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Choombi
topic
11:21:59 AM Sep 8th 2014
edited by 46.121.109.5
i don't see why does this have to be a Death Trope, it's called "Asshole Victim", not "Asshole Murder Victim",shouldn't this also include victims of rape, robbery, physical or verbal abuse, blackmailing etc. who are assholes? i don't think it's reasonable to make a separate trope for asshole people who were victims to anything but murder. for a short example, if a women who is all around a bitch and objectively very very unlikable gets raped, i think it should count as this trope
Larkmarn
11:39:09 AM Sep 8th 2014
The point of the trope is that the victim has a lot of enemies, thus plenty of people with motive to commit the crime.

You seem to have this trope confused with Kick the Son of a Bitch, which is basically where an asshole gets their just desserts.
SeptimusHeap
12:55:35 PM Sep 8th 2014
Kick the Son of a Bitch is not "an asshole gets their just desserts.".

It's Kick the Dog (an act of evil that serves to remind us that the person committing it is in fact evil) applied to a person who we won't pity.
Choombi
02:11:06 PM Sep 9th 2014
well, interpreting the names of the tropes in the most straightforward way, Kick the Son of a Bitch should be basically Kick the Dog to an unlikeable character, and Asshole Victim should be as the name says, an asshole being the victim of a crime .
TiggersAreGreat
topic
03:37:58 PM Aug 6th 2013
I don't know about you guys, but I've seen a lot of examples of the this trope being used on Jerkass characters who are not dead at all. I'm afraid that qualifies as misuse.

Am I wrong here?
Natalie20
topic
07:26:25 AM Apr 18th 2013
what's the difference between asshole victim and kick that son of a bitch
Thecommander236
05:44:44 PM Apr 18th 2013
Asshole victim is a super trope of Kick the Son of a Bitch and Pay Evil unto Evil.
Craver357
topic
09:28:21 AM Jun 3rd 2012
Just wondering, would it counts as this trope if a villain kills another villain?
captainmarkle
12:12:54 PM Oct 13th 2012
It depends who the murder victim is, and who the murderer is. If it was Two-Face killing the Joker, then by all means. If The Joker murders Condiment King, then the Joker is the asshole.
Tifforo
topic
12:01:18 PM Nov 4th 2011
edited by Tifforo
Can we use real life examples that are not specific? For example:

  • Under the laws in much of the U.S., the difference between second-degree murder (an extremely serious offense) and voluntary manslaughter (an offense that is serious, but less so) is that, while both involve killing someone without premeditation, voluntary manslaughter means that it happened in a fit of rage arising from adequate cause. In other words, killers can get a reduced sentence if they were provoked into a sudden frenzy by an Asshole Victim.
    • In retrospect, this statement could be interpreted as making it sound as victims of voluntary manslaughter are assholes, which is a horribly insensitive thing to even accidentally imply. Sorry.
  • Under Iranian law, a person may kill another with a legal defense against criminal consequences if the victim was engaging in certain behaviors condemned by Iran's lawmakers, such as armed robbery, adultery, or insulting the prophet Mohamed.
captainmarkle
12:11:45 PM Oct 13th 2012
Could lead to a lot of Values Dissonance, particularly with the second example on several cases.
captainmarkle
topic
04:02:53 AM Sep 7th 2011
What is it if the hero kills them? Does this trope still come into effect?
marston
04:10:14 PM Feb 21st 2012
I don't think so. This trope is more or less about a Jerkass getting killed by either the Big bad, a monster, or another antagonist of some kind. If this trope was about Hero's killing bad guys, then we'd be here all day wouldn't we?
Craver357
04:39:52 PM Sep 29th 2012
That would go under Pay Evil unto Evil instead.
lrrose
topic
03:18:38 PM May 16th 2011
edited by lrrose
Now can we discuss the disputed Mass Effect 2 example? For the record, I argue that Jacob Taylor is not an example because he is not a Jerkass: he's far too bland a character to be one. His sexist romance dialog is due to poor writing, not a conscious effort by Bioware to make him a Jerkass

From the last edit reason by a troper restoring the contested example:

"Yes Jacob damned well IS an asshole. Maybe bioware didn't intend for him to be one, but they certainly made him one, however inadvertantly"

My response:

This is not a subjective trope (though I'm starting to think it should be). I'm pretty sure that Word of God trumps Death of the Author in non-subjective tropes.

thedragoness
05:01:08 PM May 16th 2011
Do you honestly, let's be realistic here, can you really say Shepard's romance dialogue was any better with a straight face? If this is the best reasoning we have to make Jacob an Asshole Victim then...wow, just wow, I can't use the words I'd like to to describe just how incredulous I am over that.
220.255.2.135
topic
05:10:10 AM Dec 9th 2010
I find it quite disturbing about the real life example regarding the Qing dynasty. It just reeks full of self personal opinion of his personal belief. Being invaded just cause they do not open to do unjust business? Fight back to kick your people out when you hook their people on opium? And that is Asshole victim just cause the government sucks? Way way way to go to upgrade the British and 8 country alliances who kill and rob and divide the country like free for all meat to the status of heroic.

The Qing may have many problems but like any government, which country tolerate insurgent? They are not asshole victims.
ARaihan
05:04:35 PM Apr 28th 2011
I agree vehemently with the above troper and I think that that part should be removed from the page. Real-Life examples of this sort are completely inappropriate and offensive.

The Qing brought it upon themselves because they would not open up to free trade? How does that justify in anyway what the Western countries (and Japan) did? If you want something I have and you think you have something I want, but I don't want to make the exchange for whatever reason, that makes it okay if you beat me up and take it? That makes me the Asshole Victim?

By the logic applied by the Troper in discussion, almost every war or invasion or cultural imperilaism can be excused because no country/sate/kingdom/whatever in history was all good.

To wit:

Nazi Germany invaded and conquered Austria, kicking off their campaign to conquer Europe. Austria was a fascist dictatorship at the time.

Spain demolished the Mesoamerican civilizations, by warfare, introduction of lethal diseases and cultural tyranny. None of those civilizations were exactly wonderful. They practiced ritual human sacrifice, rigid distinction between social and economic classes and engaged in frequent warfare with each other (this is obviously a broad generalization.)

America invaded Vietnam, ostensibly to 'save' it from Communism. I suppose Communist North Vietnam was the Asshole Victim? Maybe that's what the North Vietnamese thought of the South Vietnamese.

Vietnam later invaded Cambodia, then under the Khmer Rouge. Vietnam was not doing this for humanitarian reasons.

Hell, this is the exact reasoning used by Islamic extremists to justify terrorism. "The Americans are vile, blasphemous and destroying our way of life and our religion. We must kill them before they kill us."

I vote to remove that post. It does not belong.
Fighteer
moderator
10:55:48 AM May 16th 2011
Real Life examples purge. There's just no point.
Alpsman
11:32:45 PM Jun 4th 2011
What about that Saudi prince who murdered his manservant and will be hanged if he returns?
Peteman
topic
09:53:42 PM Oct 2nd 2010
Should we make an Asshole Plaintiff, for those instances where the victim is still alive?
Seanette
12:08:51 AM Oct 3rd 2010
Not a bad idea. We do need something for a case where the would-be victim survives and we really wish he/she hadn't.
DonaldthePotholer
09:29:32 PM Apr 27th 2011
Or a separate one when the act visited upon the Rear End is something other than death due to the nature of the (assumed) audience. (Especially if it's just as permanent.)
Hydronix
10:39:05 PM May 21st 2011
Likewise, what about a seperate trope where a person isn't just not killed, but is just beat up or something, and that's it.

Maybe not the same as Asshole Victim, like, at all, since there's an obvious difference. Is there a lighter version of this trope that's not about death, but it's the same situation?
Nobodymuch
topic
09:00:56 PM Mar 4th 2010
Agatha Christie actually had to write an explanation of why it was worthwhile to figure out who killed her horrible victims (to exonerate the innocent).
Aveline
01:50:48 PM Dec 14th 2011
To be fair, Poirot in particular had a second explanation: "I don't approve of murder." (Relatedly, the maxim that a person who had killed once would very often kill again.) Actually, one thing I love about most Agatha Christie novels is that you dislike the victim...and the murderer. Even when you dislike the victim enough that you're glad they're dead, the murderer/motive is such that you're STILL happy they're caught!
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