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VVK
topic
08:08:06 AM Jun 6th 2012
edited by VVK
Removed the following for being Square Peg Round Trope or similar:

  • Aborted Arc: It's not An Arc, just an element.
  • Eldritch Abomination: The Windigoes aren't that eldritch. Not that eldritch, anyway. Nothing incomprehensibly, maddeningly strange.
  • Evil Chancellor: Not worth mentioning as an aversion, especially when Chancellor Puddinghead isn't even a "chancellor" in the sense intended in the trope, ie. an advisor or other second-or-so-in-command.
  • Princesses Rule: This play basically has six characters, so we can't really tell what the role of someone offscreen like the unicorn king would be.
VVK
08:22:51 AM Jun 6th 2012
  • What Happened to the Mouse?: As stated in the natter, explanations for it are easy to think of, and it's certainly not reasonable to think the extras actually disappear according to the story.
VVK
08:26:38 AM Jun 6th 2012
edited by VVK
  • Super-Persistent Predator: Slightly less certain about this, but it seems the trope is about natural animals going way out of their way to hunt humans, whereas there's no obvious reason why it wouldn't be a good idea for the Windigos based on their ecology. If they knew all the ponies were going to move over, it was even necessary to follow them.
VVK
08:44:49 AM Jun 6th 2012
VVK
08:50:32 AM Jun 6th 2012
edited by VVK
VVK
09:33:44 AM Jun 6th 2012
  • Brick Joke: The return of the element (open window) was not a joke.
VVK
06:12:06 AM Jun 21st 2012
Scalondragon
topic
08:05:09 AM Mar 30th 2012
When Princess Platinum, Commander Hurricane and Chancellor Puddinghead are frozen over, leaving Clover the Clever, Private Pansy and Smart Cookie to face and fight the Windigoes themselves, would that be You Are in Command Now, Unexpected Successor or Take Up My Sword? The "Heroines" of each group are taken out leaving their "Lancers" to carry on.
VVK
08:13:23 AM Jun 6th 2012
Looking at the tropes, it's none of them. I can't think of any already defined trope that it fits.
theodrixx
topic
01:19:59 AM Dec 19th 2011
edited by theodrixx
In the cave, when Smart Cookie and Clover the Clever are reluctantly outlining their respective leaders' territories, they look at each other for a second and it's clear that they're both thinking "yeah, this is ridiculous."

You know when two characters have never met, but they're such clear counterparts of each other and they're both in such similar situations that they instantly "get" each other?

What is that trope?
OmniSonic
09:42:06 AM Dec 19th 2011
I can't find an exact trope but I would assume something to do with empathy or Psychic Link. If there was a trope named Empathetic Twins that would probably be it.
Godzil
10:23:29 PM Dec 19th 2011
XenotheHedgehog
topic
01:04:10 AM Dec 19th 2011
This is at least the third Episode to have Rarity obsessing over a rock.
OmniSonic
09:48:58 AM Dec 19th 2011
A dumb rock, even.
theodrixx
topic
09:14:32 PM Dec 18th 2011
edited by theodrixx
Why are people making a big deal out of the fact that this episode is 13th in production order?

Production order is almost meaningless in terms of continuity - especially for this show. For one, the episodes are written such that it doesn't matter which order one watches them in.

Further, release order should hold much more credence than production order, since the fact that the episode was released in the 11th slot rather than the 13th means that they meant it to be released in the 11th slot (barring some kind of speed bump).
OmniSonic
12:10:25 AM Dec 19th 2011
I think part of the reason people are harping on it was because plot summaries by certain cable providers marked this as the 13th episode when it is really the 11th. If those summaries had gotten their facts straight people wouldn't be crooning production order from the rooftops. It's quite the overreaction to a trivial error, but that's the Internet for you.
Whatshisgame
03:34:04 AM Dec 19th 2011
It's not just certain cable providers; the official iTunes release lists it as episode 13. Anyway, that discussion is here.
AppleDashWINS
topic
04:36:17 PM Dec 18th 2011
The dialogue quoted in the summary (the one between Rarity and Fluttershy) is terribly placed. however, it does deserve mention, since it was pretty funny. What trope could we move it under? Performance Anxiety? Not Helping Your Case? Whatever trope we used to describe Fluttershy's "reassurance" to Rainbow in "Sonic Rainboom"?

if we can't think of anything, it should just be taken out.
OmniSonic
12:15:23 AM Dec 19th 2011
I'd argue more towards Performance Anxiety since Rarity's few previous lines beforehand might have actually helped if she hadn't followed them up so poorly. If I recall correctly (which I don't always do, given my comment above) this is the most forward example of Fluttershy's stage fright; we see parts of it in Green Isn't Your Color but it isn't taken to the point where she's cowering in a cardboard box.
VVK
08:30:05 AM Jun 6th 2012
edited by VVK
Sounds like Go Ye Heroes, Go and Die. Not Performance Anxiety in trope terms, though it's certainly that literally.
MiVaTh
topic
12:49:34 PM Dec 18th 2011
Can we say anything about the pegasi being spartan analogues? They have the helmet (not Fluttershy, she has a conquistadores helmet), warrior culture and name their cities in the Greek way ( -opolis).
theodrixx
08:57:25 PM Dec 18th 2011
It's there already.
ParadiscaCorbasi
topic
10:24:23 AM Dec 18th 2011
Since when do Fridge items not go on YMMV? Did the rule change again? I thought that's where they belong now. That's what the edit page says when you put one on the main page, doesn't it?
AppleDashWINS
06:12:11 AM Dec 19th 2011
My interpretation is that YMMV includes specific examples that can be interpreted differently by others, where indeed, You Mileaeg May Vary. (ie Broken Base, The Woobie, Kick The Bitch)

As for Fridge, it's like the borderline between Your Mileage May Vary and Wild Mass Guessing, where Fridge Logic and Fridge Horror go. The difference is that Fridge stuff is not specific to a trope; they're theories based on evidence provided in canon then analyzed (sometimes over-analyzed :P). For example, in this ep, the Alicorns weren't present for the founding of Equestria. Many theories have been proposed, but while people may think YMMV for that, it goes under Fridge because 1) It's a theory, so of course people will think differently on it and 2) it doesn't fall under a trope properly enough to be an example on a YMMV page.
Drakrrth
topic
08:53:45 AM Dec 18th 2011
Similar to the "Windigo" thing above, is the chancellor Puddinghead or Puddin' Head? And where is it stated that Clover was a vizier?
Whatshisgame
03:07:27 PM Dec 18th 2011
Puddinghead, according to layout artist Nayuki.

I dunno about the vizier thing though.
OmniSonic
topic
12:21:08 AM Dec 18th 2011
This is a celebration of Hearth's Warming Eve, right? So what do ponies do on Hearth's Warming Day? Just keep their fireplaces lit?

Also, I got really confused during this episode because I thought it contradicted the Winter Wrap Up story of Equestria being founded by earth ponies. That is, until I remembered just a few minutes ago that Winter Wrap Up states PONYVILLE was founded by earth ponies, not Equestria. Just throwing that out there in case anyone else wasn't paying attention like me.
ShayGuy
03:49:00 PM Dec 18th 2011
You'll recall that it made a point out of that — Spike was wondering why they couldn't just use magic like in Canterlot, to which Twilight responded by bringing up that particular difference. :-)
SolarFox
topic
06:32:55 PM Dec 17th 2011
edited by SolarFox
The ponies seem to be playing I Spy wrong. Isn't the goal of the game to guess what the other pony sees? Would this be justified for a trope, and if so, which one?

Another one. During the cave scene, none of the leader ponies have their headgear. Yet as soon as they step outside, all their apparel has reappeared. Tropeable?
OmniSonic
12:10:39 AM Dec 18th 2011
Technically, they are playing it right, if only half-heartedly. Their observations are quite obvious and they're really only passing the time. See also Something That Begins with "Boring".

Animation errors are archived on the bottom of the Trivia page.
SolarFox
02:01:15 AM Dec 18th 2011
Got it. Thanks for your advice.
ShayGuy
topic
06:26:43 PM Dec 17th 2011
I'm sure I'm not alone in being a bit disappointed in the lack of "And that's how I got my cutie mark!" in this episode.
CharginChuck
06:44:26 PM Dec 17th 2011
No, you most certainly are not. Definitely a Missed Moment of Awesome.
theodrixx
topic
05:59:36 PM Dec 17th 2011
Is there enough evidence that Rainbow Dash was playing a male role in the play? Here's some of it, in order of relevance.

1. Fluttershy says "yes, sir" as opposed to "yes, ma'am." Admittedly I am not knowledgeable in the field of military etiquette, but I would have thought it would be customary, as it is in the civilian world, to distinguish between genders in such cases.

2. "Commander Hurricane" is a decidedly masculine name. Your Mileage May Vary on this, but there you go.

3. RD's character in the play is very aggressive and belligerent. This doesn't say a lot, since that's what RD tends to be like in real life, too. Hence why it's furthest down the list.
ShayGuy
06:25:35 PM Dec 17th 2011
Fluttershy/Pansy also refers to Hurricane as "her" in the cave. Using "sir" for a female cartoon character has precedent.
theodrixx
06:34:39 PM Dec 17th 2011
Oh, didn't catch that.

Never mind, you guys! I Failed a Spot Check!
AppleDashWINS
04:30:31 PM Dec 18th 2011
soo does this mean we can take out the Cross Player entry?
gs
04:49:08 PM Dec 18th 2011
Cross Player is a gaming trope to start with, its not currently appropriate for theatrical cross-dressing.

Also if we can't establish Commander Hurricane's historical gender we can't establish it, and so any speculation is just speculation no matter how some fans might feel "it makes sense" or some such it would be a speculation trope.
Godzil
10:19:01 PM Dec 19th 2011
In a militarisitc setting, all officers are referred to as "sir" regardless of gender. For example, Lt. Saavik of Star Trek, despite being female, is referred to as "Mister Saavik".
AppleDashWINS
topic
04:54:56 PM Dec 17th 2011
So... episode is titled "Hearth's Warming" Clover saves them from the W[e/i]ndigoes with a heart shaped fire WHAT IS THIS???? Meaningful Name? Fridge Logic? Chekhov's Title?
theodrixx
05:31:43 PM Dec 17th 2011
A hearth is kind of an archaic term for a fireplace. It has metaphorical value, as seen in such phrases as "hearth and home." Basically, it refers to one's home. Which could, proverbially, be composed of one's social environment - i.e. friends and family. Thus it promotes harmony, etc. while also being reminiscent of the old human tradition of breaking out the firewood on Christmas Eve.
OmniSonic
12:14:34 AM Dec 18th 2011
Clover saves the ponies with heartwarming, and the episode is named Hearth's Warming Eve. Sounds like another punny title if anything.
CharginChuck
topic
01:23:37 PM Dec 17th 2011
When Spike breaks from his narration to make a comment toward the audience, would that count as an in-universe Breaking the Fourth Wall?
ParadiscaCorbasi
04:37:49 PM Dec 17th 2011
I'm not sure; he was kind of talking to the audience in the first place, acting as narrator of the story.
theodrixx
05:43:23 PM Dec 17th 2011
A narrator is always speaking directly to the audience, so they are not limited by a fourth wall. When he makes the comment, he's breaking character a little, but that's about it.
ParadiscaCorbasi
topic
11:38:53 AM Dec 17th 2011
edited by ParadiscaCorbasi
I would say that we use "Windigo". I know it's a particular spelling variation of Wendigo but given this show's tendency to embrace Just for Pun, it makes sense.

Plus, Wendigos are more like yeti and usually have cannibalism involved.

They were like horses, and fomented hate and mistrust to nourish themselves. They have very little in common with the more well known human-based Wendigo myth. Plus, they were wind creatures.

To avoid an Edit War can we make Windigos the official spelling? That's how it was pronounced in show as well.

theodrixx
05:28:30 PM Dec 17th 2011
edited by theodrixx
The pronunciation of "wendigo" is "windigo." Which is why "windigo" is an accepted spelling, although "wendigo" is more popular.

The way I see it, the decision hinges on one thing:

Whether the wendigos seen in series resemble the wendigos of original mythology enough to argue that the writers simply lifted the legend, while adding some new elements.

I think they do, inasmuch as they are vaguely spiritual beings associated with cold. Obviously their "cannibalism" aspect wasn't adapted, but this could be chalked up to censorship. Or perhaps the writers ignored it because it didn't have much story value.

Also, the pun "wind-igo" only vaguely works, because the wendigos bring snow and cold and famine, not just wind.

Thoughts?
SolarFox
06:36:14 PM Dec 17th 2011
edited by SolarFox
They are feeding on the negative emotions of ponies, and in the end, even freeze their victims entirely. I would say that's as close a reference to cannibalism as a show like this can manage. Still, I'd agree with "Windigo" purely for the pun.

CharginChuck
06:45:21 PM Dec 17th 2011
The MLP wiki says windigo, so I'm going with that.
theodrixx
07:06:21 PM Dec 17th 2011
edited by theodrixx
And I guess it would also clarify pronunciation because, after all, Viewers Are Morons.

It keeps getting checked out; can someone find-and-replace when they get a chance?
Whatshisgame
03:13:19 PM Dec 18th 2011
edited by Whatshisgame
How do the closed captions spell it? Inaccurate as they are, we don't yet have any other official source for their names (unlike with the six founding ponies).

EDIT: Apparently, the closed captions spell it as "Wendigo."
VVK
03:08:43 PM Dec 22nd 2011
edited by VVK
Oh, you were already discussing this. I say that however it's spelled, it's just not the trope. The cannibalism is an essential part of the trope. Would we be saying something is an example of some other trope if we had to make equations as unlikely as Emotion Eater = cannibalism to make it fit?

Then again... if they were really meant to be the "same" thing...
Masem
topic
10:13:08 AM Dec 17th 2011
We need to be careful of editing these recaps on day of airing. I'm seeing swathes of valid tropes being wiped out because an editor prepares an edit using the page source and then copy/pastes that into the text box without incorporating edits in between.

Maybe 6hr+ out from the episode error this is ok, but not when the page is being edited at a high rate.
ParadiscaCorbasi
04:40:22 PM Dec 17th 2011
I'd say let's give it 24 hours before doing huge copy-paste edits. I've watched the page and timed how long it takes to slow down from the first 10 am East Coast American airing.
gs
topic
08:10:18 AM Dec 17th 2011
edited by gs
I may not be able to nab a slot to delete it, but can we wipe the "Slave/Servant" race bit from this page. The pony tribes in the episode clearly met on equal political terms as self-governing tribes, that's not subservient if not well liked. Fantastic Racism can stand but should be noted in all directions as was the episode's point. None of the three leaders was any more reasonable then the others.

EDIT: Did delete it.
GoldenSandslash15
topic
07:19:43 AM Dec 3rd 2011
Please move this to S 2 E 11. Don't worry about production order. If that's the case, you guys already screwed it up. The Ticket Master was the first episode produced, according to Lauren Faust's interview with Equestria Daily.
Whatshisgame
05:44:47 PM Dec 3rd 2011
edited by Whatshisgame
EDIT: Discussion here.
back to Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS2E13HearthsWarmingEve

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