Knows-Many-Things
Are we really going to keep this page locked forever? We can't even talk about it?
Find the Light in the Dark
That guy who stays for the closing credits.
I have a problem, because the page that this discussion page is about is locked, which means I can't correct the word "asscaps" in the rules to "allcaps", like I did with other DMOS pages.
Are we human, or are we dancer? Hide / Show Replies
Lost in Space
<Moderator Note> Due to the inability of certain tropers to follow acceptable standards of polite debate, I've locked this article. Sorry, folks. ZP is apparently too controversial a topic to be left open for Complaining.
Edited by Fighteer "It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!" Hide / Show Replies
Probably for the best. Shouldn't the whole page be deleted then since nothing can be done with it?
Personally I say burn it all. Kill It with Fire. Then again if I had my way I would nuke the entire DMOS section and send anything worth saving to either Wall Banger or So Bad Its Horrible. But as it is, a locked article page is just worthless unless it was locked because it was perfect, which clearly the page is.
As do I, keep it around. We need something to counter all its fanboys on the wiki who try to shove in a reference to it in places it's not even relevant.
Plus as it is now it actually looks pretty good.
Yes, 'cos all fans are boys. *eyeroll* That said, might as well keep it, it's not doing any harm locked.
I cut up one dozen new men and you will die somewhat, again and again.
Emeriin: It's called jargon. Usually, the term can be applied bi-genderally. No need to criticize him.
On the main subject, I'd say that this isn't right or fair to the tropers who know how to behave. If ZP sets off alarm bells, chances are something else will set them off otherwise. So why bother limiting everyone else?
This is especially glaring since there's plenty more from him coming out that's worthy of being on this page. So I have to ask, why?
Okay Fighteer, it's been 8 years. I think it might be time to relieve the page lock. You can't just keep something locked forever because a few people went apeshit.
Find the Light in the Dark
What killed it was me was Valkyria Chronicles. I figured, at least he'd appreciate the fact that the main character wasn't a teenager. Nope! He somehow thought Welkin was, despite just about every character in the opening referencing the fact that Welkin just finished college. If he can't even pay that much attention, why should I care what he has to say?
His Dead Space 3 review. Do you like the game or not?!
Hide / Show Replies
It isn't possible for a reviewer to have a mixed opinion?
What's precedent ever done for us?
I don't mean it as a mixed opinion, but he goes on about negatives as he does, never really touches on the positives and doesn't give a final conclusion. You could say he doesn't like it, but it's very ambiguous. It's basically him saying "This is what I dislike" and that's it.
Edited by 70.33.253.42
Basically canon
Seeing quite a bit of italics that need to be de-italicized (or whatever the term for that is).
pearlina brainrot affects millions of people worldwide. if you or a loved one are suffering from pearlina brainrot, call 1-800-GAY-NERDS
World Of Warcraft Review Calling the "Grats" to an award thing rude. Hey, if it's a new guy, he actually just did something that probably took some time, You say grats because it's Common freaking courtesy, Common courtesy being that if you got an achievement for winning a lottery you didn't freaking enter he gets grats for his minimal effort because that beats NO EFFORT. Did you camp out waiting for deathwing to come raze your face? NO! You got lucky and think it's more than someone getting to level 10 and unlocking specializations? Congratu-F***ing-Lations you have an elitism problem!
Hide / Show Replies
I'd like to add Halo 4. The way yahtzee complains about how everything looks "Too clean and too bright." ARE.YOU.KIDDING.ME. Yahtzee for years now you've hated on games that overused the brown spectrum, and here comes Halo 4 with some really pretty and colorful artwork to boot and your going to fault it for that? Sorry, no you are now coming off as contrarian so you can keep your massive halo hatedom following of people that hate Halo.
"So long as mankind exists, there will always be battles."
What if there's a new DMOS that legitimately trumps any included on this page? Hint: I refer to Kid Icarus: Uprising.
Edited by jailbird408 Hide / Show Replies
A) Its trumping of the others is an opinion rather than fact, B) Write up the entry you want to add properly and take the edit request to this thread
.
Marioking98341
uhh...if it's locked, than why can I still post here?
Hide / Show Replies
^Locks don't affect the discussion page.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Only the work/trope page itself is locked; discussion pages are safe.
Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.
Okay seriously, enough is enough. I've actually taken the liberty to read through the "examples" listed in this trope and really so many of them reek of He Panned It So He Sucks, it's not even funny.
I mean seriously, The Brutal Legend Example is Yahtzee putting emphasis on the collecting aspect. Seriously? This page has reached the point where whenever you disagree with him, it's automatically a dethroning moment of suck. DMOS is suppose to be the the most shining example(s) when the show is at its lowest. A lot of these or just little complaints come from disagreeing with the guy.
Hide / Show Replies
The second paragraph was what I touched upon but yeah, I see your point.
Let's try removing half the whiny WAAH DISAGREEMENT-THEREFORE-DMOS crap and if it keeps up, just nuke the page and be done.
Or you could just show a disclaimer at the top saying "Just because you disagree with Yahtzee, does NOT mean it constitutes as a DMOS". Granted we might already have that, but there are times when they need to be told twice.
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
I went ahead and took the liberty of making a go at it. Left in examples that were explained why the moment would be considered a DMOS and erased all the He Panned It, Now He Sucks! nonsense. Of course any moment now I'll be accused of being a Yahtzee defender.
Its inevitable, but yeah this page REALLY needed a kick up the arse. Of course there's going to be serious fallout about this.
Now if someone could be so kind as to do this with thepage on TGWTG and maybe the other reviewer bits, all will be right with the wiki
Edited by MightyKombat I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
If it happens to go into an edit war, admins will probably side with the one trying to clean up the page.
You got some dirt on you. Here's some more!
Which will at least make sense.
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
Unfortunately it seems we're not gonna be allowed to cut down on the petty disagreement parts. Maybe I can see why but it will be a cold day in hell before anyone lets this just become "WAAAAH HOW DARE YAHTZEE HAVE HIS OWN OPINION!". If tha thappens its gonna get put on the cut list and likely nuked.
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
Well I put my two cents in, that's all I can do. Definitely saw this backlash coming when I did it, but it definitely needed to be brought up to discussion because it was getting out of hand. Having DMOS pages in the first place are just asking for trouble, especially for professional reviewers.
R Eally its only a matter of time before someone puts this or something similar on that page:
- For me the Dethroning Moment of Suck was when he got his own opinion! How dare he not have the exact same opinion as us!
Wow, one poster in that thread actually resorted to personal attacks.
You got some dirt on you. Here's some more!
Ahahaha, how cute of you Devour. It's the pretentious shrieking that goes on I get tired with, not the people themselves. Don't paint yourself as a victim.
DAMNIT YAHTZEE WHY MUST YOU BE SUCH A DIVISIVE FIGURE?!?
Blue Pacific, signing off...
Is the Yahtzee fan club going to keep editing this page or what?
Hide / Show Replies
Just double-checked the comment of yours that was deleted in fact, and like pointed out above it misses out any context. He complains about those exact things you whine he missed out on - at least put some effort into the spirit of the page dude, c'mon.
Sorry that people don't worship Yahtzee like you do, but the entire point of a page like this is that it's subjective.
Though I am starting to feel that this page was an even worse idea to get the Yahtzee Wars under control.
Subjective doesn't include shit I made up, Rebo. Drop the whining about the things he apparently didn't complain about - when he clearly does if you pay the attention to the review - and there would be no issue.
If you want to be a shining example of Hatedumb, fine, just be one that at least gets basic facts right.
Well it's good thing you're policing the page to ensure that your hero is given a proper welcome.
We're not trying to give him a welcome, we're trying to make sure things are right on this page. Not everyone who deletes entries on this page is a fan of Yahtzee you know. I'm not even a fan of the guy!
Edited by Marioguy128 You got some dirt on you. Here's some more!
Exactly. Drop the martyr bullshit. It's nothing to do with my opinion of Yahtzee, it's everything to do with your trolling.
Look, can we just agree that there are SOME valid points on this page? Also, he isn't trolling. Pretty sure he's entirely serious/passive agressive.
Blue Pacific, signing off...
This guy must have so many fan boys considering how many justifying edits I am seeing on this page.
Hide / Show Replies
It's a popular show, and it's lasted nearly three years. Goes without saying someone has to like him. I know fanboy isn't a synonym for "fan", but well... just be glad it's not the type of Yahtzee fanboy that parrots his opinions word-for-word like it's an incontestable fact.
A lot of the moments have a really shitty basis to them, ignoring context, or rty to deconstruct off-handed jokes. It's natural Hatedumb will be called out for that.
Apparently some people don't realize Mean Character, Nice Actor is in full effect here treating everything Yahtzee says as his actual opinion, when some of it is actually exaggerated. He does call himself a professional troll. Maybe a warning adjustment is needed.
Edited by Marioguy128 You got some dirt on you. Here's some more!
That's like saying Homer Simpson's justified for being a Jerkass in later episodes because the people who wrote those episodes are actually quite sweet.
Edited by 94.9.139.139
I meant people shouldn't take him too seriously, a.k.a. Reviews Are the Gospel. He calls himself a professional troll for crying out loud!
You got some dirt on you. Here's some more!
He more frequently calls himself a critic though, and the professional troll thing came up in the context of Hatedumb.
Yes but he also says things like "as a well respected and honest critic SHUT UP I AM i can say definitively this game sucks donkey balls" he jokes a lot about how he is not the gospel.
I dunno if his xenophobic-style hatings toward America are trolling, though. Especially when he called America "that shithole across the ocean" in one of his Extra Punctuation columns, which generally reflect his more moderate side.
"I felt cheated and disappointed, more so than being offended as a life long Nintendo fan. "
Gaaaaaaaaaah. Sorry, I find comments like this absolutely hilarious for some reason.
Hide / Show Replies
You're oh so very mature, Acritdy. What are you anyways, Yahtzee's sentinel, prowling the dethroning moment page to ensure as many posts as possible are deleted?
Having read the rest of this page, it's either that or it's the man himself.
For this troper, it was the beginning of his Black Ops review. After bitching about how "worthless" America was in his Splinter Cell: Conviction review, Yahtzee then used the first few minutes of his Call of Duty: Black Ops review to compare America to Twitards because of all of the jingoistic war games based on a hypothetical America-being-invaded-by-Russia scenario. He makes a statement, seemingly in jest, that America needs another major war due to the fact that these games exist, seemingly forgetting that if America were to go to war and suffer devastation then we'd all have a rather pleasant world economy collapse due to the fact that America's got one of the biggest hands in the pot. Also, he notes how America isn't really "prime real estate" and not worth conquering. What. You live in AUSTRALIA, Yahtzee. You know what Australia has? Awesome beaches and kangaroos. The rest is a MASSIVE DESERT with a bit of rainforest sprinkled in for flavor. You know what America has? Highly fertile farmlands and some awesome mountain ranges. Once again, Yahtzee, just because America doesn't embrace the latest form of Universal Healthcare does NOT invalidate its worth as a country!
Shouldn't that be deleted from the DMOS page? because this guy is saying that Yahtzee says that America is inferior country, while at the same time saying basically Australia only has kangaroos and beaches and the rest is nothing. I don't really watch ZP and I'm aware that Yahtzee does make fun of America, and I don't find it funny, but for people who actually like it seems played for laughs. That entrie is basically saying " Yahtzee made fun of America, America is awesome But Yahtzee lives in Australia and Australia is nothing compared to America therefore DMOS". A bit hypocrital I think.
Hide / Show Replies
That's...not what they said. They were simply refuting how America really is prime real estate, when compared to Australia. I don't see any nationalism there.
Its still rather hipocritical especially because Yahtzee makes a lot of fun of Australia and its "crotchety old man government". That and he is not Australian he is a british person who lives in Australia but grew up in Britain.
Wow, this entire page is fanboys complaining because Yahtzee doesn't wank to their favorite game.
Hide / Show Replies
Try reading it over; the majority of complaints are when Yahtzee doesn't even TRY to do a coherent review (Monster Hunter Tri, FF13, SSBB), insults his own fans or America, writes a game off without even trying it, or mocks Mario, Sonic or The Wii For the Evulz.
Edited by Raxis
That's the entire point of him though. I don't really think he's trying to make real reviews, just comedy. They're more of parody pieces if anything, I'd say.
As shown by almost every other comedic reviewer, the two AREN'T mutually exclusive, not even when your typical episode is four or five minutes long.
Edited by OldManHoOh
They aren't, but I'd say Zero Punctuation falls pretty close to mostly comedy and barely review.
The problem is he still calls himself a critique, so he needs to try and actually take that job seriously.
The Escapist even calls it such; Zero Punctuation is The Escapist's groundbreaking video review series starring Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw.
If he's doing a comedy show rather than a review show, it needs to be specific, or else people will take his word seriously when he doesn't mean to be taken seriously.
No, people are just over-sensitive twats about it. Just because they're too defensive about their precious video gamez doesn't devalue Yahtzee's comments about them. I mean christ, we get people huffing and puffing in a massive pissy fit over singular jokes for christ sake.
Try reading the posts you so joyously delete, Acritdy; not all of the complaints here are against Yahtzee railing against certain games. There's also examples against his blatant hate of America and the misogyny he displays in a few videos.
And Yahtzee's comments don't need us to devaluate them; they do that on their own a lot of the time.
I do read the posts, try reading the guidelines for DMOS. It is not an excuse for pedantic fanboys to post large rants about how awful and Yahtzee is, desperately trying to foil everyone their tirade counts as a moment. People are nitpicking and raving across enormous paragraphs, not choosing one section and sticking with it.
It's pathetic.
Raxis
Cut it out Acritdy, you're not getting anywhere with the edit war with Old Man Ho Oh. If you wanna stop him, first point out the rule in question, because I myself am not aware of the most recent entry rule either.
Hide / Show Replies
Problem is solved.
Do you know what people want the most? Something somebody else has.
"And remember you're only allowed one moment, so if you've got more than one, than decide which was the worst. Please do not post examples simply because you were offended by that particular moment. "
Thanks for playing, guys.
Or has DMOS suddenly become a stomping ground for whatever aspect of a series irritates them, rather than being used for one example and one alone? I see no justifiable reason why someone should be allowed to get away with such a petty bending of the rules. If they're going to blow their load over something which isn't as Dethroning as they thought? Tough. Shouldn't have used it so flippantly in the first place.
Edited by Acritdy
People are allowed to change their entry if they decide that something other than what they listed is what they believe to be the show's alltime low. :/
Shamelessly plugging my comics, Oh yes.
I just think it's an absolutely pathetic loophole.
This is the show's worst moment! No, this is! Wait, I'll change it again! Rar! This show is the worst!
I'd add this to the page if I was allowed
- TARINunit9: This entire page. Not because you don't have valid opinions (which you actually don't, as I will explain), but because you're taking things grossly out of context, misinterpreting metaphors, and (most importantly) adding subtext that was never there (and since you're basing your opinions on this, said opinions are factually incorrect).
This whole "WE MUST DELETE THE ENTIRE PAGE" fiasco is getting out of hand. The page needs to be reverted to before it all got deleted and someone set up a new rules to justify their edits.
It's getting ridiculous, ladies.
Hide / Show Replies
There aren't 'new rules'. There were simply ones that weren't being respected beforehand, as stated by fast eddie himself.
Geomancer
Great now people are making a huge deal out of Yahtzee contradicting himself sometimes. Should anything be done about this?
You got some dirt on you. Here's some more! Hide / Show Replies
Simple; weed 'em out whenever you find 'em. It's natter, after all.
Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.
The contradiction isn't even as bad as people make it out to be. His interest in Half-Life has always been the story, not the gameplay mechanics. Bwah.
Jesus, reading over the DMOS pages is really deppressing. People are horribly, horribly sensitive.
@Komodin: we can't. Some dick (possibly FastEddie himself - I know he has issues with ZP) has explicitly put "don't remove examples from this page unless they're genuinely untrue" at the top of this page, which basically means the page is a free license to Yahtzee-bash. It probably needs cutlisting and rebooting.
And? And? And? And? AND?
You know, I'm REALLY beginning to think that some of the entries here are going beyond simple He Panned It, Now He Sucks! mentality, as apparently now its an outlet to say "WAAAAH HE MADE AN OPINION I DON'T AGREE WITH THEREFORE DMOS!!", in regards to that kid who complained about Yahtzee liking the Werehog bits of Sonic Unleashed on the Zero Punctuation page. We've really got to stamp out on this sort of fanboy crying and restore this page to what it is meant to be: Specific moments that were downright stupid, offensive or absolute crap.
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know Hide / Show Replies
Word, word, a thousand times word. I can't find a single thing on this page that's an actual DMOS and not just either "this review gives the impression of being misinformed", "this troper disapproves of anyone disliking Nintendo" or ""Stop Having Fun" Guys".
I even had an inkling that the Smash Bros review was more out of how Yahtzee was annoyed that so many people kept bothering to do it that he pretty much deliberately botched it up as a way of showing that they had gotten on his nerves as well as saying "There. I've reviewed the bloody thing. Now shut the fuck up".
As far as this page goes we need a serious look over to purge anything that might be just plain "WAAAH DIFFERENT OPINIONS". I mean, slapping him on here just because he liked the Werehog bits on Sonic Unleashed? What next, devoting a gigantic paragraph to whining about how the Nostalgia Critic liked Robocop 2 and you didn't, therefore DMOS?
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
In the past two months, I think there have been at least three petty strawmans posted showing that the people who like Yahtzee are just as obnoxious. (Note: I'm 94.9.139.139, and I definitely don't want all THAT again)
Edited by 94.9.179.3
Man, I swear this page has become "I disagree therefore DMOS!!!!!".
Hide / Show Replies
I'm kinda getting that vibe myself. Someone REALLY needs to make a note at the top of the page that this isn't a place to declare He Panned It, Now He Sucks!
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
It appears Marioguy has put a disclaimer at the top warning against it. Good idea that.
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
I understand that DMOS is naturally a YMMV page, but half of the examples really sound like they should belong in the Just Bug Me page instead. There really should be a more specific criteria on what constitutes a Dethroning moment of Suck because nearly every single review has ended up listed on this page.
Edited by 94.9.139.139 Hide / Show Replies
There has been at least 100 reviews since 2007. Stop exaggerating. I counted 14 reviews mentioned. Oh, and I still stand by Just Bugs Me being for Fridge Logic, rather than complaining about the worst of the worst.
Edited by 94.9.139.139
While I agree it doesn't look like that many reviews, in the last 4 or 5 weeks I've seen every video of his get a spot on DMOS within about 24 hours of going online, and fairly often it does seem people are just looking for something to complain about eg several people have complained that he didn't play Monster Hunter Tri and FF for long enough when he went out of his way to explain a game that takes too long to get into will be panned for it! Not necessarily professional and I know DMOS is all about YMMV but he did give a somewhat valid reason, so yeah these probably should go on Just Bugs Me...
Ever think people take Yahtzee a tad too seriously?
Yet it's the Hatedumb flying off over the handle over his jokes and reviews. Durp durp.
I mean jesus, I've just been looking at the other pages - you spend more time actively accusing everyone of sucking up to him than you do anything else with the pages. If you're going to whinge like this be consistent.
With your shrieking about people who take him too seriously. Frankly, someone who gets up their own arse about jokes is in a worse position than someone who gets self-righteous about the DMOS page.
...I didn't do any of those? In fact, regardless of my thoughts about ZP, I haven't added a single Moment to this list. What I meant about "taking too seriously" was in general, not about this page or the discussion, i.e. the Reviews Are the Gospel mindset. I wasn't making snide remarks or outright insulting people.
Edited by 94.9.139.139
Yet it's been your IP address running around shrieking about people taking him too seriously, so hurf hurf. Sorry not everyone's blessed with your high level of double standards.
Links please. I may have said something along those lines, but not fucking shrieking.
And you have not elaborated what the double standard is of. This may be a generalisation but I don't give a rat's arse whether or not people like stuff I don't.
Edited by 94.9.139.139
Accusing everyone of taking him too seriously. Frankly if you don't get why that's double standards, then the durp durp is more than adequate.
I quote: "People who suck up to him take him too seriously, really." That neither refers to every fan, nor everyone. Do you have a personal dictionary definition of Double Standard or something? It has to refer to two things, hence double standard.
Edited by 94.9.139.139
Nope, just going by how quick and zealously you edit out any corrections or the like from the ZP pages. People who suck up take him too seriously, yet here you are dedicating swathes of time making sure nothing but gnashing and frothing negativity is allowed to run rampant. Ho-hum. I Ps are revealing things.
Define "corrections and the like". On the DMOS page, there is a clear rule against "no defending moments". If the events weren't what happened, then fix it. If you disagree, leave it. My mass cut of the Just Bugs Me page was due to it being a mess of Natter that wasn't about the show itself. I will admit to a disproportionate amount of cutting and trimming of Yahtzee-related examples as of late, in part due to them not fitting. I won't deny being a bit pissy about examples pertaining to him in recent weeks, but please, point out specific examples that are "quick and zealous" "shrieking". I've got no idea what made you think I want negativity to run rampant! I don't want to dig a deeper hole than I'm already in, but if I wanted said gnashing and frothing, wouldn't I be in support of Yahtzee?
Edited by 94.9.139.139
If this guy wants negativity to run rampant, why were a lot potential natter causing and incorrect examples deleted? And some of the examples that used to be on this page were pretty bad.
You got some dirt on you. Here's some more!
TV Tropes' Sonic WikiCurator
Am I the only one who thinks this page seriously needs a cleanup? I'm seeing more justifying edits and natter than "moments of suckage", and I'm not even a big fan of Zero Punctuation. I'd do it myself, but I don't even know where to begin with this one.
Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows. Hide / Show Replies
Look at Paradoxic's bit at the top. It used to be even worse, don't worry. The sad thing is, most of that above natter was from two moments.
And a lot of it is thankfully cut within a day.
Well I'm handling that. The sheer amount of natter suprises me.
You got some dirt on you. Here's some more!
I just took a look at the history page, and Marioguy, go get yourself an internet cookie on me for cleaning this mess up.
Looks like all the cleanup I did shrinked the page considerably. Should we put it back on the Web Original page?
You got some dirt on you. Here's some more!
I would like to suggest we just leave the page and not put it back on "Web Original".
Looking at one of the deleted comments, in my opinion, if his stance changed that much, he wouldn't even be making Zero Punctuation any more.
Hide / Show Replies
The comment was about games the playerbase harps on about, not games Yahtzee chooses to review.
The Indecisive One
Deleted text that was still valid:
- Review of Final Fantasy XIII. I'm fine with most of his review, because for someone who has made it clear that he hates JRP Gs, his criticisms are mostly fair and are the general criticms made by a lot of people. The D Mo S for me is towards the end when he disses the graphics for being garish. He always applauds a game when it averts Realis Brown, but because it's FFXIII, now it being colourful is suddenly "garish" and it's a bad thing. His criticism isn't even consistent with his general opinions and is just blatant hating-just-to-hate.
- Holy shit, Yahtzee doesn't like extremes. How about that.
AAAAA NATTER:
- The claims are not only ridiculous, but also contradicting each other. He also mentioned not being able to beat someone with a lot more practice than you - which is directly contradictory to his claim that you win by button-mashing. Not to mention that they deliberately added a random tripping mechanic, much to the wrath of tournament players, just to to make the matches "looser".
- Not to mention the part where he blatantly mentions that he didn't read the manual...and then complains about not being able to understand the controls. I'm sorry, what?
- He does the exact same thing in his Mass Effect review. Sure, the manual for that game may not be Moderen Warfare/Dead Space-short, but it's no Oblivion manual (which was still definitely worth a read regardless of size or experience with the series).
- You have to feel for the poor sap. It's not the kind of game he enjoys, so he couldn't do one of his rare positive reviews. And it's a very popular game that fans demand he review. So he was stuck trying to bash a game that doesn't really have any genuine obvious flaws other than "I personally don't like it" (and the HUD blocking the action bit, which was pretty much fixed for Brawl anyway). That said he should have focused on The Computer Is a Cheating Bastard, and he could have filled time by having a moment of silence while the game loads from the Masterpieces back to the main game (which is a terrible load).
- Which is why this troper felt he should never have even done the review. There are MANY problems with that game. Most of which he missed. I never understood why everyone wanted him to review the game as his previous reviews showed a complete disdain to anything multiplayer.
- And he said that he didn't want to review it too. It was like asking to be punched and then complaining about it. You asked for it, you take it.
- This troper would call the Super Smash Bros/Mailbag Showdown reviews the Dethroning Moment of Suck as well, largely because that was when the Fan Haters and the Hatedom truly established themselves.
- For evidence, see slightly above.
- ...I'm sorry, original poster, but...you think a franchise started being bad because...people started hating it? WHAT?
- He was talking about the fanbase having a Crowning Moment of Suck. No, he doesn't fail logic forever.
- He fails grammar forever, though. I didn't understand a word of that.
- The claims are not only ridiculous, but also contradicting each other. He also mentioned not being able to beat someone with a lot more practice than you - which is directly contradictory to his claim that you win by button-mashing. Not to mention that they deliberately added a random tripping mechanic, much to the wrath of tournament players, just to to make the matches "looser".
- His Sonic Unleashed review crossed the line from "point out the game's flaws in a humorous if rather negative manner" to "bash anything and everything remotely related to the game in a manner that makes it sound like we're talking about BROTRR". The fact that he spent less time talking about the game itself and more about his personal beefs with the series in general doesn't help much, nor does the fact that it was the first Sonic game in years to be actually pretty good (In my opinion, anyway.) and definitely did not deserve that.
- This troper thinks the Dethroning Moment for ZP is usually the moment one sees a review of a game they've actually played. When you know nothing about the game, it's "Haha, that sucks, why would they do that?" But when you actually know just how wrong he is (Not being able to tell friend from foe in Mass Effect? You have two allies, and enemies have big red crosshairs over them. And anything that charges at you becomes shotgun fodder.) you can't take him seriously anymore.
- What were you doing taking him seriously in the first place?
- I think they were getting at something along the lines of "Why should I even listen to you? You're just spewing random swear-words loosely relating to video games now." seriously. It's that his humour seems to be based on blatant lying or not doing research (for a review) at times, just to get a laugh. ...I need to go outside.
- From what I can see, every time he does try to properly review a game (as opposed to just making loose jokes), he gets lots of Fan Dumb telling him that he's stopped being funny.
- For me, the dethroning also occurred around the Smash Bros. review, but only because it became apparent that, for some reason, Yahtzee moved away from actual analysis and more towards attacking anything he did not like for any arbitrary reason. E.g. his Mad World review where he outright goes out of his way to say that the Wii is a bad console made for idiots. Perhaps he is being forced to review games he has no interest in, but he also is completely apologetic towards easily hate-able games such as Prince of Persia (he, in fact, actually sets out to justify some of the game's flaws).
- I could tolerate the SSBB review (it was still vaguely funny, and moronic railing against "button masher games" isn't really new). I could probably have tolerated his sequel-phobic suggestion of a world where sequels were banned (answer: no, the amount of crap would stay the same, but with fewer franchise-beloved characters), but eh. I drew the line at the Wii Sucks, Is For Losers, and No Gaming Company Should Make Anything but Shovelware For It review (which had some review on Mad World thrown in at the end).
- Same here. I cannot even make it through any of his reviews on Wii games because I know 90% of it is him acting like every other console fanboy with a microphone. I know that there is always bias even among professional reviewers but when he's basically saying that a game will always suck just because of what console it's on, well then he's just a fanboy with a paycheck.
- One thing that bugs me most about his Wii bashing is how out-of-the-blue it was...after giving largely positive reviews to Super Mario Galaxy, Zack and Wiki, Super Paper Mario and No More Heroes, he's just suddenly decided the console is garbage. The other thing that bugs me is how it seems to have extended to a hatred of Nintendo as a whole, when he stated in an earlier review that certain things about Nintendo may annoy him, but a world without them would be a sad one.
- Even better, now his hate has become so transparent he seeks to insert it where it doesn't belong. The 2009 awards show is a good example. He talks about how Natal is most likely an innovation that isn't going to live up to expectation...by spending 75% of that part of the video talking about the Wii again. Sure he starts out positive pointing out how motion controls need a sense of feedback but then he decides he needs to go kick Nintendo about some more, not that they need Internet White-Knighting from anybody given how successful they've been in the face of Yahtzee's continuously shriller pleas to get people to stop making games for their consoles.
- One thing that bugs me most about his Wii bashing is how out-of-the-blue it was...after giving largely positive reviews to Super Mario Galaxy, Zack and Wiki, Super Paper Mario and No More Heroes, he's just suddenly decided the console is garbage. The other thing that bugs me is how it seems to have extended to a hatred of Nintendo as a whole, when he stated in an earlier review that certain things about Nintendo may annoy him, but a world without them would be a sad one.
- The sequel thing bugged me to no end. The reason that video games get sequels is because the first one sold well enough to justify the sequel. All that banning sequels would end up doing is depriving gamers the chance to experience more of what they really enjoyed. Not every game has to be "ZOMG this is the most original thing EVAR!!!11!1!", it just has to be fun. There's nothing wrong with the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mindset.
- The really ironic part is that despite that fact that he claims to hate sequals, his favorite games(that he constantlly remind us in other reviews) are Slient Hill 2, Half-Life 2, Saints Row 2 and Spiderman 2. All four of them being sequels.
- Liverpool: 3
- He admits this in his Extra Punctuation column, and in fact explains both. He doesn't hate the Wii, he hates that people take it seriously; the Wii is meant to be a platform for new stuff, not the same old grungy shooters, and he hates it when people think that a new system is just a graphical upgrade for old games. And as for the sequel thing: Sequels should only be made by people who hated the original. Half-Life 2 gets a pass because it's more a continuation than a sequel, Saints Row 2 is fun and lighthearted whereas the first one was a GTA clone, Silent Hill 2 was made by a team who hated the limits that were placed on the first one, and Spiderman 2... well, exception that proves the rule.
- No innovation just a graphical update? Follow the Leader grungy shooters... This applies even more to the PS3 and Xbox 360's FPSs, no offence to either, but fuck! Also, the number of sequels better than the original is not just those 4 games, for starters. God... [1]
- First off, Saints Row 2 is a sequel because it continues the story, is set in the same area, and has many of the same characters. Half-Life 2 is a sequel for most of the same reasons. So it's obvious you're reaching on those. But most importantly, if sequels should only be made by people that hate the original, then clearly Yahtzee either hates every single game he's ever made in the Chzo Mythos and 1213 series, or he's just a gigantic hypocrite.
- Link to the article where he discusses the Wii? First off, whats wrong with developers and players liking the Wii and accepting it as a serious game console. Second, how can someone who opens a review with "Why will no one believe me when I tell them the Wii is a lump of owl pellets? I'm starting to feel like Charlton Heston at the end of Soylent Green running around yelling 'The Wii is made of poo, stop making games for it!'. It would be wonderfully convenient to just abandon one game console as the casual kiddy platform." and not at least give the impression he hates the console he is talking about? Link can be found here
- Sequels should only be made people who hated the- Oh god... Even if that is a somewhat legitimate explanation, it still doesn't make sense! People who hated the original? That's like saying that the people who make Super Mario Bros hate the very first installment, which they just don't. In fact, if you hate the original, what's even the point of wanting to even create a sequel? It. Doesn't. Add. Up.
- Your. Argument. Is. Flawed. SMB analogy aside, Yahtzee's argument is that critics of games are better able to see and address the flaws of said games, whereas fans typically only ever see the good. Sequels made by critics would fix the original's problems instead of either rehashing the original or ignoring the problems outright like fans would.
- Because when a sequel is made by people who loved the original, you get more of the same. The right word isnt hate, more like disagreed with or the kind of hate that fans give to their beloved media as they still love it. Developers who "hate" the original make sequels that are different or better, or something like that.
- No one is suggesting that. Different sort of critic.
- Why would critics, people who write articles about game's good points and bad points and very often have very little game designing experience, be better at developing a sequel compared to a team that developed the original but listened to constructive criticism?
- Yahztee, being a game critic, figures that game critics are omni-disciplinary GODS and are obviously good at everything, especially game design. On a more serious note, actual programmers/game designers who hated the original will not likely create a product which will satisfy its existing fan base, and therefore fare poorly financially, even if it is a critical success by editing out the 'flaws' of the original - which, if the sequel was truly designed by those who hated the original, was probably less 'flaw' and more 'essential character'. Therefore, the suggestion that sequels be designed by those who hated the original is logically flawed, at the very least from a business perspective - which is an important one, in case you weren't sure. To be fair, he probably could have stated it better though.
- A team that loved the original to bits and wants to make The Same But More is going to make a worse game than a team that thought the original was all right but would have been very improved with some tighter pacing, a more interesting combat system and better character motivations, and could have done without That One Sidequest or that Scrappy Mechanic. A team that absolutely hated the original wouldn't bother working on a sequel- clearly, he was being over-the-top about it. Or is my logic flawed?
- You still haven't explained why a team that listens to constructive criticism and developers the sequel based off that is going to make a better game than those who hate the game in it's entirety.
- Read. They wouldn't make it if they hated the whole thing. But if they saw a good concept marred by flaws, they'd get rid of the flaws. They'd get rid of all of the flaws they could. A team that liked the original might get rid of a few flaws, but they wouldn't get rid of all of them- they might alienate the fans.
- My biggest argument in all this is why would a team, that knows the ins and outs of the engine and design and carry on with a sequel , be obsessive, obtrusive fanboys that "loved the series to bits" and apparently are blind to all flaws? They'd definitely be proud of their work, considering they made the fucking thing, but that's not the same kind of "loving it to bits".
- You all seem to have forgotten that that rant about sequels was written about a sequel for an extremely popular, but over 10 year old game. A sequel with ALL the same developers is obviously different to a sequel made by people who played the game as children. Can you imagine if a game like Half-Life 2 was made today, by a development team wearing such heavy Nostalgia Goggles that every other piece of dialouge was a Shout-Out to the first game?
- You mean to say that there weren't shout outs strewn about in Half-Life 2? Yeah, [2] but still. And I can't find which video the rant was from. What was this over 10 year old game again? The quote that's given on the Sequelitis page claims that the world would be better and "more creative" without sequels full stop.
- My biggest argument in all this is why would a team, that knows the ins and outs of the engine and design and carry on with a sequel , be obsessive, obtrusive fanboys that "loved the series to bits" and apparently are blind to all flaws? They'd definitely be proud of their work, considering they made the fucking thing, but that's not the same kind of "loving it to bits".
- Same here. I cannot even make it through any of his reviews on Wii games because I know 90% of it is him acting like every other console fanboy with a microphone. I know that there is always bias even among professional reviewers but when he's basically saying that a game will always suck just because of what console it's on, well then he's just a fanboy with a paycheck.
Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: DMOS, people not choosing one moment.
, started by Acritdy on Nov 25th 2010 at 6:25:18 AM
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman