Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Well, kids, teenagers...definitely a younger audience than Berserk and ASOIAF/GOT either way!

After giving it some thought, I'll give Baby a for not meeting the heinous standard. And trying to 'take over' the universe/the world/whatever is standard villainy.

I'd say trying to take over the world/universe in of itself is not standard villain, depending on the lengths they'll go to achieve that goal. Still, on Baby for not being heinous enough.

Guess I'll just change my own vote on Baby to . I can't keep telling myself he'd count given what he actually does.

edited 10th Feb '16 12:25:08 PM by VeryMelon

Had a lot of fun with the Deadpool film today.

I am also confident Frances will qualify, but let's leave that for the obligatory fortnight or so.

edited 10th Feb '16 12:39:35 PM by PolarPhantom

I'll finalize Baby with one more .

Yeah, not taking the obvious chance makes Baby a .

I always thought Death Is Cheap played a big role in why Dragon Ball could still be considered a show for young adults or even younger people. Also, Rape Is a Special Kind of Evil plays a huge role in why the above mentioned series are considered hardcore dark by comparison.

Oh, not just rape. Let's not forget Ramsay's torture of Theon and Gregor's...well, everything (though to be fair, both DID have rape among their MANY crimes).

edited 10th Feb '16 1:58:36 PM by ACW

So, just for fun, here's what I think people consider the "baseline" CM evil and the exception evil.

The baseline is murder, attempted murder, torture, and rape.

The "exceptional" evil for people seems to be genocide, slavery, omnicide, and doing anything to a child.

Exceptional evil also includes stealing forty cakes.

In all seriousness, I would consider placing someone in an And I Must Scream Fate Worse Then Death to be exceptional evil, like sewing people mouth to anus, or turning little boys into donkeys.

I think I know the people you're referring too...

Well, the thing is, characters can be CMs even if they "only" commit the baseline acts; caveat is, it usually has to be several (like, say, multiple rapes or <attempted> murders); or, for murders, Cruel And Unusual.

edited 10th Feb '16 3:07:16 PM by ACW

So, the Grand High Witch was mentioned a couple pages ago. I was actually thinking of making a rewrite for her as well, to pronounce her deeds a bit more.

• The Witches: The Grand High Witch is the ruler of all witches, and the most malevolent of them all. Holding a hatred of all children, the Grand High Witch has spent decades teaching her followers ways to dispose of them. At her meeting with the witches of England, she wastes no time berating them for only getting rid of one child per week, and reveals a plan to wipe out every child in England. When one witch gives a shocked exclamation of how impossible that is, the Grand High Witch incinerates her, a practice she makes a habit of at every meeting she attends to cow the other witches into submission. The Grand High Witch's plan is to utilize a potion to transform every child in England into mice and trick their parents and teachers into killing them. She demonstrates by transforming one hapless boy into a mouse, and soon afterwards abducts the main character and does the same to him. When he enters her room to steal the potion, he encounters several frogs, and realizes that they were children that the Grand High Witch had transformed. She later makes plans to feed the children to seagulls. Among a Child Hater race, the Grand High Witch surpasses the other witches in sheer cruelty, and everyone who meets her, from the young hero, to his retired witch hunter grandmother, to her fellow witches, are absolutely terrified of her.

edited 10th Feb '16 4:22:13 PM by Clown-Face

I wouldn't really call doing anything to a child being exceptionally evil, at least not in today's media. There are a lot of shows where children are shown being abused or put in danger (even kids shows) especially if the hero is a child themselves.

Does anyone think Terumi Yuuki and Relius Clover will ever get redeeming qualities? Some characters (like even Litchi Fey Ling) are going further down the slippery slope and doing more amoral actions in Blaz Blue Chronophantasma and it makes me wonder if the two main Big Bads will either get worse or become the only characters able to be redeemed? I know it's a stretch since these two are extremely horrendous but if Orochimaru and Obito can be redeemed anything's possible. And did we ever find out what the true main antagonist of Blaz Blue is besides those two and Sayu and if they qualify?

I think what they mean is not necessarily killing the hero who is a child but an innocent civilian child getting raped by Alex De Large for example would be pretty bad.

edited 10th Feb '16 5:27:25 PM by Klavice

Pretty much. It seems you can make any action (slavery, rape, murder) worse by adding a child to it.

I think there is a possibility of Relius being redeemed since he is Affably Evil, a rather twisted Well Intentioned Extremist, and overall a lighter shade of black. Terumi on the hand is very likely gonna stay a irredeemable bastard.

How does teppei hojo cross the line? I get it, I get it, he raped his niece and uses her as furniture, that's pretty bad, but many others do so much worse, even shion herself does worse.

Baby from GT? Definitely a for me too - he honestly seemed like one of the more sympathetic DB Big Bads in comparison to the rest.

The characters who did "worse stuff" than Teppei were often under the influence of Hinamizawa Syndrome. Teppei committed all his low-scale, under resourced atrocities simply because he was an asshole.

edited 11th Feb '16 3:21:53 PM by ANewMan

Apropos of nothing, but so far, I'm not a fan of the new layout. I hate change.

to Frenic and Martel. The latter seems to have a redeeming quality, and neither of them seem heinous enough.

to Quinella.

I want to say yes to Baby (failing to do more with the Dragon Balls may be more short-sightedness than a lack of malevolence), but honestly can't. The Saiyans may have killed his people, but their species has already been reduced to an infinitesimally small fraction (Goku and Vegeta, neither of whom, participated in the genocide of Baby's people, are the only full-blooded Saiyans left). Killing what's left of them feels like little more than spite, and enslaving Earth is flat-out unnecessarily evil. But, compared to the likes of Cell or Frieza, Baby hardly stands out, so I'll have to say to Baby.

This might be a silly question for a thread and trope like this, but do you guys (and girls; I'm assuming not everyone in this thread is male) ever think that some of the CMs and potential CMs are too over the top? I'm watching Zoom and Vandal Savage, and scarcely a scene with them passes without them doing something horrible. I'm actually almost hoping for something to disqualify Zoom, just so the effort post doesn't have to be a mile long. And that's not even getting into approved CMs like The Mountain, Ramsay Snow, or the villain from "A Serbian Film" (read his entry a few minutes ago; absolutely sickening crimes). I know CMs are supposed to stand out, but Jesus, sometimes it's just too much!

edited 10th Feb '16 9:47:12 PM by DeCarta

Well, a Complete Monster is generally a reprehensible piece of work, hence why they're a monster; this is reflective through their deeds. The Joker wouldn't be the Joker if his jokes were lower-caliber villainy. What I will comment on, however, is when the over-the-topness of their deeds veers past "horrible" and into "hilarious." The worst-of-the-worst isn't always well written; you have villains like the Master who cannot be taken seriously in any regard, Heiter (who I still stand should not be here) who's crimes are (subjectively) so bizarrely disgusting and over-the-top it can easily veer into hilarious. Then there's the numerous laundry list of shlock-horror and Creepypasta/darkfic villains who are written to be this trope. In theory, they count, but they're just so unrealistically vile - and more often that not horribly written - that they are indeed abhorrent, but for different reasons.

A Complete Monster that can shock you with evil deeds whilst still remaining a believable and well-written character (I go to Amon Goeth and, to a lesser extent, Frollo for my prime examples of this) is actually a rather impressive feat in the world of character writing.

I'm also going to sympathize with your views on the layout; I'm worried about my vision already and the bizarre way everything seems to be laid out now is hurting it further.

edited 10th Feb '16 9:53:48 PM by Scraggle

Yeah, bizarrely over-the-top C Ms are indeed a thing. Hell, I've proposed rules to prevent the worst examples of "LOL I AM EDGY DEPRAVED MAN WATCH ME EAT THIS PUPPY ALIVE" type characters, which almost everybody supported.

Also, I like the new layout. The switch to a starker contrast actually helps my vision issues.

edited 10th Feb '16 10:26:10 PM by DemonDuckofDoom

"A Complete Monster that can shock you with evil deeds whilst still remaining a believable and well-written character (I go to Amon Goeth and, to a lesser extent, Frollo for my prime examples of this) is actually a rather impressive feat in the world of character writing."

If you don't mind, could you possibly elaborate on this? I'm very curious as to what you mean by that and I'd like to know more.

edited 10th Feb '16 10:42:44 PM by JayRomeo