During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Ultron
to Romero from TMNT
unicron and chucky. That standards moment is more like something the joker would do
to palpatine
Have we discusse dthis version of Ucron? I can't remember.
I'm Sad Frogerson.
I did an effort post for that incarnation of Unicron over a year ago, and it was determined he didn't count because that version was Made of Evil.
See, Unicron is referred to as a living embodiment of destruction and evil. This could be passed off as a figure of speech, but we see that Unicron is so evil that his blood (Dark Energon) has corrupting properties. Exposure to Dark Energon can leave entire worlds poisoned, revive the dead as zombies, and actually ban Cybertronians exposed to excessive amount of it from the afterlife. This Unicron seems to follow the God of Evil route more directly than other versions, so there's an issue with agency there.
I'd vote him up otherwise, but my original point hasn't been refuted, so ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
.
Suggested revision for The Rock, since the original doesn't mention their provoking a massacre of the SEAL team (10 deaths), which is referred to on the YMMV page as their Moral Event Horizon and Co-Dragons doesn't apply. They fit The Brute more than The Dragon; Major Baxter's The Dragon to Hummel. They also don't try to kill the tourists themselves.
Original:
- The Rock: Captains Frye and Darrow attempt to extort money by threatening San Francisco with Deadly Gas. While their superior Anti-Villain General Hummel wants to distribute the money to families of soldiers whose deaths went unrecognized and without compensation, they only want it for themselves. When it becomes apparent Hummel is bluffing, they act swift to remove Hummel from command and eventually kill him while proceeding with the attack. Even when it becomes apparent they've lost, Frye and Darrow try to send a rocket at the city armed with poison gas to kill every civilian they possibly can and attempt to kill the 81 tourists they have locked in Alcatraz to ensure a lack of witnesses. Their whole motivation for this is as Darrow sums up himself: "I want my FUCKING! MONEY!"
Suggested expansion:
- The Rock: Captains Frye and Darrow attempt to extort money by threatening San Francisco with Deadly Gas. While their superior Anti-Villain General Hummel wants to distribute the money to families of soldiers whose deaths went unrecognized and without compensation, they only want it for themselves and deliberately provoke a massacre of a Navy SEAL team just because they like killing. When it becomes apparent Hummel is bluffing, they act swift to remove Hummel from command and eventually kill him while proceeding with the attack. Even when it becomes apparent they've lost, Frye and Darrow try to send a rocket at the city armed with poison gas to kill every civilian they possibly can and provoke the army into killing the 81 tourists they have locked in Alcatraz to ensure a lack of witnesses. Their whole motivation for this is as Darrow sums up himself: "I want my FUCKING! MONEY!"
Offhand, how many incarnations are we on for Ultron? And any reason why the !film version of Ultron doesn't count?
edited 17th Oct '17 7:25:21 PM by k410ren
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Given this info, to Unicron.
for Unicron as going over your post you said it's a character explaining his backstory and not speaking hyperbolically.
Rewrite's fine but I'm going to do some serious work on the potholes.
edited 17th Oct '17 7:20:59 PM by 43110
Yeah, shame on this Unicron, but he's a nay, nay, nay.
I understand he is made of evil but he is sadistic and committed unnecessary torture on Megatron for no reason
Being sadistic and wantonly cruel would indeed be the hallmark of someone Made of Evil
to the Rock villains
Is it just me, or a lot of CMs wind up being a shade short of GDV?
The Unknown Unknown
More than sure it's just you, partner. Granted, some barely miss the mark (Validar, Grima, The Fallen from that one film, etc.), but generally, no.
A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Well to me, quite a few just pop up and don't have any personality other than killing a few people, like Angel Eyes and Gaear Grimsrud. When I made an unsuccessful EP for Harlen Maguire, I did that EP because Maguire reminded me of Grimsrud.
edited 17th Oct '17 7:59:13 PM by k410ren
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Hey I have an interesting question, I remember a collection of Joker short stories from my youth that feature Joker committing various crimes, from grandiose crimes to some petty crimes, each story features Joker from a different angle, but all of them present Joker in a negative light. Should I just pick Joker at his worst in one of the stories or should all the stories be put together and judge Joker on every crime in this collection of short stories?
If they're related I'd EP them together
As I've discussed with Overlord, if the stories are written by different authors — and I think they might very well be — I'd just do the worst ones of the lot.
Prime!Unicron.
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
Prime!Unicorn, I mean Unicron.
Too bad too. Was quite a neat villain.
...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.
Any opinions on the Al-Asad writeup here.
Back with another Halloween candidate, this time from a Square Enix horror manga called Ibitsu.
What's the work?
There's talk of a ghastly lolita girl who prowls the night to ask young men if they have a younger sister. Regardless of what you say, answering her question beckons the evil girl to herself become the victim's younger sister, read as: eerily follow you around... until she decides to kill you horribly.
We're introduced to our protagonist, college student Kazuki, as he's being yelled at by his own little sister to take out the trash. As he does, he sees a filthy girl lying by the dumpster, a mysterious dark liquid around her legs and stitches on her arms like she cut herself open and put herself back together. Turning her head, the girl asks, "Do you have a younger sister?". Out of fear, Kazuki responds that he does, dumps his trash and runs back home.
Now let's find out what shenanigans that gets him into...
Who is the Lolita? What has she done?
Beginning to stalk Kazuki, when he sees her and is too scared to approach, he throws his trash in the pile. She follows him home and screams that he dirtied her (already filthy) stuffed bunny, "Keiichi" and demands to use his sink to wash it, gross dark liquid and a foul smell emanating when she does. Convincing Kazuki's landlady she's his sister who lost her key to his apartment, the Lolita begins watching him sleep and creeping around his place.
When she sees Kazuki with his actual sister, Hikari, she goes full on Yandere. Killing a dog for barking at her, she stows back to Kazuki's apartment and cooks it as Hikari unwittingly arrives to clean the place. Getting angry with Hikari for not wanting to eat her soup after seeing the dog's paw in it, the Lolita terrifies her by eating an eyeball so much that she wets herself. Screaming that Hikari is filthy, she attempts to "clean her" by putting an iron to her crotch. Fortunately, Kazuki arrives fast enough and the duo escape to the police, though returning to the apartment which appears clean leads to the officer laughing at them. Kazuki goes back to live with his mom out of terror.
Tricking Hisaki's mother she's her friend on the basketball team, the Lolita gets Hisaki to come to the school to murder her. After killing the janitor with a hammer, she tortures Hisaki's friend, smashing her limbs and jaw, leaving her a wheezing carcass before playing a sadistic game of hide and seek before wounding and killing Hisaki herself.
Kazuki and his friend research the Lolita, discovering a string of bodies connected to people who had contact with her and go to a now abandoned mental hospital to see what they can dig up. As Kazuki finds a book detailing a patient's stay, it at first appears she herself was once a victim of tragedy—her older brother murdered her family, tormented her for days and then killed herself. By the time she arrived at the hospital, we see the hell she went through, refusing to take off her filthy dress because her brother demanded she wears it, fearfully licking up food off the ground when she drops it and revealing she used to be made to eat garbage. Eventually she maddens the doctor to the point he kills everyone in the hospital. Oh, yeah, one more detail? All that shit she went through... actually said older brother, who she broke so much he thought he was her sister and was the real one put through those cruel treatments. Also, neither he nor the doctor actually killed anyone, the Lolita did and framed them.
After killing his two friends, the Lolita drugs Kazuki, takes him back to his house, murders his parents and spends the next days breaking him much like the last poor bastard. Everyday she makes him draw pictures of her and when she doesn’t like it "punishes" him by doing things like stapling his eyelid open or ripping out a tooth. When he tries to kill her, she tricks him into killing a kindly neighbor who had heard his screams and come to check it out. Deciding he is not an "ideal" brother, the Lolita decides to kill him as Kazuki begs and pleads for his life. Here we learn exactly what "Keiichi" is: the stuffed animal bears the doctor's first name, which the Lolita filled with his guts. Opening her toy up with a chainsaw, the Lolita rechristened it "Kazuki" and butchers him, leaving evidence for him to be implicated in a murder-suicide.
The end, sleep well!
Heinousness?
Easy, she's a Serial Killer who murders eight people horribly in the main story, as well as a dog and we get flashbacks of the other many, many murders she's committed in the past.
Mitigating factors?
The manga takes a Maybe Magic, Maybe Mundane stance as to what she is but there's nothing to imply she lacks moral agency. Given the amount of Slasher Smiles, Evil Laughter and sadistic gambits she ploys, the Lolita is a dangerously intelligent psychopath.
Verdict
Be she human or something else, the Lolita is a monster
On that note... given the Downer Ending, I'm really glad it ended itself with a funny omake about Kazuki telling the Lolita he doesn't want a little sister... but a big one, much to her confusion.
Yea to the Lolita... getting serious Junji Ito vibes from this one.
Complete Monster (hopeful) addition: Unicron from TV show Transformers Prime and movie Tranformers Prime Beast Hunters: Predacons Rising
Who is he: Known as the Chaos Bringer, he fought his brother Primus for control of the universe billions of years ago. After being defeated thanks to the Primes, he went unconscious and later debris collected around him to make our very own Earth.
Why he is evil: In the show, he is trying to awake - along with trying to kill Optimus Prime - even though his awakening will destroy the Earth. Optimus pleads with him to save humanity, but he calls his own progeny "parasites" and even says later on he mainly wants the Earth to fall into chaos for his own amusement. He is eventually defeated by the Matrix of Leadership, which contains the spirit of Primus. In Predacons Rising, he possess Megatron's corpse (thus ressurecting the Decepticon leader) and says that he needs his body to go and destroy Cybertron and Primus with it. He tells Megatron he cannot go to thier version of robot heaven and when Megatron fights back, he says Megatron will endure ETERNAL SUFFERING. He later tries to END ALL CYBERTRONIANS by destroying the Allspark, their main source of life. (Luckily, he fails). (BTW, I know about how people do not like all Caps, but I am only trying to stress the important parts of Unicron's description, so sorry in advance)
Redeeming qualities/Freudian Excuse: NOPE. He is happy to kill billions for his own amusement and is set on plunging the whole universe into chaos.
Heinous standard: He is the most powerful and most evil character in the series. He literally traumatized Megatron into becoming good (thus doing a 180 on the entire Transformers series)
Conclusion: Unicron is a self-centered, sadistic, and cruel monster, whose goal is only to spread chaos across existence and make countless suffer for the sake of being evil. He is even worse than Silas or Arachnid by far and is a perfect example of a Complete Monster