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Both Haruna and Chizuru seem to share that trait, although Haruna, perhaps due to bigger panel time, actually comes off as better intentioned about it.
himitsu keisatsu
Technically, they're both well intentioned, but you know what they say about the road to hell...
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Oh for God's sake!
Haruna seems to paradoxically care about her friends but lacks empathy towards them. She cares about Nodoka progressing with Negi but cannot fathom why she just doesn't outright say 'You're my boyfriend now, let's go',since that's likely what Haruna would do.
@ Chizuru: Well, of course she's going to end up a control freak. Her intention is to be a kindergarten teacher, any other mentality is a lawsuit waiting to happen, even in Japan.
I don't think Haruna is blind to the emotional well being of others around her. Sure, she does love to get her kicks by getting reactions out of people, but she's never went so far as to actually really hurt them in the process, which is something someone like her could probably do quite easily. Let's not forget that Nodoka and Yue, who were pretty closed off from the rest of the class comparatively, were and still are very good friends with her. That has to say something, even if I'm not sure what that something is.
Chizuru...well, we don't really know much if anything about her since she's been so out of focus. She's not afraid to slap a grown ass man across the face for barging into her dorm room, which I thought was cool at the time. Then the leek happened.
edited 29th Aug '16 4:56:14 PM by SkormSnow-Strider
himitsu keisatsu
Chizuru was introduced as a motherly, quiet type, and the leek thing was just a gag that she used merely to point out that she does have an edge and isn't just marshmallow fluff (IIRC, Negi named Marshmallow Hell because of her)... but then that edge turned into bum banditry.
Haruna, meanwhile, is someone who cares but can't quite comprehend others. She has no idea why someone would punish themselves the way most do - by holding themselves back, keeping a tight lid on their emotions and desires, and the like. She probably sees her prodding people as liberating rather than annoying.
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
Isn't the road to hell lined with frozen lawyers?
Fate Grand Order players will know me as Ryusei-Go.
No, Frozen lawyers are Disney lawyers, and thus one of the most fearsome forces in the world. You don't pave any road with them: they pave roads with you.
Only in the Dark Age of the Law, they are!
edited 29th Aug '16 6:43:50 PM by SkormSnow-Strider
himitsu keisatsu
Even the original Prosecutor balks at the sight of the Frozen Lawyers.
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
World's Cutest Direwolf
"EEEEK!!! CATS!!" "Setsuna? Chill out."
Hear, hear!
@Anemoi It wasn't meant as an attack on rikalous. It was more a brutally honest comment about my lack of writing this year. Even the poke at Eva Unit I made was in jest, but serious also.
@Kurush Great Red appreciates your respect.
Madman with a box? I'm a madman with a semi, a pretzel bender and a Heart of Gold!
Fandom Heretic
As for your why/how.... at the end of the day, I simply don't see Haruna being one to officially relinquish her Captaincy status willingly (meaning, you'd basically have to have Yue and Nodoka blackmail her into stepping down). As explained by others (IANCE and OM among them), canon Haruna has more than a passing desire to Take Over the World, and while she's not at all unclever, she also wants everyone to know about her dominance.
As people on SV have said, Haruna "is the Evil Overlord who read the list."
You take that away, and IMO she kinda stops being Haruna.
Yes, Space Pirate Haruna's White Kraken is a cthulhuesque Animalistic Abomination. What's the problem?
edited 29th Aug '16 10:58:24 PM by EvaUnit01
@Marq First off, you never gave off any hint that the Kraken would be on a planet.
Secondly, we kept referring to the damn thing as a Space Kraken. Which means Kraken. In. SPACE. And since Space is the vacuum that surrounds all other planets out there, where else would the Space Kraken be if its official name was the Space Kraken?
@Eva Thank you for having the common sense out of this group for once.
Fandom Heretic
No such thing in Space Negima as Space named-after-Earthnoid-marine-animals! No, I don't give a damn if Macross 7 did it nigh-on twenty years ago!
We acknowledge your perversions, Marq, but fail to see any kind of a need or purpose for you to start making things weird-
....I take mild offense at the "for once" part of your statement, but otherwise, you're welcome.
edited 30th Aug '16 12:21:27 AM by EvaUnit01
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Call me back when one of your own interpretations actually sees posting, and then we'll talk on the subject.
So, yeah, he's actually correct, even if he's not also pointing out that they've also got positive traits (for all that Haruna is insensitive towards her friends, she does want to actually help them, she just doesn't go about it in a tactful or respectful way).
That, and in the anime (that still went with Akamatsu's approval, and technically doesn't outright contradict what little we saw of Chizuru's characterization in the manga) she's actively trollish and willing to subtly pick on Natsumi's frail ego for her own amusement.
Haruna, meanwhile, is someone who cares but can't quite comprehend others. She has no idea why someone would punish themselves the way most do - by holding themselves back, keeping a tight lid on their emotions and desires, and the like. She probably sees her prodding people as liberating rather than annoying.
I also strongly suspect that you guys are letting Akamatsu's distinct failure in giving proper Character Development to a lot of the 3-Aers skew your interpretations of their characters, with perhaps a dash of inappropiate application of Occam's Razor-like principles (i.e. "if there's not 'enough' hints for X, then it's invalid to base an argument on X and at the same time claim that it's canon-compliant").
where I said "after many trials and adventures which eventually involve the temporary forcible breakup of the crew" doesn't count for anything?
As people on SV have said, Haruna "is the Evil Overlord who read the list."
You take that away, and IMO she kinda stops being Haruna.
We acknowledge your perversions, Marq, but fail to see any kind of a need or purpose for you to start making things weird-
Secondly, we kept referring to the damn thing as a Space Kraken. Which means Kraken. In. SPACE. And since Space is the vacuum that surrounds all other planets out there, where else would the Space Kraken be if its official name was the Space Kraken?
edited 30th Aug '16 12:39:13 PM by MarqFJA
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Fandom Heretic
I mean, even in One Piece itself, the individual members of the Straw Hats typically only very rarely have what I'd consider a meaningful character shift after they've joined the crew (highlights in my recollection being Nami during the Arlong arc, and Robin and Usopp during Water Seven/Enies Lobby), and much of that is because of the story's nature as a comedy first and foremost.
Negi randomly decides to inflict Rape, Pillage, and Burn on dozens of innocent villages without being provoked just for the hell of it, giggling maniacally as he does so? "Oh, that's because his girlfriend Tsukuyomi and father-in-law Cletus Kasady have been rubbing off on him for the past several years after all his students and other positive influences got killed off in the last Crisis Crossover event."
I don't think I need to offer a further response here.
Eva Unit?
himitsu keisatsu
TL;DR: Stop being stubborn, brah.
himitsu keisatsu seifu chokuzoku kokka hoanbu na no da himitsu keisatsu yami ni magireru supai katsudou torishimari
World's Cutest Direwolf
I'm pretty sure Haruna's aspirations towards world domination come up more often than her being particularly pervy, actually. She brings BL to the magic world and draws that one page threatening her friends with whippings, but I think that's it.
(reads the two large chunks of text)
Huh. So this is what talking with me looks like from the outside.
The one and only
Kinda like listening to the sound of your own voice
I know you all miss me
OK, now there's a little more time to address some specifics.
this the most prevalent pitfall that pervades the Ranma ½ fandom in the Western world, for example, and the reason why it's so filled with Fan Dumb who think it's canon-compliant to vilify everyone in the cast as irredeemable sociopaths
The thing is, most of the Ranma cast are sociopaths. Being Played for Laughs doesn't make you any less of a sociopath, it just gives you Comedic Sociopathy. You can say even The Joker has Comedic Sociopathy often (like in Batman The Brave and The Bold), but that doesn't make him any less twisted, it's just he isn't as chillingly twisted as he'd be when he goes around stabbing people with his face ripped off.
When Mousse says he wants to killl Ranma, he means it'. Otherwise there'd be no point to his attacks- he wants Shampoo to abandon Ranma, she'll never abandon him for Mousse as long as Ranma is alive. That is the whole point of Mousse's character. Ditto for Shampoo regarding Akane. Her attempts are supposed to be comedic because she fails, not because of her lack of actual intent. As for Nabiki, Word of God from Takahashi herself says she's purely evil (even though the anime gives her a lot of humanity, but different continuity). Even Ryouga, the most honorable and generally well intentioned rival, has actually tried to downright murder Ranma and bury his body when he'd fallen for Ryouga in the Fishing Rod arc, and that wasn't his usual 'Ranma, prepare to die!' shallow mere bravado— he was thinking that to himself, when he had no reason to exaggerate out of sheer anger.
And as for being irredeemable, time and time again they prove themselves to be rather stubborn, blind to their own flaws, in flat out denial of changing for the better, and clingy to Status Quo Is God. So... yeah. Other than a handful (Tofu, arguably Kasumi and Cologne, Ranma and Akane themselves— and even the latter two, while great people at their core, bring out the worst out of each other repeteadly) who can be reasonable and overall pleasant to interact with as long as you don't greatly cross them, they are horrible people. It doesn't mean they can't be endearing despite (or because of) their many flaws, that they can't be interesting and funny. But still, they're horrible people, and being played for comedy doesn't change that.
Think of it as a reverse Carnival Phantasm— if you started your Type Moon exposure by watching CP, you'd be right by deducing it means, in a 'realistic' interpretation, Gilgamesh is a selfish, arrogant and callous ubermensch; Shinji cruelly abuses Sakura routinely for his own sense of self worth and primal satisfaction; Caster has an unhealthy and creepy attraction for Saber; and so on. You wouldn't think 'oh, this is all comedic exaggeration only and in reality they all would be nice people'. Because they actually aren't, well, not the ones who act like dicks, perverts and murderers for our laughs anyway. The joke works because their comedic sociopathy has a basis on a 'serious' context as well.
The difference between comedy and tragedy is consequences. In tragedy, consequences tend to bite you in the ass and drag you down. In comedy, consequences are a punchline that only endure if it can keep being funny (see Perpetual Poverty).
In the end, as always, it comes down to execution. After all, it's possible for the enduring consequence punchline to be believable.
edited 30th Aug '16 5:35:09 PM by SCMof2814
Someone should write a Gao Gai Gar / Mahou Sensei Negima cross. Because a little bit of courage is the real magic.
