12:20:05 PM Dec 17th 2015
Hi, I just wanted to make a quick correction. Avoidant personality disorder isn't on the schizophrenia spectrum. Also, the positive symptoms of schizophrenia include things like delusions and hallucinations, which people who just have avoidant personality disorder don't have.
11:21:58 PM May 15th 2015
I'm thinking it's not, but I was wondering if it is permissible to use a character as an example if he was based on a real person. Since that would probably mean the person he was based on would have to be diagnosed with the same PD as well, I can see that creating a sort of grey area (if the RL person wasn't already diagnosed by a professional). I'm just really tempted to use Jordan Belfort from the Wolf of Wall Street as an example of someone with APD, but the movie was based on an autobiographical memoir, I believe.
01:44:41 AM May 16th 2015
12:57:36 PM Feb 21st 2014
I'm unsure where to talk about this, since I just signed up specifically to point out that this entire page is filled with inaccuracies and stereotypes to the point of being offensive. The picture provided gives an extremely simplified, wholly inaccurate depiction of personality disorders. Certain things, such as "If you really want a better grasp of these disorders, it helps to get a basic understanding of evolution and the process of natural selection. Thinking about how this behavior would be useful in a low tech hunter-gatherer society tends to help too." are just completely wrong. In particular, there is basically no sentence under the schizotypal folder that is the least bit accurate to the actual disorder. The other folders are also filled with severe inaccuracies and offensive stereotypes without the least hint of irony. Either this page should state that it's purposefully being completely inaccurate or this page basically needs to be completely rewritten. At the moment, every folder depicts a somewhat offensive caricature of the disorders they are labeled. I'm sorry again, I don't know where really to bring this point up since I'm new.
01:51:14 AM Feb 22nd 2014
Well, the page is about the Hollywood portrayal, which is of course laden with stereotypes and inaccuracies.
03:15:16 PM Feb 22nd 2014
It doesn't become disconcerting that the article makes no difference between how hollywood depicts something and how it actually is in real life? There is nothing here that indicates that the entire article is being purposefully stereotyping in order to be ironic about it. Compare this with the "tourettes" hollywood article, which makes clear distinctions between how hollywood and how real life are different.
03:36:55 PM Sep 11th 2013
edited by 220.127.116.11
edited by 18.104.22.168
Okay, so I've been a fan of this site for years and I finally made an account to comment on this page. (Of course that's not the only reason, but you get it.) Basically the first thing it says on this page is that personality disorders have nothing to do with brain setup or mood, but that's entirely untrue. I have Borderline Personality Disorder and there is LOADS of research and neuroscience confirming that personality disorders (particularly antisocial and borderline) are rooted in the brain's setup and environmental factors during childhood (that's not a "Freudian Excuse," that's fact.) They are mental illnesses and mental illnesses are all caused by the brain being affected. It is an organ, after all, and it can be injured. I understand that this is a comedic site and all, but when you're talking about real illnesses that people suffer from and not general character tropes, it's a little important to actually have your facts straight. There is some decent information in the subheadings, but right now it mostly just sounds like you're making fun of sick people and lumping them in with any character that behaves "badly." Right now the page isn't satirical or talking about how Hollywood messes up illnesses or doesn't understand them...it's just DOING that. Also...DEM EXAMPLES. Nostalgia Critic has Borderline apparently? Again, we're not labeling stock characters or tropes here like "Cloud Cuckoo Lander" or "Chaotic Evil." We're actually talking about diseases. I love the site and all and I can take a joke, but imagine labeling random characters with physical illnesses based on mere conjecture, blaming them for being sick, or stating that cancer is caused by the person "just being that way" and you'll see what I mean. There's enough stigma attached to this stuff already...I don't need any more reasons for people to assume I'm an asshole, haha. P.S. Even if I'm not sure I agree that Anakin/Vader has the same condition as me, I'll at least accept it being listed here because the diagnosis was made by actual psychologists and is listed on the Darth Vader & Borderline Wiki pages. Maybe add characters that the author(s) have stated as having these diagnoses too?
08:56:22 AM Sep 30th 2013
Maybe you'd have more luck if you voiced your concerns in the trope repair shop or the cut list.
01:11:26 AM May 17th 2015
Hm, I know this was posted a looong time ago, but I kind of wanted to respond to this comment, anyway, even though I'm not sure if you'll receive it. When it comes to the fictional characters that end up as examples, I not only think of them as being Hollywood's take on the P Ds, but also...the most dramatic, most severe expressions of these disorders? What I mean is, in the case of bad guys, they're going to have (atypically) violent expressions of the disorder, and in many cases, BPD is likely not to be their only mental health issue. With Anakin Skywalker, for example, he could be said to have a very severe expression of Narcissistic Personality Disorder as well (though within the Star Wars universe, his extremely self-centered behavior could also be attributed to being corrupted by the Dark Side, so it's hard to tell). Either way, it's not just the BPD that's at play. Maybe it's because one of my friends has BPD, but I never thought, upon reading this, that all people with these disorders are like the examples given. Even with APD, most people don't have nearly as extreme cases of it as the characters who end up as examples here. More run-of-the-mill thief than the Joker.
04:28:26 AM Jan 25th 2018
Agreed here. Even ASPD is very debatable, given that it's based on a test from the 1940s which only studiedn outward behaviours, not the internal anatomy and reasons for it. Conflating it with psychopathy and sociopathy was another one of the many mistakes DSM-5 did (never mind the huge can of worms of linking grief and major depression) . It is possible to be BPD and ASPD if the antisocial behaviour has an emotional root for example. But sociopathy and BPD cannot be comorbid, by definition. Even many serial killers weren't psychopathic- Damner was diagnosed with BPD and Schizoid, with sadistic features. Same goes for lack of empathy. Psychopaths and narcissists both lack empathy, but the reasons for it are very different- the former has a differently wired brain meaning they *physically cannot* feel it, while the latter is more about shielding the fragile ego by any means necessary. It is possible to be have NPD and ASPD and sadism to be comorbid (we call it malignant narcissism) but it is not possible to be a 'narcissistic psychopath'- that's an invention of Holywood and 1940s psychology. If you want a more nuanced, less "Us vs Them" images of the conditions, the research of James Fallon or the Psycho, Socio and Narc communities of Quora are good places to look and ask questions. Trying to say that 0.5-1% of the population are Complete Monsters raises a lot of unfortunate implications.
12:40:24 PM Aug 25th 2013
All the examples on this page could be cut, in favour of a list of links. After all, the disorders already have sub-pages and the sub-pages have far more examples; why list them here?
06:35:19 PM Oct 23rd 2013
The antisocial, narcissitic, obsessive compulsive, and possibly the avoidant are the only ones with pre-existing tropes that are a good match.
09:46:52 PM Oct 23rd 2013
06:02:25 AM Mar 17th 2013
12:38:25 PM Aug 25th 2013
Sheldon Cooper has more symptoms relating to Asperger Syndrome (which involves antisocial behaviour, but I digress...) Phoebe could be schizotypal though - frequently she's different because she wants to be different.
05:17:47 PM Aug 18th 2012
03:04:53 PM Jan 3rd 2013
Yes I'm with you, Hollywood on tv.tropes most of the time means, how Hollywood gets it wrong but this page mostly just says who has personality Disorders(and at times it not even canon so it's more like guessing.)
06:56:15 PM Jan 13th 2013
This used to be a useful notes page but per decision at the repair shop it was deemed this was offensive and poorly researched so it was moved to hollywood x.
08:54:55 AM Apr 10th 2013
edited by jate88
edited by jate88
The TRS thread Though there's been many changes to the page since that discussion took place. Not sure if any improvements have been made. Any ways the DSM-5 is coming out soon and it might be a good idea to take into account the changes they're making to the personality disorder section. As character types I seen nothing wrong with turning the ten personality disorders in the DSM-4 into tropes.
12:49:53 PM Mar 3rd 2012
To the cretinous buffoon who says that I have no idea what I'm talking about, see this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt0LcExXAUM And no it's not me, my voice is much sexier than that but I still agree with everything the narrator said.
11:14:37 PM Mar 3rd 2012
The narrator has no credentials. Sorry. Rainbow Dash has no trouble trusting her friends, especially point to a personality disorder; Pinkie Pie's is classified by her mood swings rather than some compulsive need for attention (which she never shows, her desire is for relationships, not drama), and Rarity's ability to view her friends as equals instantly deflates any possibility that she's narcissistic. Thanks for the insult though, I'll be sure to remember that next time you're citing random Youtube videos.
11:19:48 PM Dec 30th 2011
01:02:11 PM Dec 18th 2011
The DSM-IV doesn't consider passive-agressive personality disorder or sadistic personality disorder to be their own diagnoses anymore. I'd say remove them, unless we're going to go by the ICD-10 instead. Also I'd advocate a section that has media that SPECIFICALLY is meant to incorporate characters with several personality disorders, like Superego and Evangelion
01:50:29 PM Dec 18th 2011
We're not following any specific diagnostic manual. We're just cataloging when certain personality types show up in media.
10:36:13 PM Dec 18th 2011
Evidently we are following the DSM, since we're calling the disorders as they're listed (and formerly listed, as is the case for PAPD and SPD) in the manual. For good reason, too; the point of this article is that we're identifying fictional characters with nonfictional disorders, and so it makes sense to consult a professional source about it.
06:50:38 PM Dec 19th 2011
Okay, maybe so. But we're not following a specific version of a specific manual. Yes, these disorders where deleted, but there are still criteria out there that we can apply to fictional characters.
02:02:27 PM Dec 20th 2011
They were deleted for a reason. Passive aggressive and sadistic behavior are considered problematic but not symptoms of personality disorders.
12:03:11 AM Dec 22nd 2011
Not sure. I'd think that both represent long term deviations of normal emotions and behavior that cause problems. Anyways, we don't list the most commonly used PD diagnosis in real life, PD-NOS.
09:31:07 AM Dec 23rd 2011
Didn't they get rid of sadistic personality disorder not because of any scientific evidence but because of legal concerns in abuse cases?
04:14:09 PM Dec 23rd 2011
That's one of about a dozen reasons. I vote we remove the section son PAPD and SPD. The only reason to have them is so the authors can show everybody that they know trivia on the history of psychiatry. They're not valid diagnoses.
06:12:17 PM Dec 23rd 2011
1. So instead of including trivia on past diagnosis, this page would just be trivia on current diagnosis? 2. The merit of the diagnoses would only matter if we were trying to study or treat people. We're not doing either of those. 3. Even so, the validity of the categorical approach taken by the DSM-IV to personality pathology is undergoing a radical change in the DSM-5, and for good reason. Real people can't be pigeon-holed into categories. So if that's your reason for deleting those sections, then the whole page should be nuked. I think this page has a lot in common with the pages dealing with D&D alignment. In both cases, where using an oversimplified system created by a third party to categorize the attitudes of characters.
02:40:49 PM Dec 24th 2011
11:03:11 PM Dec 24th 2011
1. It's not 'trivia' if we're using a professional, up-to-date source. 2. The 'merit of the diagnosis' matters because it reflects conditions that real people experience. PAPD and SPD are not valid diagnoses because they're not real conditions. 3. Go read up on what's being changed for the DSM-v. It's not a radical change.
04:08:41 PM Dec 25th 2011
I have read it and they were planning on getting rid of the paranoid, schizoid, histrionic, narcissitic, and dependent personality disorders. Does this mean we should get rid of those once they do?
05:07:35 AM Dec 26th 2011
They're not deleting those as personality disorders, though there is debate on some of the ways the symptoms are characterized. Having said that: when the DSM-v comes out, yes, we should update this page.
07:35:44 PM Dec 29th 2011
Here is a cross walk showing how DSM-IV personality disorders would be diagnosed under the new system. Also, the way the criteria are setup for DSM-5 disorders is different from DSM-IV disorders. But I don't think any other article on mental disorders follows DSM criteria. I guess a useful notes page would be more appropriate if you wanted to cover that type of thing. On an OT note, is My Little Ponies supposed to be a childrens show?
10:33:55 AM Sep 19th 2011
Why is there a picture of Caprica Six from Battlestar Galactica in the section for Histrionic personality disorder? I've never seen her exhibit behaviour consistent with that disorder?
05:50:49 PM Sep 20th 2011
edited by jate88
edited by jate88
I got the picture from a snapshot of the music video ''High Maintenance Woman'' by Toby Keith. It might be the same actress but the characters are different. I linked the picture to the song on youtube to prevent any future confusion. Is that the right thing to do?
09:03:20 AM Sep 14th 2011