During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Wild Child
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Belarios.
Yes to Belarios, I guess? I'd appreciate a more detailed effortpost, but whatever.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Preferably a little more in the "what has he done" section. I mean, an incredibly short paragraph is an incredibly bare-bones description for a candidate, and it seems most of his actions fall more on his cult than him from what you've said. Context for those actions, for starters, would be appreciated.
edited 24th Jul '16 2:41:37 PM by Scraggle
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
What more do you need? I'm going out now, but I can reply tomorrow maybe. ![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
Hmm, that's fair. Though he is the head of the cult, and, among other things, slaps the hero's daughter to get the Seventh Seal (and makes a cut on her face with a knife). He is, admittedly, somewhat of a Non-Action Big Bad, but is directly responsible for pretty much everything. Also, I looked back: He calls Satan "my father", and is clearly not human: Some sort of demon-turned-Corrupt Corporate Executive.
edited 24th Jul '16 2:52:24 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Seconding a longer post.
Caesar
I'll say 'Yes' to Belarios.
In other news, Ronan and Thanos' arcs on Guardians of the Galaxy seem to be done, and, without spoilers, I will be proposing both in 2 weeks, and at least one of them will most likely end up counting.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
A total has-been.
Hey, I mentioned my intended Pokemon proposals a while back. The recent movie got released on July 16 - when will the Big Bad be eligible to be discussed?
Two weeks from then, with a note: the Pokemon movies are generally released a few months later internationally than the premiere date in Japan, so I should ask whether or not the film's been released in English yet?
edited 24th Jul '16 2:52:51 PM by Scraggle
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Two weeks from the release...Saturday the 30th. has a good point though.
edited 24th Jul '16 2:54:23 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Farringworth (that book sounds So Bad, It's Good, even to a gorehound like myself).
I would prefer a more detailed effortpost before voting on Belarios.
edited 24th Jul '16 2:56:24 PM by DemonDuckofDoom
A total has-been.
No, it doesn't get an English release until sometime in Fall, I think.
I'd suggest waiting on conversation until it gets a wider release, then.
Belarios even if he doesn't do much personally, attempting to cause the apocalypse alone is enough.
But for now, how about talking about your other Pokemon proposals?
A total has-been.
@Scraggle: We could still discuss the candidate at the end of the month, and after the dub release the only thing that *might* have to be changed about his entry would be his name, but that's only hypothetical - they could keep his original name for all we know.
Alright, I guess I'll first prepare the effort post for the obscure manga villain I mentioned.
edited 24th Jul '16 4:30:30 PM by ANewMan
It's not really a change in information that I'm worried about so much as it is that it's going to be much harder for those who want to see the film to watch it until it's released internationally. Posting a writeup months before an English release is just asking to preemptively spoil the movie.
ACW: Please for the expanded effortpost...detail more of the history/characters of the setting and detail what he's done and why he bears more responsibility for his group's activities, please?
A total has-been.
Don't we usually put up spoiler warnings for that kind of thing?
Sometimes, sometimes not, but I've generally noted spoiler tags aren't always used in writeups. Point is, I'd much rather we wait until a proper international release until we effortpost the character.
A total has-been.
Alright then, but when the time comes, please allow me to effortpost the guy (who, I will say, sounds like the most unmitigatedly horrible villain in the anime since Grings Kodai.)
For now, though, I'd like to turn your attention to a lesser known Pokémon manga never released outside of Japan titled Phantom Thief Pokemon 7. The candidate I'm putting up for nomination is it's Big Bad, known simply as Io. I'm not sure if she appeared on this thread before or not, but I know there was never an in-depth coverage of her character and her crimes, so I'll be covering that now:
Who is Io? What has she done? - Io is an elite member of Team Galactic who serves as the main antagonist in the manga Phantom Thief Pokemon 7 It's implied from her uniform and name that she works under Commander Jupiter, one of Cyrus' Commanders. She's depicted as a cold-hearted, ruthless woman who treats others as her tools and won't hesitate to eliminate all who stand in her way. She makes her first appearance in silhouetted form giving orders to Team Galatic agent Lily to find and stop the main protagonist, Hiori AKA Pokémon 7, from getting in Team Galactic's way, remarking that it should be easy for her.
We are properly introduced to her when it's revealed that 5 years prior to the manga's story, Io had kidnapped Lily from her home when she was just five years old and playing hide-and-seek with her brother, and registered her into Team Galactic. The reason for this was because Lily had a powerful "aura" ability that enabled her to sense the energy and movements of Pokémon, which Io felt could be useful to her and her team. Io also provided Lily with a special cloak that hides her aura from others. And it turns out that Hiori is Lily's brother, but Lily has no memory of him or of even having been kidnapped in the first place due to Io conducting experiments with her mind and having her Mismagius routinely brainwash the girl, meaning that Lily's been put through Mind Rape on an almost daily basis.
When Lily recovers her memories and turns on Team Galactic, Io's Number Two battles her but is defeated. In response, Io has her Pokémon attack her Number Two, calling him worthless and stating that she'll eliminate Hiori and Lily herself as she leaves him at the Pokémon's mercy. Io then reveals her true objectives - she wants to locate the Legendary Pokémon Darkrai and after catching it, use it's Hypnosis ability to usurp control of Team Galactic and then, with all of the team's resources at her disposal, transmit Darkrai's powers all over the world in order to enslave the minds of people and Pokémon everywhere so they would become her subjects. This action could also ravage the entire planet and blanket the world in darkness due to Darkrai's other special abilities such as Dark Pulse, but Io doesn't care so long as she gets to reign supreme.
Hiori attempts to stop Io when she sets out to capture Darkrai, and in response she attempts to kill him with her Porygon-Z. Porygon-Z proves too powerful, and Io indicates that she had it forcibly enhanced so that it could better serve her as a weapon. As Hiori is brought down, Io captures Darkrai in a special Poke' Ball. As she declares her triumph, the Poke'Ball overloads and explodes, releasing Darkrai, who goes on a berserk rampage. Io attempts to stop Darkrai and force it into her servitude, ignoring Hiori's clear warning to not do this. In response, Darkrai uses Dark Void to put Io into a sleep coma and goes on to continue in it's destructive rampage that Io caused to happen in the first place. It was later revealed that the uncoscious Io and her troops were rescued by Rocco and his Gardevoir when the cave that they were in began collapsing. It's never shown if she's ever woken up from her coma or not, but we can assume that she would be incarcerated for her crimes regardless.
Are her actions heinous by the standards of the story? - Cyrus, the Omnicidal Maniac boss of Team Galactic in all other parts of the franchise, is never really alluded to in this manga, neither are his plans, so he's actually a non-factor in this particular work. As such, Io sets the heinous bar for this story, and her rap sheet includes kidnapping, recruiting, experimenting, and brainwashing of a child, being a Bad Boss to her Number Two guy, attempted homicide on children, forcibly enhancing her Pokémon's power so that she can use them as her tools, planning on betraying and usurping her own team and wanting to Take Over the World through Mind Control of the populace, and almost setting off the destruction of the planet despite warnings that this could happen, but not caring because she placed satisfying her own greed and power lust over the fate of the world and all living creatures in it.
Does she have any redeeming qualities? - None whatsoever. She treats her underlings badly and has no care for the girl she kidnapped and brainwashed, being perfectly willing to do away with her once she can no longer be controlled and useful to her.
Freudian Excuse or other mitigating factors? - No Freudian Excuse in sight - she's simply a power-hungry sociopath and Control Freak who wants to control the lives of others. She did attempt to stop Darkrai as it set off on it's destructive rampage, but this was only so that she could take it and get it under her control in order to carry out her World Domination plot.
Other considerations? - She's pretty much the Distaff Counterpart of the Iron Mask Marauder from the fourth Pokemon movie. Same aspirations to take over her team and then take over the world via use of a Legendary Pokémon's powers, same forcibly enhancing of Pokémon's strength and ferocity, and same ruthless attitude and total disregard for the lives of others.
Final Verdict? - It could go either way with her, honestly. I just wanted to put this out there to see what you guys think. I myself lean more towards due to the character's similarities to the Marauder, or heck, even to Talia Al Ghul from Batman Bad Blood with the nature of her plans and actions.
edited 24th Jul '16 6:47:30 PM by ANewMan
Yes to Io, and I'm fine with you effortposting the character (Jarvis, right?) when the time comes.
to Belarios and Io (that bit about kidnapping Lily and setting her against her brother reminds me of Darkonda).
A total has-been.
That's another villain she reminded me of! I knew I was forgetting something! 
Belarios and Io
Effortpost time. The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
comic is based on a sadly-cancelled video game
. The Nicolaitans are a group/Cult seeking the Seven Seals so as to release The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse and eventually Satan himself on Earth. Their leader, and my proposed candidate, is Belarios. I've seen links have his first name as Andrej, but that's not in the comic I don't think, so we're going with one name.
edited 24th Jul '16 12:52:44 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts