During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
RIP Toriyama
Late, but I'll give a 'Yes' to Mr. Smith. Love me some Christopher Walken.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
mr smith
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Sydney
Christopher walken, one of the most interesting actors I've ever seen
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
who was the other candidate aside from mr smith?
edited 22nd Aug '16 5:31:45 PM by Mediawatcher
Surprising he's only had two characters thus far. I might need to look a little deeper into that subject - Gary Oldman too.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Max Zorin, a Bond villain - probably one of the most vile from the original film chronology.
edited 22nd Aug '16 5:41:43 PM by Scraggle
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
Sydney. We only see an implication he may kill those two, and there's just far worse monsters among the show anyway.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
C'mon Scraggle, you know the routine 
. To the drafts page please.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Well now. In my current state of seeking out new things to binge-watch and/or read, it seems like I stumbled upon another TV series called Strike Back that may have a contender or a few in them.
Also TMNT is finally back from hiatus, so I'm extremely happy right now.
edited 22nd Aug '16 6:43:20 PM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Tweaking my Ewell rewrite:
- To Kill a Mockingbird: Robert E. Lee "Bob" Ewell personifies all that was wrong with Dixie in the 1930s. For starters, he's a terrible, neglectful father, to the point where the sheriff actually turns a blind eye to him hunting out of season out of pity for the little Ewells. He gets Tom Robinson, a disabled black man, arrested for supposedly raping and beating his daughter Mayella. Atticus, the defense lawyer, shows that Tom was physically incapable of committing the crime, and that it was Bob who caught Mayella making advances on an unwilling Tom ,and beat her himself. Since the book takes place in the Deep South several decades before the Civil Rights movement, the all-white jury sentences Tom to death anyway. Bob Ewell still tries to take revenge on those that ridiculed him during the trial, It's also implied at one point that Bob himself has been sexually abusing Mayella. Even though Tom Robinson is dead, Bob stays angry with Atticus for digging up the truth. As revenge, he tries to kill Atticus's children on their way home from a school play.
After replaying through the Mega Man X series, I'm going to have to reopen the Sigma request. The reason why he was rejected was because he was under the influence of the Maverick Virus. However, Mega Man X5 revealed that some of the Mavericks infected by the virus still have some of their former selves within and begged X or Zero to put them out of their misery. Sigma, on the other hand, is completely aware that he's infected by the virus and doesn't care. As far as the heinous standard goes within the original timeline for the Mega Man franchise, he has a higher body count than Dr. Weil, since Mega Man X6 establishes that the Eurasia Crash was the canon route of Mega Man X5 and nearly all human life was wiped out, as re-population from a genocide of that magnitude could take a long time.
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
As a side note, Ewell was one of my favorite discussions we had in this thread, largely because the conclusion we decided on - he's not the product of a broken system, he's actively aware the system is broken and games it for his own benefit - set a strong precedent we've used for several other villains.
A total has-been.
I also like how it takes a villain's resources into consideration. Bob has next to nothing, and that's why he got written off as being small potatoes and not a threat in-universe by Atticus. A point is made of just how much Atticus and everyone else underestimated Bob's monstrosity, how he'd be depraved enough to try to get to Atticus through the murder of his children, with no resources but a knife and the willingness to use it on two kids. After that, he's seen as heinous by all the characters who learn of it.
edited 22nd Aug '16 7:47:42 PM by ANewMan
Avatar by Leafsnake
I remember the Bob discussion. We went back and forth over whether his daughter's talk about kisses from him was platonic or supposed to be a reference to parental incest and if that ambiguity meant it should be listed.
I've got two people saying cut to Jack Noir. Should I message the person who brought him up? Maybe they'd be interested to give counterpoints or something.
His daughter's lines there indicate strongly as to 'something else', as she refers to something he does to her specifically.
It's been a bit since I read that chapter, but didn't Mayella say that in relation to a question on whether or not she's a virgin?
Also, I might have a new proposal soon.
Lizzid people!
Yeah, that was when Tom was giving his account on what happened.
And she said she was because what her father did 'didn't count'
Seems pretty unambiguous to me.
EDIT: Scratch the proposal. The character I was thinking of isn't heinous enough.
edited 22nd Aug '16 11:36:35 PM by DemonDuckofDoom
Avatar by Leafsnake
That was when she was remarking that no man had kissed her until Tom and "what my daddy does doesn't count"
Bob's a rancorous piece of shit and I think he did it, but other than that one line there's no other reference to it (outside of maybe the presence of Mayella's siblings which some argue are too young to have been born before their mother passed). Feels too ambiguous to be honest. Though if it's left in I'm not gonna care.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
- Ah yes, Strike Back. Gratuitous violence and sex scenes ahoy!
![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]")
A contender from that series would not surprise me one bit.
- Incidentally, I HOPE to effortpost Caesar Russell (and maybe Gunther Botha) from Area 7 Saturday morning.
- Dr. Psyche: Yeah, PM the one who brought Jack up.
edited 23rd Aug '16 6:11:45 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
As of last night I've finished Season 2 (yes I'm including the Origins season), and I already found one or two candidates. And considering how addicting this show is, I might burn through it by next week.
Expect an effortpost soonish (by soon I mean in a week. ....Or three).
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Ewell is particularly despicable. You'll find no argument from me on this.
@Demon Duck Out of curiously, who were you going to propose?
Just grabbed Season 8 of Castle. Will do LokSat's write up in the next week or so. I'll begin writing I think after the episode The G.D.S.
I still pose the question as to whether or not sparing Caleb is a disqualifying factor for him or not. Since letting them get Sam the driver off the bus wasn't in Speed for Payne, then probably not. Much like Payne bombed Helen for trying to get off right after, LokSat did have someone else brutally murdered in Caleb's place instead.
I know I said I wouldn't but I'll also effort post Dick Coonan. Maybe he does count.
In the meantime, I have a couple other plans for the next few days on here. I'll get to them soon.
edited 23rd Aug '16 8:10:11 AM by futuremoviewriter
Just a quick question, would anyone be opposed to me snatching up the discussion dates for Spider-Man Homecoming, Captain Marvel, Shazam, Cyborg, and Green Lantern Corps? Granted, I doubt anyone's gonna qualify in Homecoming (Though I'd love to be surprised by the Vulture being given a hell of an Adaptational Villainy treatment) and the other four are REALLLLLLLLLY far off, but I suppose it wouldn't hurt.
And as a reminder, I'm going to be discussing anything regarding the third season of Steven Universe tomorrow morning. It's gonna be a pretty short discussion though. :I
edited 23rd Aug '16 9:00:10 AM by FriedWarthog
Carmilla from Bloodwine.
Wild Child
Anymore votes here?
Actually, Duck. I wanna see this one. Go for it
edited 22nd Aug '16 5:31:53 PM by AustinDR