During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Really thats great! I also found this image of Sir Arthur Donaldson that would make a really good image for the page
I not very good at this so bare with me
http://www.bamby.de/2014/Ripper01d.JPG}}
edited 31st Aug '16 5:46:15 PM by G-Editor
Wild Child
Anywho, is anyone going to vote on this?
edited 31st Aug '16 8:06:59 PM by Clown-Face
Why so serious?
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
All right I voted for it. I thought that discussion was closed by now?
Remember how several months ago Ratchet and Clank was brought up and, while it was decided that Drek did not count due to the fact that in this version he really is just trying to build a new world, Nefarious was never really discussed? Well, I just saw the film, and while I know it's pretty late, I think he counts. I hope this is not too awkward, but here's an effortpost:
Who is Nefarious? What does he do?
Nefarious was a member of the Galactic Rangers, who was mistreated by Qwark, which led to him turning evil and trying to atomize Aleero City. After being stopped and sent to prison, Nefarious escaped and paid people to say that he had been killed while trying to get free.
After his escape, Nefarious sought revenge on the rangers, so he approached Drek and allied himself with him, building the Deplanitizer and other technology for Drek, allowing him to destroy planets and obtain landmasses from them to use for his new world.
After destroying 5 planets, Nefarious gave Drek the idea to manipulate Qwark into working with them so they could try and destroy the rangers while obliterating planet Novelis. After destroying Novelis (though it was evacuated), Nefarious betrayed Drek by turning him into a sheep and sending him on a crash course with his new planet. Taking over the Blarg, Nefarious planned to destroy planet Umbris, a volatile planet, the destruction of which would cause a chain reaction that would destroy the entire solar system.
As Umbris was going to be destroyed, Nefarious tried to flee the solar system and leave the Blarg to die. Before he could flee though, a Blarg informed him that Ratchet and Clank were thwarting the attempt to destroy Umbris. Obsessed with victory, Nefarious decided to stop them himself, even though it meant being caugfht in the explosion himself. Arriving at the Deplanitizer base, Nefarious whipped out the R.Y.N.O to try and kill Ratchet, Clank, and Qwark. Ratchet whacked him in the head with his wrench and sent him falling into the core of the Deplanitizer, stopping him and saving the solar system. In a post credits sequence, he is shown to have survived and become a robot like in the games.
Is he heinous enough?
He tried to destroy an entire solar system, and he provided the means for Drek to destroy a number of planets. 6 planets are destroyed in the film, and while it least one of them was evacuated, they didn't know that at the time. Nefarious easily meets the baseline. As for the settings standard, while Drek destroyed 6 planets, it was once again Nefarious that made that possible, and Nefarious eclipses Drek by trying to destroy an entire solar system.
Redeeming features or mitigating factors?
Not really. His "excuse" is that he was mistreated by Qwark. Needless to say, that's a pathetic excuse for what he does in the film.
Is he treated seriously?
He's a Large Ham like in the games, but he's still treated as a serious threat. He's Laughably Evil at most. The only scene that is actually played for laughs with him in it, is when Qwark messes up a one liner, which doesn't mitigate the fact that he's trying to destroy the solar system.
Overall, I'd say he's a keeper. Sorry this is late, but no one else would do an effortpost on him, and I only just saw the film now.
edited 31st Aug '16 11:01:21 PM by bobg
jjj
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Nefarious
Avatar by Leafsnake
@ACW: In regards to the Webcomic CM Cleanup. I still put forward my objection to Jack Noir on the basis of having an Even Evil Has Standards moment, and several of his villainous actions being influenced by feelings that had been ruled as not really being his.
Gonna say ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
on Mulgarath. He seems like a very standard villain: Take over the world, and killing the protagonists. The Crippling and whipping out the Dwarves are the standouts, but I can't quite see him as a CM just on those.
Granted, the Heinous Standard is pretty low. Goblins and Dragons are Always Chaotic Evil, the Bridge Troll tries to eat the kids, but that's in its nature. The Elves basically killed Arthur Spiderwick (took him to their realm where he'd stop aging, and kept him long enough so that if he leaves he'd age to death) though, because he didn't give them that book. Still Mulgarath is the one who is the most evil.
I'm assuming we're only doing the Book version, the Dwarves were Adapted Out of the Movie, and I don't think it get's into what he did to the Aunt. It's been a while since I've seen the movie though.
edited 1st Sep '16 2:01:03 AM by DrPsyche
Nefarious
I don't know, Dr. Nefarious sounds pretty cartoonish of a name. Judging by my research on him he seems like a cackling, Card-Carrying Villain.
I did say he was Laughably Evil and a Large Ham, but those are not mutually exclusive from this trope.
Messenger from another dimension.
Nefarious, does he count in the game too?
edited 1st Sep '16 6:08:17 AM by emperors
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Definitely not in the original games. He kinda has Villain Decay to the point that he's actually a protagonist in later games. Not sure about the reboot.
edited 1st Sep '16 6:40:49 AM by Larkmarn
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Messenger from another dimension.
I know because I played the original games. I was asking about reboot.
Lizzid people!
Nefarious.
As someone who has played and beaten the reboot game, I can say that I believe Nefarious qualifies in the game, as it pretty much follows the same plot as the movie (many of the game's cutscenes are even used in the film), Nefarious commits the same crimes, and I also don't recall any Freudian Excuse present at all in the game.
Messenger from another dimension.
So which page should he go under?
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
That's...a good question actually. Is there ANY notable difference? I'll him BTW.
2527: Even if he is, we've had over-the-top villains before. Notably Judge Death. And we also have one whose name is Carnage.
I don't HATE that picture of Donaldson, but the fact you can see her nipple poking through makes me a bit wary.
edited 1st Sep '16 10:06:56 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Nefarious. Being Laughably Evil doesn't necessarily disqualify a villain frome being a CM. Also, Drek in the original game had some comedic moments too (like "We're still on ?! Well, turn it off you idiot !!)
edited 1st Sep '16 10:46:01 AM by MovieFan2000
Okay so that's 5 and 1 for Mulgarath, are their any more votes?
And yes it is only the book series, I never even saw the film version to be truthful. From the sounds of it, he was even more generic in it.
Yeah, but didn't we downvote a villain for making people he controlled dance....or something like that in a deleted scene not too long ago?
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
This is true. But there's a difference between being Laughably Evil and menacing/threatening, and being unnecessarily humorous in a way that negates any sort of depravity a villain may have. Case in point, Max from The Losers shoots a woman in the face because she stumbled and couldn't hold an umbrella over his head. The movie plays this as being funny. Doesn't change the fact that he murdered an innocent woman over literally nothing.
edited 1st Sep '16 11:48:19 AM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I did say that there was one (and only one) moment where Nefarious was being used mainly for laughs. It's the scene where he reacts to Qwark's failed attempt at a one-liner. To remain completely fair and not keep anything from the discussion, here is the scene, judge it for yourselves and decide if this one moment disqualifies him:
- Nefarious: Day after day, I slaved away, creating ALLLLL the weapons and devices that made you look like a hero! But you're not a hero! You're not even a good villain! You're the galaxy's biggest joke!
Qwark: Maybe...but now, the last laugh...is on you! [draws gun]
Nefarious: [mid-charging up weapon] Wait, what? That doesn't make any sense.
Qwark: Sure it did.
Nefarious: No, it didn't! It sounded like you were combining "the joke is on you" with "I'll have the last laugh".
Qwark: Take your pick.
Nefarious: THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS!!!
[a few moments later]
Nefarious: My point is, if you're going to use a one-liner, it should make sense AND BE RELATIVE TO THE SITUATION!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Nah, I'd say that's probably not disqualifying.
Doesn't even like this username
I could easily see someone like the Joker saying that (cf. the page image for Don't Explain the Joke). Not disqualifying to me (and I'll give him a )
edited 1st Sep '16 1:20:55 PM by LordXavius
edited 31st Aug '16 5:35:17 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts