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If you spot an article that has more natter than one person can handle without losing their lunch, report it here.

Fix as much as you can bear to, then call on us for help. wink

Edited by wingedcatgirl on Feb 25th 2024 at 10:26:27 AM

jameygamer Since: May, 2014
#1426: Mar 11th 2017 at 10:38:39 PM

I think I spotted natter on Characters.Cinderella, under Lady Tremaine's Lazy Bum example.

Gosicrystal Since: Jun, 2016 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
#1427: Mar 26th 2017 at 9:43:45 AM

There's a huge Thread Mode in VideoGame.Valkyrie Profile, under Sadly Mythtaken. It's so dense, I'm afraid only people who know about the work will be able to distinguish what's good info and what's junk.

WaterBlap Blapper of Water Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
#1428: Mar 26th 2017 at 9:47:58 AM

[up] I'll take a crack at it from the perspective of the original myths.

EDIT: Done. Added context where people left it out due to trying to converse on the page. I couldn't save the Bloodbane-Jormungandr example because I don't know anything about this Bloodbane character.

    The Example 
  • Sadly Mythtaken: The game is nominally based on Norse Mythology.
    • The game confuses the Jotuns, a race of giants, with the Vanir, a group of gods and goddesses heavily associated with nature.
      • The myth of Ragnarok concerns a battle between the gods and the Jotuns. In other words, it is between the Aesir and Vanir against the Jotuns. The Aesir and Vanir waged war in the myths, but made peace long before Ragnarok.
      • The Vanir's stronghold in the B ending is called "Jotunheim," while in the myths they're abode is Vanaheim.
      • The character design of most of the Vanir makes them seem to be "giants" (e.g. they are much taller than the main character).
      • Freya, in the lead-up to the A ending, calls their enemies "giants."
    • Description for the Citadel of Flame states that Surt is the lord of Muspelheim (trans. "realm of fire") and that he has a volcano named for him, and in the myths, he is a fire giant. In the game, however, his stronghold is made of ice.
    • Odin has one eye in the myths due to trading his other eye for wisdom. In the game, he has two eyes.
    • Frey is a fertility god in the myths — and as such, phallic imagery is heavily associated with him. However, in the game, Frey is a woman.
    • In the myths, Mimir was killed in the Aesir-Vanir war, and he was a man. In the game, he is still alive and a woman.
    • The game conflates the valkyries and the Norn.
      • There could be either nine exactly or any number of valkyries — and there were only three Norn — in the myths. There are only three valkyries in this game.
      • Neither the valkyries nor the Norn share a body in the myths, though the Norns notably work together when it comes to fate. In this game, the valkyries share one body and rule over fate itself.

    Cut portions 
  • The first wince-worthy moment comes about halfway into the introduction, when the writer fails to have researched which Norse gods are Aesir and which are Vanir. Odin (an Aesir) is telling Lenneth Valkyrie (the player character, who works for Odin) and Freya (your main point of contact among the gods) how war with the Vanir appears to be inevitable — but Freya is a Vanir in the original myths!
  • Niflheim is treated as the absolute lowest root of Yggdrasil (for a simpler comparison, the equivalent to the Judeo-Christian Hell) and as the land of the dead in the game. In the actual mythos, the realm of Hel is the actual land of the dead and the absolute lowest branch. Sources vary on Niflheim's position on the tree; some have it in the middle branches along with Midgard, while some put it on the lower branches with Hel and Svartalfheim (the land of dwarves). Similarly, Jotunheim, the land of giants, also is put on the middle or low branches in various sources.
  • Some of the names were misspelled (which often happened in several old games), while others were just changed without knowing the wiser. For example, Bloodbane was clearly meant to be Jormungand, the dragon who fought against Thor in the original myth, and the Demon Sword Levantine was a possible misspell of the Lævateinn, a real mythological weapon in Norse Mythology, said to be capable of killing gods (in the original myths, the weapon is used to kill Baldr, Odin's son. Lævateinn is usually recognized as mistletoe twig, but the name is etymologically originated as the Norse kenning (basically epithet) for a sword).

    The Edit Reason 
This was edited thanks to the Natter thread. The part about Freya being a member of the Vanir is forgetting that she's with the Aesir in order to act as hostage to avoid war. It would make sense for her to be present at such a conversation. Furthermore, the Take That! pothole is a nonsensical sinkhole since that isn't an example. The part about Niflheim being equivalent to the Judeo-Christian Hell is 100% incorrect. That said, a lot of sources conflate Niflheim and Helheim, and the entry about what Helheim is happens to be wrong, too. I'll just cut this example because the entry is self-contradicting. The entry about Laevateinn is also wrong. The gods are notable for being killable by anything; nearly all of them die in Ragnarok. Furthermore, the connection between "mistletoe" and "wounding stick" is not particularly strong, so I don't think calling it "mistletoe twig" is correct. The only Sadly Mythtaken part of that subbullet was the Bloodbane-Jormungand portion, but the example doesn't give enough context about what Bloodbane is or does for the connection to be clear to me. Cutting because it is effectively a ZCE.

edited 26th Mar '17 10:20:36 AM by WaterBlap

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#1429: Mar 26th 2017 at 10:50:52 AM

[up] BTW, that reason didn't all go in the edit reason box, right? Because that box isn't really suited to entire paragraphs. Usually it's best to leave something to the effect of "see discussion page" and then go into detail there.

Another step, yes, but IMO more useful than cluttering up the history page with a long edit reason that makes actual changes more difficult to spot in case they need fixing.

All your safe space are belong to Trump
WaterBlap Blapper of Water Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
#1430: Mar 26th 2017 at 2:39:54 PM

No, it all went into the edit reason. I see your point, but if finding specific edit reasons for specific changes is difficult to find in the copy of the edit reason, then wouldn't it be just as difficult in the discussion page?

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#1431: Mar 26th 2017 at 9:11:40 PM

Given how little discussion pages get used if not pointed out specifically (and some times not even then, I admit), it's not so easy for the conversation (another benefit of the discussion page, changes can be discussed instead of jumping straight to an Edit War) to get lost or to wind up pushing edits that could use work (indentation, spelling, grammar, etc) down the page where it's more difficult to spot them to fix the problem(s).

And that's not even getting into the whole "mobile user" thing. tongue

edited 26th Mar '17 9:12:35 PM by Nohbody

All your safe space are belong to Trump
WaterBlap Blapper of Water Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
#1432: Mar 26th 2017 at 9:17:17 PM

I wasn't even thinking of mobile users. Well, thanks for mentioning it, I'll be more conscious of that.

Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
LB7979 from the Netherlands Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#1433: Mar 27th 2017 at 1:51:45 AM

@jameygamer, that Lazy Bum example on Cinderella was not just nattery but actually non-applicable, so I removed it.

Having maids do all the work was perfectly normal within the setting of the movie. The fact that Tremaine abused Cinderella to do all this unpaid, is pure meanness / evilness, not lazyness.

MitchellProductions Since: Jul, 2016
#1434: May 1st 2017 at 9:47:10 AM

Is natter allowed on nightmare fuel pages like on headscratchers?

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy, but all play and no work makes Jack a mere boy
Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#1435: May 3rd 2017 at 6:10:55 AM

No. Natter is bad on all pages regardless of what type they are, and should be removed if possible.

All your safe space are belong to Trump
Gosicrystal Since: Jun, 2016 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
#1436: May 10th 2017 at 7:41:48 AM

[up][up] People answering each other is allowed on Headscratchers, but not on Nightmare Fuel.

PegasusKnightmare Since: Aug, 2016
#1437: Jun 22nd 2017 at 5:53:37 PM

Some of the Tropes Without Pages section on Forgotten Trope is getting a bit natter-y, with the 19th Century section being particularly bad. What would be best- condense the conversation into one or two bullet points? Move to a relevant page (if one exists)? Launch new pages for the ones with the most examples?

edited 22nd Jun '17 5:54:03 PM by PegasusKnightmare

jameygamer Since: May, 2014
#1438: Jul 25th 2017 at 6:53:28 PM

I think I found some Natter on Tekken, under Heihachi's entry of The Antagonist.

edited 25th Jul '17 6:53:40 PM by jameygamer

BarthVader from East of the Oder river Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Abstaining
#1439: Aug 16th 2017 at 2:18:06 PM

Analysis/RickAndMorty. After S03E04 was released, someone attempted to write a summation of what the writers did wrong, and, well, These Tropers got involved, and the whole thing seems to be closer to a bitter forum thread than to an essay.

edited 17th Aug '17 2:25:04 AM by BarthVader

jameygamer Since: May, 2014
#1440: Aug 16th 2017 at 8:44:04 PM

[up]That looks like a complaint page and a blog post. I'm not sure how Analysis pages work, as I've not been on many of them, but there is definite natter.

May open a thread is Ask The Tropers for this.

BarthVader from East of the Oder river Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Abstaining
jameygamer Since: May, 2014
#1442: Aug 17th 2017 at 2:29:40 PM

[up] And the page has been cut.

ElloMe Since: Jun, 2016 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#1443: Aug 24th 2017 at 7:13:00 PM

There's a really significant amount of natter here.

jameygamer Since: May, 2014
#1444: Aug 30th 2017 at 2:11:01 PM

OK, I found Natter on the new Ducktales 2017 page under Our Dragons Are Different. Where do we move it?

XFllo There is no Planet B from Planet A Since: Aug, 2012
There is no Planet B
#1445: Sep 1st 2017 at 9:12:53 AM

[up] You can delete it or move it to the discussion. You can fix the example indentation if you think the addition is a good entry for Our Dragons Are Different.

I think it could look like this:

  • Our Dragons Are Different: Pixiu is an Eastern dragon described as a "gold-hunting dragon", attracted to gold, probably with the intention of eating it. There really is a mythological Chinese creature called a Pixiu that technically isn't a dragon but has the head of a dragon, the body of a lion, has wings and can fly. It's known for eating gold, silver and jewels, and putting small figurines of them in your home is a way to attract wealth and good fortune in feng shui.

Or with a note:

  • Our Dragons Are Different: Pixiu is an Eastern dragon described as a "gold-hunting dragon", attracted to gold, probably with the intention of eating it. note 

edited 1st Sep '17 9:16:13 AM by XFllo

MagBas Mag Bas from In my house Since: Jun, 2009
#1446: Sep 4th 2017 at 9:07:32 PM

This is in the Darth Wiki, in Tropes:

Is the second double bullet natter?

edited 4th Sep '17 9:11:10 PM by MagBas

MagBas Mag Bas from In my house Since: Jun, 2009
#1447: Sep 8th 2017 at 11:45:29 AM

I noted two other things really similar, in the same page:

  • Child Hater: You have the right to antagonize children and teenagers. They're all nothing but annoying, immature, self-centered, and disrespectful brats. Don't worry. It's not like you were a kid once.
    • On the other hand, it would be wrong to be wary of/mistrust people in age groups who have a bad reputation for: bullying each other to the point of suicide, ruining their future by getting pregnant or going to jail at young ages, and just being outright jerks to authority figures to the point that said authority figures lose their patience and physically/verbally retaliate against them.

  • Rejected Apology: Never accept anyone's apology no matter how sincere it is.
    • Holding grudges is cool.
    • On the other hand, not simply forgiving people who murdered your loved ones, bullied you to the point of you having zero self esteem and lousy social skills, and/or were just downright horrible towards you makes you an unsympathetic asshole.

Beyond the two i noted above, i noted a "On the other hand" paragraph in Loners Are Freaks.

Again, are the "On the other hand" paragraphs natter?

jameygamer Since: May, 2014
#1448: Sep 9th 2017 at 8:38:52 PM

[up][up][up] Depends on where it should be moved. Since the natter paragraph includes a pothole to Shown Their Work, I will likely delete it or move it to Trivia.

Edit: Deleted it and pointed out it can be brought up in discussion.

edited 9th Sep '17 8:42:43 PM by jameygamer

Gosicrystal Since: Jun, 2016 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
#1449: Sep 11th 2017 at 2:31:18 PM

I found this on Necessary Drawback:

  • Vehicles equipped with a nitrous oxide injector will give the engine a sudden burst of speed, but has to be in low doses and for short periods or else it will overheat catastrophically. Likewise, larger engines like a V-8, V-10, or V-12 will have more power but will suck up gas.
    • Newer larger engines attempt to overcome the "more power, more gas" problem by selectively firing some cylinders. A powerful V-8 engine, for example, may fire all cylinders while accelerating, but will only fire half when cruising. These engines have a new drawback as a result: acceleration lag while the unused cylinders finally start firing again.
    • Turbocharged engines have the drawback of turbo lag, the period of time between when the gas pedal is pushed and when the turbo kicks in (if the turbo only activates at high RPMs, for example, then there's a noticeable difference in acceleration power until the turbo kicks in). Generally speaking, the larger the turbocharger, the more power it can achieve, but the longer it takes to kick in. One particularly ingenious design, first introduced in a BMW diesel sports car (according to Top Gear) features a small turbo for lower RPMs, and a massive turbo for higher RPMs.
      • A similar way to avoid turbo-lag is to have multiple smaller turbines feeding the same engine. While effective at minimizing lag, it requires more space than a single turbo.
      • Don't forget variable geometry turbos where through various methods (Adjusting the turbine vanes for an example)
      • And on top of VGTs, there are anti lag systems where there is a fuel injector (!) placed in the exhaust pipe before the turbo, strictly race use only. There were also some early anti-lag systems that had some type of "bleed back" system where the exhaust is piped back into the turbo. (Audi Quattro from Group B)
      • Speaking of Group B cars, twincharger, supercharger for low RPMs, turbo for high RPMs
    • Fuel economy, performance, reliability. Pick two, you cannot get third.

I think most of it is nitpicking and overlong analysis.

edited 11th Sep '17 2:31:41 PM by Gosicrystal

Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#1450: Sep 14th 2017 at 6:26:07 AM

It's a generic example to start with. Cutting it entirely would result in nothing of value being lost, IMO.

All your safe space are belong to Trump

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