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SoullessSingularity
topic
12:57:36 PM Feb 21st 2014
I'm unsure where to talk about this, since I just signed up specifically to point out that this entire page is filled with inaccuracies and stereotypes to the point of being offensive. The picture provided gives an extremely simplified, wholly inaccurate depiction of personality disorders. Certain things, such as "If you really want a better grasp of these disorders, it helps to get a basic understanding of evolution and the process of natural selection. Thinking about how this behavior would be useful in a low tech hunter-gatherer society tends to help too." are just completely wrong. In particular, there is basically no sentence under the schizotypal folder that is the least bit accurate to the actual disorder. The other folders are also filled with severe inaccuracies and offensive stereotypes without the least hint of irony.

Either this page should state that it's purposefully being completely inaccurate or this page basically needs to be completely rewritten. At the moment, every folder depicts a somewhat offensive caricature of the disorders they are labeled. I'm sorry again, I don't know where really to bring this point up since I'm new.
SeptimusHeap
01:51:14 AM Feb 22nd 2014
Well, the page is about the Hollywood portrayal, which is of course laden with stereotypes and inaccuracies.
SoullessSingularity
03:15:16 PM Feb 22nd 2014
It doesn't become disconcerting that the article makes no difference between how hollywood depicts something and how it actually is in real life? There is nothing here that indicates that the entire article is being purposefully stereotyping in order to be ironic about it. Compare this with the "tourettes" hollywood article, which makes clear distinctions between how hollywood and how real life are different.
KawaiiGoblin
topic
03:36:55 PM Sep 11th 2013
edited by 216.99.32.42
Okay, so I've been a fan of this site for years and I finally made an account to comment on this page. (Of course that's not the only reason, but you get it.)

Basically the first thing it says on this page is that personality disorders have nothing to do with brain setup or mood, but that's entirely untrue. I have Borderline Personality Disorder and there is LOADS of research and neuroscience confirming that personality disorders (particularly antisocial and borderline) are rooted in the brain's setup and environmental factors during childhood (that's not a "Freudian Excuse," that's fact.) They are mental illnesses and mental illnesses are all caused by the brain being affected. It is an organ, after all, and it can be injured.

I understand that this is a comedic site and all, but when you're talking about real illnesses that people suffer from and not general character tropes, it's a little important to actually have your facts straight. There is some decent information in the subheadings, but right now it mostly just sounds like you're making fun of sick people and lumping them in with any character that behaves "badly." Right now the page isn't satirical or talking about how Hollywood messes up illnesses or doesn't understand them...it's just DOING that.

Also...DEM EXAMPLES. Nostalgia Critic has Borderline apparently? Again, we're not labeling stock characters or tropes here like "Cloud Cuckoo Lander" or "Chaotic Evil." We're actually talking about diseases. I love the site and all and I can take a joke, but imagine labeling random characters with physical illnesses based on mere conjecture, blaming them for being sick, or stating that cancer is caused by the person "just being that way" and you'll see what I mean. There's enough stigma attached to this stuff already...I don't need any more reasons for people to assume I'm an asshole, haha.

P.S. Even if I'm not sure I agree that Anakin/Vader has the same condition as me, I'll at least accept it being listed here because the diagnosis was made by actual psychologists and is listed on the Darth Vader & Borderline Wiki pages. Maybe add characters that the author(s) have stated as having these diagnoses too?
jate88
08:56:22 AM Sep 30th 2013
Maybe you'd have more luck if you voiced your concerns in the trope repair shop or the cut list.
HarleyQuinnhyenaholic
topic
12:40:24 PM Aug 25th 2013
All the examples on this page could be cut, in favour of a list of links. After all, the disorders already have sub-pages and the sub-pages have far more examples; why list them here?
jate88
06:35:19 PM Oct 23rd 2013
The antisocial, narcissitic, obsessive compulsive, and possibly the avoidant are the only ones with pre-existing tropes that are a good match.
Niria
09:46:52 PM Oct 23rd 2013
Narcissistic is the only one with an exact match. Antisocial is considered the same as being a sociopath by some, but others see some difference.

I don't think Obsessive-Compulsive or Avoidant even come close to already having pages, although there may be a page I don't know about or something.
jate88
06:51:43 AM Oct 25th 2013
I was thinking Super OCD for the obsessive compulsive since most people think OCD is OCPD, and Shrinking Violet for the avoiant.
morenohijazo
topic
06:02:25 AM Mar 17th 2013
Would Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory and Phoebe from Friends count as antisocial and schizotypal respectively?
HarleyQuinnhyenaholic
12:38:25 PM Aug 25th 2013
Sheldon Cooper has more symptoms relating to Asperger Syndrome (which involves antisocial behaviour, but I digress...) Phoebe could be schizotypal though - frequently she's different because she wants to be different.
Niria
03:37:34 PM Sep 30th 2013
Sheldon is definitely NOT Antisocial: He has a conscience. If he had a personality disorder, Schizoid would come closest (with some Narcissistic tendencies). But I agree with Harley that an extremely bad case of Asperger's fits him best.
Allsmileysfly
topic
05:17:47 PM Aug 18th 2012
Hmm.... shouldn't this page just be called "Personality Disorders"? Unlike Hollywood Pudgy or Hollywood Nerd, it doesn't really cover how Hollywood movies, TV, etc. portray people with these problems.
pliff2
03:04:53 PM Jan 3rd 2013
Yes I'm with you, Hollywood on tv.tropes most of the time means, how Hollywood gets it wrong but this page mostly just says who has personality Disorders(and at times it not even canon so it's more like guessing.)
Telcontar
moderator
02:19:19 AM Jan 4th 2013
Hollywood X pages here aren't in the best of states.
jate88
06:56:15 PM Jan 13th 2013
This used to be a useful notes page but per decision at the repair shop it was deemed this was offensive and poorly researched so it was moved to hollywood x.
morenohijazo
05:59:58 AM Mar 17th 2013
Where is the TRS thread?
jate88
08:54:55 AM Apr 10th 2013
edited by jate88
The TRS thread

Though there's been many changes to the page since that discussion took place. Not sure if any improvements have been made. Any ways the DSM-5 is coming out soon and it might be a good idea to take into account the changes they're making to the personality disorder section. As character types I seen nothing wrong with turning the ten personality disorders in the DSM-4 into tropes.
PrometheusUnboundUnbound
topic
12:49:53 PM Mar 3rd 2012
To the cretinous buffoon who says that I have no idea what I'm talking about, see this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt0LcExXAUM

And no it's not me, my voice is much sexier than that but I still agree with everything the narrator said.
lichtspektren
11:14:37 PM Mar 3rd 2012
The narrator has no credentials. Sorry. Rainbow Dash has no trouble trusting her friends, especially point to a personality disorder; Pinkie Pie's is classified by her mood swings rather than some compulsive need for attention (which she never shows, her desire is for relationships, not drama), and Rarity's ability to view her friends as equals instantly deflates any possibility that she's narcissistic. Thanks for the insult though, I'll be sure to remember that next time you're citing random Youtube videos.
jate88
topic
11:19:48 PM Dec 30th 2011
Kanon Nakagawa is a capture target in The World God Only Knows. She looks like she might be histrionic or avoidant but I'm not familiar with the series.
lichtspektren
topic
01:02:11 PM Dec 18th 2011
The DSM-IV doesn't consider passive-agressive personality disorder or sadistic personality disorder to be their own diagnoses anymore. I'd say remove them, unless we're going to go by the ICD-10 instead.

Also I'd advocate a section that has media that SPECIFICALLY is meant to incorporate characters with several personality disorders, like Superego and Evangelion
reub2000
01:50:29 PM Dec 18th 2011
We're not following any specific diagnostic manual. We're just cataloging when certain personality types show up in media.
lichtspektren
10:36:13 PM Dec 18th 2011
Evidently we are following the DSM, since we're calling the disorders as they're listed (and formerly listed, as is the case for PAPD and SPD) in the manual. For good reason, too; the point of this article is that we're identifying fictional characters with nonfictional disorders, and so it makes sense to consult a professional source about it.
reub2000
06:50:38 PM Dec 19th 2011
Okay, maybe so. But we're not following a specific version of a specific manual. Yes, these disorders where deleted, but there are still criteria out there that we can apply to fictional characters.
lichtspektren
02:02:27 PM Dec 20th 2011
They were deleted for a reason. Passive aggressive and sadistic behavior are considered problematic but not symptoms of personality disorders.
reub2000
12:03:11 AM Dec 22nd 2011
Not sure. I'd think that both represent long term deviations of normal emotions and behavior that cause problems. Anyways, we don't list the most commonly used PD diagnosis in real life, PD-NOS.
jate88
09:31:07 AM Dec 23rd 2011
Didn't they get rid of sadistic personality disorder not because of any scientific evidence but because of legal concerns in abuse cases?
lichtspektren
04:14:09 PM Dec 23rd 2011
That's one of about a dozen reasons. I vote we remove the section son PAPD and SPD. The only reason to have them is so the authors can show everybody that they know trivia on the history of psychiatry. They're not valid diagnoses.
reub2000
06:12:17 PM Dec 23rd 2011
1. So instead of including trivia on past diagnosis, this page would just be trivia on current diagnosis? 2. The merit of the diagnoses would only matter if we were trying to study or treat people. We're not doing either of those. 3. Even so, the validity of the categorical approach taken by the DSM-IV to personality pathology is undergoing a radical change in the DSM-5, and for good reason. Real people can't be pigeon-holed into categories. So if that's your reason for deleting those sections, then the whole page should be nuked.

I think this page has a lot in common with the pages dealing with D&D alignment. In both cases, where using an oversimplified system created by a third party to categorize the attitudes of characters.

jate88
02:40:49 PM Dec 24th 2011
^ Considering shows like Neon Genesis Evangelion and Super Ego I have to agree.
lichtspektren
11:03:11 PM Dec 24th 2011
1. It's not 'trivia' if we're using a professional, up-to-date source. 2. The 'merit of the diagnosis' matters because it reflects conditions that real people experience. PAPD and SPD are not valid diagnoses because they're not real conditions. 3. Go read up on what's being changed for the DSM-v. It's not a radical change.
jate88
04:08:41 PM Dec 25th 2011
I have read it and they were planning on getting rid of the paranoid, schizoid, histrionic, narcissitic, and dependent personality disorders. Does this mean we should get rid of those once they do?
lichtspektren
05:07:35 AM Dec 26th 2011
They're not deleting those as personality disorders, though there is debate on some of the ways the symptoms are characterized. Having said that: when the DSM-v comes out, yes, we should update this page.
reub2000
07:35:44 PM Dec 29th 2011
Here is a cross walk showing how DSM-IV personality disorders would be diagnosed under the new system. Also, the way the criteria are setup for DSM-5 disorders is different from DSM-IV disorders. But I don't think any other article on mental disorders follows DSM criteria. I guess a useful notes page would be more appropriate if you wanted to cover that type of thing.

On an OT note, is My Little Ponies supposed to be a childrens show?
jate88
11:17:47 PM Dec 30th 2011
That looks like they're removing the dependent, histrionic, paranoid, and schizoid to me and giving the people who have them a new diagnosis.

My Little Ponies is marketed toward children but is known for its older periphery demographic.
TiberiusBlaze
topic
10:33:55 AM Sep 19th 2011
Why is there a picture of Caprica Six from Battlestar Galactica in the section for Histrionic personality disorder? I've never seen her exhibit behaviour consistent with that disorder?
jate88
05:50:49 PM Sep 20th 2011
edited by jate88
I got the picture from a snapshot of the music video ''High Maintenance Woman'' by Toby Keith. It might be the same actress but the characters are different.

I linked the picture to the song on youtube to prevent any future confusion. Is that the right thing to do?
TiberiusBlaze
08:19:00 PM Sep 21st 2011
Perfect. Thanks.
shimaspawn
moderator
topic
09:03:20 AM Sep 14th 2011
citizenJames
09:09:56 PM Jan 8th 2012
Lampshaded in Psych (season 6 episode 'Shaun interrupted" where the characters go undercover in a mental institution under the cover of 'narcissistic personality disorder', which already fits the character fairly well.
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