During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Commander and Geist.
Coonan may sound bad enough, but he truly doesn't stand out, so I fully agree. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
I would like to note in response to ACW's comment about it being a light week that a light week is okay. Our job is to make sure that everyone on the list belongs there, and if we don't have anyone worth proposing we shouldn't go hunting for potential examples.
I don't mean to make this sound accusatory, but it often seems that whenever someone comments/complains about us having a comparatively light week a bad example or bad examples are proposed within a couple of posts as someone tries to find something to talk about. That's not to say that's what's happening with any of the recent proposals, but I do think it's an attitude we need to be wary of.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Honestly I added Dino Geist cause I just finished the series today and no other reason.
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
The "screw you suicide" seems to be a pretty popular way for monstrous villains to die.
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
This would be the 4th or 5th version of the commander to count (one of the commanders listed is technicly a different character).
edited 25th Aug '16 9:19:42 PM by bobg
jjj
Avatar by Leafsnake
Yeah, I still feel Jack Noir isn't a contender. What LE accomplished was far greater in scope than what Jack could do, so the Even Evil Has Standards moment feels more pronounced. Especially since after Act 5, the story kind of looses track of Jack's villainy and has him played more for laughs and doing much much less.
And I still do feel that the Unstoppable Rage he felt at Jade's death because of Bec's artificial feelings affects his agency.
That and the ending to me does hint that he could be redeemed (which is bullshit of the highest order but such is life).
Heck I feel Lord English's agency is questionable, since his species, a Cherub, are born with personalities that are inherently good (his sister) or inherently evil (which his is). And as LE all he really does is evil Cherub things (destroying shit) but on a larger scale because of the powers he's been granted. But I've long since been overruled on LE.
Jack though I feel should be cut.
With or without Suicide by Cop being involved. Captain Zahl certainly springs to mind there.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Oh, Ambar, that wasn't a complaint, believe me ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
. Less work for me; more of a statement than anything. Commander. I guess he'd go on both the Joe and Transformers subpages?
Having recently become familiar with Legend of Galactic Heroes, I'd like to propose an expansion for Prince Otho von Braunschweig.
Here's the current entry:
- Duke (later Prince) Otho von Braunschweig, heir to the Goldenbaum dynasty, acts swiftly to crush any hint of rebellion from any subordinate and shows no remorse at all at any deaths that occur. He continues the Goldenbaum dynasty's despicable policies of eugenics and oppress to the populace, but his crowning achievement of villainy is when protests against the Goldenbaums occur at the colony world of Westerland. Braunschweig just decides to kill every inhabitant on the world with a nuclear strike.
And here's my proposed expansion:
- Prince Otho von Braunchsweig, is the son-in-law of Kaiser Frederich IV and the most ruthless member of the nobility. Dissatisfied with the former Kaiser's grandson being made the new ruler of the empire instead of Braunschweig's daughter, Braunschweig launched a civil war with the goal of seizing absolute power for himself. He continued the Goldenbaum Dynasty's despicable policies of eugenics, believing nobles to be inherently superior to commoners, and allowed himself and his fellow aristocrats free reign in oppressing the planets under their control. Braunschweig was an incompetent military leader who treated his subordinates terribly, threatened a genius admiral's family to force him to serve him, executed the sole surviving noble of a battle for merely suspecting him of treason, arrested his loyal right-hand advisor for privately criticizing one of Braunschweig's insane orders, and overall cared nothing for the soldiers whose lives he threw away in pursuit of his own personal glory. However, Braunschweig's most monstrous act was a crime known as the Westerland Massacre. When the colony world of Westerland killed his oppressive nephew, Braunschweig was outraged at the commoners "ingratitude" and decided to Make an Example of Them by nuking the entire planet, murdering its entire population of two million civilians. Not only was this a war crime, but after it was carried out, it resulted in mass defections from his soldiers and suicides from allied nobles. In a series filled to the brim with Grey-and-Gray Morality, Braunschweig was by far the most despicable human being present, embodying the absolute worst of the corruption inherent in the Goldenbaum Dynasty's aristocracy.
Any thoughts?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I like; more detail is good for short entries like that. Please add to the drafts page.
With Commander. Geeze, that guy invites being a Complete Monster.
So, does Dino Geist have enough up votes for me to make a post for him?
to the Cobra Commander.
When a giant alien robot warlord, famous for pursuing a genocide campaign finds you appalling you know your evil.
I've just finished my new proposal and unfortunately it's much longer than I expected. I hope you'll forgive me but I had to summarize three books and one short story. 
Before I post it may I ask a troper if they can help me with the spelling, grammar and writting structure? I already reread my text ten times but as english isn't my mother tongue I might let some mistakes.
thanks
No problem, Silver. I'll be glad to.
cobra commander
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
- Godzillawolf: Definitely. Geist has MORE than enough Just please also put the writeup on the Drafts page (in my sig).
- Silverblade2: I'm kinda curious how long here. I'd not be too worried though. We've had effortposts over 5,200 words, another nearly 5,000, and another over 3,000. Meanwhile, mine are MAYBE a couple hundred
- Incidentally, this would be the 5th iteration of Commander to count. One more than Apocalypse and Brainiac, and trailing only Red Skull and of course Joker.
edited 26th Aug '16 11:25:35 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Hey, I take pride in that 5200 word post. It's very thorough. An agonising headache to read, maybe, but thorough.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Really, for what he did, all you had to say was "causes a flood killing 2 million people" and "advising Adolf Hitler" and associating with Stalin.
I don't necessarily think longer is better when it comes to effortposts as they're supposedly to concisely organize information about candidates. With Cipher and I imagine with characters like Savage, their role is too big to neatly bundle into anything longer than a few-thousand words.
Now, on the subject of rewrites... DeCarta, didn't you make a touched-up writeup for Roch Theriault some time ago? That never ended up built on.
edited 26th Aug '16 1:58:42 PM by Scraggle
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Agreed. I mean, some NEED to be long, either because their list of deeds is so long, or they have potential mitigating factors. But for the most part, the "clear, concise" rule should probably apply to effortposts as well.
As for Roch, an expansion would not be bad.
A complete overhaul for Roch would be appreciated. The writeup's terrible and it seems he's only been glanced at in the thread.
I can watch the film and give him a proper rewrite if we want.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Found this at Morbius:
- Complete Monster: Presumably based on the likes of Josef Mengele and Shiro Ishii, Doctor Thaddeus Paine abducted people he deemed "worthless" and "lost causes" so he could perform gruesome surgeries and experiments on them. While he claimed that he was furthering medical knowledge by doing so, it was clear that he was just a lunatic who cut fully conscious and aware people up in order satiate his own sadism, and morbid curiosities regarding how much the human body could endure and be altered before it finally gave out. He became even worse in a later appearance, due to Venom unintentionally giving him an appetite for human brains.
@ACW: In my defense, Savage was the Big Bad for the whole season, and he almost never appeared on screen without saying or doing something awful, so a brief post was... unlikely. Zoom was almost as bad. It feels like this past year, the Arrowverse writers were actively trying to get in a CM for each show (hell, they even described Arrow's Anarky as a Complete Monster in-universe). Either way, I aim for brevity, but I often miss.
@Scraggle: I did touch up Thériault's entry a while back. Here's mine, but if you feel like you can do a better job, then more power to ya.
- Roch "Moses" Thériault is a sociopathic cult leader. Using his skills in manipulation, Thériault keeps a harem of wives and children to worship him. Selfish and cruel, Thériault only values these people for the sake of his own ego, abusing them at will and, at one point, casually dismembering one of his wives with an eerie serenity. Surviving through his charm, Thériault keeps his followers in line with his manipulations, and even manages to convince a group of researchers that he is entirely innocent.
@Shadao: I fully agree about Prime Megatron. His Heel Realisation didn't feel out-of-character (bit sudden, but believable enough, I thought), but he had a list of atrocities as long as my arm. And honestly, given how incompatible the two versions seem (besides, it's Transformers; continuity's kind of sketchy at the best of times), I'm tempted to propose Game!Megatron... which would be easier if I'd played Fall of Cybertron (it's on my to-do list).
It is better to write for yourself and have no public than to write for the public and have no self.