During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I will give a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Teague, Rize, Cesaire, Dr. Ebola, Sedessa, Big Madam and the renegade versions of Cobra Commander and Dr. Mindbender.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Roger Stimple.
Question about Fei Wang, is there any Moral agency issues with him?
edited 1st Sep '15 9:11:33 PM by Overlord
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Based on what I red, he is created from Clow Reed's desires to resurrect Yuuko, there's no evidence or hints that he is Made of Evil, nor is born from the darkness in Clow's heart. So while the purpose of his existence is to revive Yuuko, his atrocities that he committed along with his manipulations are entirely of his own volition.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah, one of those "created, but became even more evil" characters, I'll him.
Renegades villains
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
We may want to give GI Joe its own page if the Renegades villains are approved, as we'll have those two, Garrison "Blitz" Krieger; the two film baddies; and Resolute!Commander. 6 monsters over 3 pages.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I've started Season 2 of Revenge and so far, no one is a CM, not even Conrad Grayson.
A slightly updated write up for Petrie:
- Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.:
- The Season 4 Fan fics: Brett Petrie is the last undercover HYDRA agent to blow his cover. A year after HYDRA’s exposure in infiltrating SHIELD, he comes out by slaughtering every member of his team and his supposed girlfriend on the spot without hesitation. He single-handedly perfected Arnim Zola’s work and actively took part in Bucky Barnes’ brainwashing into the Winter Soldier. He only counseled Coulson on rehabilitating Ward so that when the truth came out, it would mess with Coulson's mind and when Petrie blew his cover, it hit Coulson so hard, he abandoned his plans to integrate Ward back into the fold. While killing Andrew was on Grant Ward’s orders, Petrie’s brutal torture, disemboweling and castration of him was not authorized by Ward who was as equally disturbed as everyone else. He’d casually kill fellow agents who failed in missions and against Ward’s wishes, viciously tortured and murdered Lincoln with his own powers just for fun. He is revealed to have manipulated and used Ward to bait SHIELD and use his intel against them. He slits the throat of a random HYDRA agent just to get her communication device that Ward shut him out of and then reveals Ward as a pawn and nearly succeeds in having him killed. He carries out a mass attack against SHIELD that nearly cripples them. He kidnaps Audrey to bait Coulson out of hiding and expose him to the world as well (threatening not only to kill her, but it’s hinted he’ll rape her after too) and finally, attempts to go after Ward’s brother Thomas out of spite and bomb Washington D.C. with a nuclear weapon. Even though he serves HYDRA, it’s only for him to get off on the carnage he causes for it. Petrie’s a depraved sadist and represents the absolute worst of HYDRA.
Anybody have comments on what should go in and what not?
edited 2nd Sep '15 10:07:46 AM by futuremoviewriter
So this season of Scream is done, but I'm not sure about effort posting Ghostface, because our latest killer is pretty much a Roman Bridger stand in and has a total body count of eight, however it has been confirmed that there's going to be a season two, so we might get a more heinous villain and part of the cliffhanger was that Ghostface has an accomplice who's hasn't been caught.
I might effortpost later today.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
I propose to at least examine the The Creeper and The Beast' s cases: while their actions seems to be justified by the fact they're trying to survive, it's actually a case of Immortality Immorality which means they're trying to prolong their own life for their own selfish reasons like The Other Mother and The Crooked Man (both CM). They both appears to have a moral agency: they're both quite sadist with no empathy for their victims.
The Creeper not only eats their victim, first he toys with them for a while simply to provoke'em and then he tortures'em in a hideous way that only a deranged human serial killer would do. After that he uses their flesh as a tapestry for his lair. He's also willing to kill everyone unfortunate to see his face. And most of all seeing his frequent Slasher Smile it's clear he's also a sadist fuck. His only motive for living longer seems just to continue his reign of terror for unlimited time.
The Beast has turned many of children's souls into Edelwood trees and thus putting'em into an And I Must Scream status. He lies to the Woodsman that his daugther's soul is still alive so he can become his lantern bearer. The Woodsman for years cut pieces of Edelwood trees without having the slighest idea of what they're made of and probably her daughter was one of'em. He basically manipulated the Woodsman to kill hundred of children. He also tries to make Greg freeze to death and having Wirt watching him if he (Wirt) won't become his new lantern bearer. Even if Wirt accepts Greg's soul would suffer the same fate of the other children.
So basically in both cases hundred of innocent people die for satisfy not the survival of monstruos beings, but their massive egos
I think we should discuss'em for a while.
I'm willing to reconsider the Creeper as well, but the Beast is another matter because I haven't seen Over the Garden Wall, so I need to know if moral agency is an issue for the beast and that he's not just Made of Evil.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Nothing implies he is, honestly.
The Creeper I'm less sure of revisiting for now due to the cloudy origins of the character and the implication the wings and 'spine' are the actual Creeper.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Is Brett Petrie still alive? If so, is his arc over?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yes, he's dead. Technically it's over. It's not published yet. A couple stories in which his unsanctioned killings of Andrew and Lincoln are mentioned are completed though.
For the most part, the effort post (43611) on Petrie will tell you everything you need to know. It acts a bit like a draft. I asked about getting him voted on anyway two posts up from there: 43609.
edited 2nd Sep '15 10:16:51 AM by futuremoviewriter
We don't know if the creeper has moral agency since we don't know his origin. I don't see a problem with the beast though.
jjj
RIP Toriyama
Alright, for if a G.I. Joe subpage is ever created, how does this picture look for it?
PICTURED: Garrison "Blitz" Krieger torturing Sgt. Savage; Sergeant Savage and his Screaming Eagles
Also, I noticed Marvel Animation doesn't have an image. Is it possible to suggest one, or has the website decided against it?
edited 2nd Sep '15 12:40:03 PM by Ravok
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Well Now Dr. Ebola has two . I say for The G.I Joe villains, for Fei Wang. For the Tokyo Ghoul girls too.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Do you have a good example for Marvel? I looked some time ago and couldn't find any.
edited 2nd Sep '15 3:14:55 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
RIP Toriyama
Here are some I've managed to scrounge (?) up
PICTURE 1: Carnage draining two soldiers' life forces; Spider-Man: The Animated Series
PICTURE 2 : Ultron preparing to kill James Rogers, son of Captain America; Next Avengers Heroes Of Tomorrow
PICTURES 3, 4, and 5 (All one pic): Ultron murdering The Avengers via flashback; Next Avengers Heroes Of Tomorrow
PICTURES 6, 7, and 8 (All one pic): Nighthawk forcing Dr. Spectrum to blow up their home planet; Avengers Assemble
Any good?
edited 2nd Sep '15 4:08:47 PM by Ravok
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
3-5 or 6-8 might work.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
RIP Toriyama
Here's the "coding" for them both (Just remove the space before .PNG)
edited 2nd Sep '15 4:09:25 PM by Ravok
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll take them to the Image Picking Thread soon.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
RIP Toriyama
Eeexceellleennnttt (And thanks, BTW)
Anywho, does anybody else want to throw in on Renegades Cobra Commander and Mindbender before I start the write-ups?
edited 2nd Sep '15 4:21:35 PM by Ravok
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
@ST 89 From what work is the Crooked Man that you mentioned from? The only one I've heard of was from The Wolf Among Us and he's not a CM (surprisingly).
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Lizzid people!
He meant the one from The Book of Lost Things.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Pic 3-6 look really menacing, so yeah.
Going to give![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
to the last few characters Lightysnake has proposed, by the way.