the writers say "Are you guys idiots?!"
06:55:23 AM May 2nd 2012
To be fair some of the fandom's guesses were really stupid ones that don't have any inlogic behind them, like August being Henry's father despite the fact that Emma acts like she never met him before in her life. Or August being Henry's future self despite the fact that they have different eye color and that the show never even so much as implied time-travelling possibilities. Rational people are obviously glad August turned out to be none of those things. It doesn't matter if the show looked like it was saying to the fandom that they were stupid, cuz the fandom did look like they were asking for it. And now that August has an official fairytale counterpart, future guesses of who August might be have been prevented from ever happening. Like how people quited doing "guess drawings" of Ariel's mom until the TLM 3 came along and gave Ariel's mom an official look and a name.

When something is made official, all future guesses and possibilities are neutralized.
10:17:21 PM May 2nd 2012
WMG is supposed to be where sanity takes a tea break. It is very rude to delete the guesses of other people. We may need a "Jossed" or "Confirmed" sub-page.
08:02:07 AM Mar 12th 2013
Though now that we know that Neal is Baelfire, the actor still looks absolutely nothing like the kid.
07:14:36 PM Apr 15th 2012
Just wondering but does anyone get the feel that there is more to the Queen's Start of Darkness? I mean it's still not revealed where she got her powers from and why her mother isn't in the castle with her after the wedding - I get a feeling that Snow is the one she is fixated on because she has already dealt with the other one involved - Cora.
07:25:30 PM Apr 15th 2012
I'll be amazed if it doesn't turn out that Regina is a Self-Made Orphan after dishing out some payback to Mom.
09:49:00 PM Apr 16th 2012
Thoroughly agree. Magical power also has been shown to pass via murder - heh - so who knows?

Hey how do I Pothole a Trope in discussion?
06:35:35 AM Apr 22nd 2012
Exactly the same way as anywhere else: [[InsertTropeHere pothole text to display]].
02:56:54 PM Mar 24th 2012
There is a disagreement over the following line: It was removed by a new troper for being a spam link, and put back because it was valid and relevant. It was removed a second time for being spam and for Abridged Series not being a proper trope. However, the first (non-quote) line on the Abridged Series page begins "A Sub-Trope of Gag Dub", showing that it is a real trope. The page type is set to "trope+index". Input and opinions are needed over whether to restore the line, since doing more at this point would be verging on an Edit War. Personally, I think the link is fine — essential, if the trope is there — and the trope is valid. If there is no feedback/action on this by the 31st (next Saturday), I will put the trope and link back.
05:10:23 PM Mar 24th 2012
Of course you think it's fine because it's your site. Nice attempt to discredit me by labeling me as "new". How do you know that? Anyway, what you failed to mention is that you were the one who re-added the link after I took it out.

Your Abridged Series is not an official part of the show and has no business being listed on the show's page with tropes that actually stem from the show itself. Stop trying to justify your spam. Your site is fandom plain and simple. If every fandom site out there invaded this site and tried to post links it would be chaotic.
01:04:54 AM Mar 25th 2012
I was trying to keep the discussion neutral by not mentioning your name either. I can tell that you are new because you have a bright red "new account" tag by all your edits on this list. Also, I can check how many edits you've made and what they are with this tool. Anyway.

I have never watched Once Upon a Time or the Abridged version of it. I have never visited that site except to check the link worked. The link was added by a different troper on the 21st of February (to check that, click "show all history" and then, using CTR+F, search for "abridgedseries". Find the earlieset occurance of the phrase. To check the edit history of that troper, replace "Llola" in the tool I showed above with their handle).

I agree with you that The Abridged Series is not an official part of the show. However, as I said above, it is a trope. We catalogue tropes, we list them on the work pages, and when it's relevant, we provide an external link to show something. For example, we list that an Abridged Series was made for Once Upon a Time and then link to where it can be found.
11:48:18 AM Mar 25th 2012
Stop lying. That is your website. I wish I had taken screenshots of you boasting about adding your site here on another website that just so happens to be a Once Upon a Time site. "I have never watched Once Upon A Time" oh, please, stop deluding yourself.

PS - New username doesn't mean "new".
12:55:32 PM Mar 25th 2012
So what if it is her website? The link fits.
12:26:43 AM Mar 26th 2012
I brought this up in Ask The Tropers, and was advised to put the link back but in the Trivia/ namespace. That namespace is for many of the things in a work which aren't tropes, so putting The Abridged Series in there should be fine with you because according to you, The Abridged Series isn't a trope. Things like Hey, It's That Voice! go in there too, and that's about things only linked to a work by having the same (voice-) actor. Since Fast Eddie himself said the link fits, nobody can complain about it being a spam one or whatever, or that it doesn't belong here.

Therefore, I will put the line in the Trivia tab tomorrow, to give you time to see this.
08:01:31 PM Mar 26th 2012
Eddie, I thought policy is that Abridged Series doesn't belong on a trope list for a work that's being abridged, it belongs in fan fic recs since it's not a part of the work itself.
11:35:03 PM Mar 26th 2012
edited by Telcontar
Surely it would count as Trivia to say that it exists, since it isn't part of the work or whatever, and Fanfic Recs if someone was actively saying it was good. I could be misunderstanding trivia, though. If it does belong in Fanfic Recs, I'll open up a thread somewhere to ask someone to reccommend it I can't, since I've never watched it.

Edit: Following this (slightly old) thread and I am listing the Abridged version on the Trivia tab; it's not on Fanfic Recs because I'm not reccommending it. Following the xkcd Trivia page, I'm giving the page headers for "listed trivia", of the type that's normally on there, and "miscellaneous trivia", for this and other stuff. Please don't remove it without better reasoning explained here.
11:48:18 AM Mar 27th 2012
edited by Llola
You are writing your own concept of the story. It's fan fiction plain and simple. It has nothing at all to do with the show except you're using the show's characters in your work. It doesn't belong on the show's list of tropes or trivia section. How is it remotely trivia? You have a link on the Abridged Series page already. This belongs in the fan fic section.

I'll allow time for a rebuttal on why it's trivia before I remove it. Copying someone else is not a reason.
12:05:05 PM Mar 27th 2012
To me it seems like a piece of trivia about the show, but since you're adamant, I'll remove it. I'm opening a thread here to ask if anyone wants to do a rec for it; if not, then it won't end up on that page or any other directly related to Once Upon a Time. Is that fair?
07:59:13 AM Apr 4th 2012
Actually Llola, it's not Telcontar's series, it's mine. And really it doesn't seem like you have a reason to take the link down (Because even the mods said it was acceptable) other than your odd agenda against me.
03:53:29 PM Apr 14th 2012
...Hoooooooooly dear God, this got messy and personal FAST.
07:13:54 PM Jan 30th 2013
To: Telcontar if you have never watched Once Upon A Time then you have no business moderating this page or telling people what to do or providing links. Unless you have watched the show you need to get off this page.
01:10:08 AM Jan 31st 2013
Work and trope pages on this wiki are open to anyone for editing, regardless of familiarity with the work; otherwise, things like Trope Repair Shop cleanups would never get done, as they often require looking at entries on pages for unfamiliar works.

I don't moderate this page (especially as I'm not a moderator!); I just glance at it from time to time, since I am interested in watching the series at some point.
04:10:05 PM Feb 6th 2012
Does anyone else think Regina's evilness is seriously uplayed by Emma. I mean really. Emma basically has no right to see Henry at all. Not that Regina's exactly nice, but I really don't find her as evil as the show is trying to make her out to be.
12:17:51 AM Mar 6th 2012
As of the episode "Dreamy", I think it's fair to say that Emma doesn't need to exaggerate Regina's bad qualities. Regina does that all by herself.
08:07:25 PM Apr 25th 2012
Well, imagine the situation: The kid you gave up to adoption ten years ago suddenly shows up saying that his mom doesn't love him. It's pretty bad, he's just a kid and doesn't feel loved at all. God knows what Emma imagined Regina was doing to this kid.
06:20:01 AM May 30th 2012
"Regina isn't as evil as the show makes her out to be"? Sorry—can't hear you over the sound of Graham's body hitting the floor. Of course, I'm being a little flippant, (sorry, couldn't resist; it tends to irk me when people gloss over Graham), and Emma wouldn't know that Regina raped and murdered him, but—yeah, the woman is pretty evil. As in, while we do hear a lot of Henry insisting that she's evil, she has a whole list of unpleasant, life-ruining deeds to back it up.

Emma cares about Henry, but she does concede (even up to episode 21) that he's "Regina's son" and she never says that she has a right to him because she's his bio-mom. She sticks around because Obviously Evil Regina threatens her twice in twenty-four hours and gives off some seriously creepy vibes.
12:19:12 AM Jan 10th 2012
edited by Allronix
Crapsack, Crapsacchrine, World Half Full?

Numerous people have cited the Fairy Tale realm as a Crapsacchrine World. It has enchantment and beauty galore, but what little we've seen of it hasn't been good. King George is flat broke, spends the whole episode trying to armor-plate his butt, and shows a callous disregard for his knights and the stand-in he rather callously grabbed to pass off as his fallen son, blackmailing Shepherd to keep up the act. The "real" Prince slaughtered a prisoner without an eyeblink as part of a blood sport. Dragon attacks plague the countryside, there's a war going on that's requiring boys of 14 to go to the front lines as cannon fodder. Jiminy's sociopath parents run wild with no one to stop them, as did Snow White's thievery career. Even after things "improve," it seems Cinderella's kingdom was suffering from a horrible drought. Rumpelstiltskin cuts deals with impunity, even from a jail cell. Oh, and magic always comes with insanely high price tags.

Bluntly speaking, this is not a pleasant and happy world. If Kingdom Hearts is "Disney meets Final Fantasy," then this series is "Disney meets Neverwinter Nights."
06:19:15 PM Dec 11th 2011
edited by ChocolateGateau
I noticed someone "fixed" the hot tip on the name "Regina." I said it's Italian for "queen." Someone changed it to Latin. Guess what? We're both right. Latin doesn't win out just because it's the origin language.

Please don't make needless changes. There was no error there.
12:16:21 AM Dec 12th 2011
Actually, I'd say Latin does win because it's the base/root language from whence grew all the Romance Languages.

It wasn't an error in the colloquially accepted sense, but if I'd thought of it first, I'd probably have made the same correction/clarification.

08:17:21 AM Dec 12th 2011
edited by ChocolateGateau
Thanks for teaching me something I already knew. So by that argument, why don't we get rid of all the Gratuitous Foreign Language tropes for Romance languages and put them under "Gratuitous Latin?" It's all the same, right?

It doesn't matter. There was no error, so it didn't need to be changed.
06:09:16 AM Apr 22nd 2012
I think people appreciate having the original language cited. It's not a big deal, no need to get upset. I'm sure you can acknowledge that historically Latin has a little more weight in myth and legend than Italian. That's all.
11:21:58 PM Nov 7th 2011
Is Emma really a living lie detector, as in an explicit superpower? She just seems to be good at reading people.
07:20:44 AM Nov 8th 2011
We don't know for sure, but I would guess that given the nature of the show, the fact that she originates from a magical land, and the ability is reliable enough for her to refer to it as a "super power", I'd go with yes for now.
06:10:00 AM Nov 10th 2011
Yeah, but my vague memory is that she only called it a "superpower" while screwing with Henry long before she believed in anything supernatural at all...
11:01:25 PM Nov 10th 2011
I agree, she did only call it a superpower while talking to Henry, but that's a term that'd make sense to a child.

Still, I'd say Tableau's point stands. It's still reliable enough that she'd pick that term to simplify it for a kid. So I'm inclined to think that the living lie detector trope is fair to use unless the show gives us proof that it's not some kind of gift. (I'm inclined to think it is because she knew Regina was lying after being asked "do you love him" about Henry).
10:00:04 PM Nov 14th 2011
edited by illegalcheese
Edit: You know what, I'm just going to make a small edit that takes care of my problem.
01:45:55 PM Oct 31st 2011
Why is there no WMG page?
01:49:01 PM Oct 31st 2011
09:10:36 PM Oct 23rd 2011
Doesn't Hey, It's That Guy! go in the Trivia section for a page? I'm not sure how to generate a trivia page?
06:35:11 AM May 2nd 2012
To make a subpage, you go the URL, then you replace the namespace of a work with the namespace of said subpage. For example here, you replace Series/ with Trivia/, but a Trivia page for the series is already made.
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