Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#43877: Aug 31st 2015 at 8:45:18 AM

[tup] to Petrie

So that's five [tup] to Cesaire, so without further adieu.

  • Red Riding Hood: Cesaire is the werewolf who has been terrorizing the village his daughter Valerie lived in for years. While living as a seemingly normal member of the community, the wolf left the people alone due to animal sacrifices for the past twenty years, before deciding to find richer hunting grounds in the city. He planned to take his daughters with him, and turn them into werewolves too, but upon finding out that Luci wasn't his, he kills Luci in a fit of anger. He would later take his revenge on his wife's lover, Henry's father. He'd return as a wolf and kill off the knights sent to protect the village. Confronting Valerie as a wolf, he tries to get Valerie to leave with him, threatening to kill her friend Roxanne and massacre the village if she refuses. Later on, he goes on a rampage, during which he bites off Father Solomon's hand. The next day, he kills his mother and feeds and unwitting Valerie her remains as soup, before trying to bite her against her will, and attempting to kill her lover interest Peter.

edited 31st Aug '15 8:45:52 AM by Beast

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
ST89 Since: Feb, 2015
#43878: Aug 31st 2015 at 10:30:34 AM

Any more votes for Lily, Sgorr and my new SCP - 106 write up ?

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#43879: Aug 31st 2015 at 10:43:19 AM

Also for J.B. Allen: Does he love his daughter? He does give her "trophies" of his victims.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#43880: Aug 31st 2015 at 10:43:53 AM

6 for Petrie now. That's myself, Ravok, Overlord, Scraggle, Lightysnake and Beast. One or more?

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#43882: Aug 31st 2015 at 10:46:46 AM

Yes! That’s 7 [tup], 0 [tdown] for Petrie! Here’s a draft of his write up:

  • Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.:

    • The Season 4 Fan fics: Brett Petrie is the last undercover HYDRA agent to blow his cover. A year after HYDRA’s exposure in infiltrating SHIELD, he comes out by slaughtering every member of his team and his supposed girlfriend on the spot without hesitation. He single-handedly perfected Arnim Zola’s work and actively took part in Bucky Barnes’ brainwashing into the Winter Soldier. While killing Andrew was on Grant Ward’s orders, Petrie’s brutal torture, disemboweling and castration of him was not authorized by Ward who was as equally disturbed as everyone else. He’d casually kill fellow agents who failed in missions and against Ward’s wishes, viciously tortures and [[Family-Unfriendly Death murdered Lincoln with his own powers]] just for fun. He is revealed to have manipulated and used Ward to bait SHIELD and use his intel against them. He slits the throat of a random HYDRA agent just to get her communication device that Ward shut him out of and then reveals Ward as a pawn and nearly succeeds in having him killed. He carries out a mass attack against SHIELD that nearly cripples them. He kidnaps Audrey to bait Coulson out of hiding and expose him to the world as well (threatening not only to kill her, but it’s hinted he’ll rape her after too) and finally, attempts to go after Ward’s brother Thomas out of spite and bomb Washington D.C. with a nuclear weapon. Even though he serves HYDRA, it’s only for him to get off on the carnage he causes for it. Petrie’s a depraved sadist and represents the absolute worst of HYDRA.

It needs a bit of cleaning up. Could somebody help me with that please? Thanks.

edited 2nd Sep '15 10:14:24 AM by futuremoviewriter

Kookosbanaani Since: May, 2015
#43883: Aug 31st 2015 at 11:18:33 AM

OK, sorry for bringing this topic up again, but now that Gentarou Hongou (suggested by me) from Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors has been unanimously (7-0) declared as a CM, who is going to write down that entry? Since English is not my native language, the draft of the write-up can be a little clunky.

edited 31st Aug '15 11:23:24 AM by Kookosbanaani

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#43884: Aug 31st 2015 at 11:28:45 AM

[up][up] I'll do that with this weekend's batch.
[up] Ditto. If you'll write it up, I can edit it.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Kookosbanaani Since: May, 2015
#43885: Aug 31st 2015 at 12:01:38 PM

Pretty much a shorter version of my effort post a few pages before but at least it's something.

  • Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors: Gentarou Hongou, the CEO of Cradle Pharmaceutical is eventually revealed to be responsible for nearly every bad thing happening in the game. More commonly known for his codename Ace, Hongou first appears as a helpful and altruistic old man. Suffering from prosopagnosia, Hongou developed The First Nonary Game as a chance to see human faces again. In this cruel game, eighteen kidnapped children were forced to solve various puzzles with their counterparts in order to escape in time. After an undercover detective named Seven manages to rescue the remaining children, Hongou furiously chases them and manages to recapture young Akane. He then shoves Akane in an incinerator, where she has to solve a sudoku puzzle before a time limit reaches zero but is unable to do it, while Hongou leers sadistically from the door window. During the Second Nonary Game, Hongou murders three of his colleagues. First, he persuades Teruaki Kubota to enter door number five alone, not only for covering his tracks but also for the sake of testing whether the Second Nonary Game was a real deal or not and to obtain the highly useful number nine bracelet. Later, he shoves Nagisa Nijisaki behind door number three, believing him to be one the children from the First Nonary Game, faking a heroic sacrifice afterwards, when he willingly leaves behind so that the others wouldn't find "Snake's" corpse. In the Captain's Quarters, Hongou murders Kagechika Musashidou, believing that he is going to confess. After his true identity is revealed, Hongou kidnaps Lotus with a revolver and tries to escape with the required bracelets, taunting at the others how he is going to leave them behind to die. In the alternate Safe Ending Hongou murders Clover and later taunts at Snake, encouraging him to attack in revenge despite being blind. When Snake gets his hands on Hongou, he begs for his life. An utterly corrupted, delusional and heartless man, Hongou's Freudian Excuse is inexcusable compared to the sheer scale of his atrocities.

edited 31st Aug '15 1:18:34 PM by Kookosbanaani

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#43886: Aug 31st 2015 at 12:25:41 PM

[up] Okay, now THAT, that needs to be MASSIVELY cut, probably by about half or so (at least).

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#43887: Aug 31st 2015 at 12:26:18 PM

[up][up] That really needs to be cut down.

Any more votes for Sedessa?

edited 31st Aug '15 1:18:40 PM by Scraggle

Kookosbanaani Since: May, 2015
#43888: Aug 31st 2015 at 12:30:53 PM

[up][up] If it's not too much to ask, would you cut down most of it, please?

Edit: Already shortened most of the unnecessary sentences.

edited 31st Aug '15 12:40:16 PM by Kookosbanaani

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#43889: Aug 31st 2015 at 12:56:40 PM

I can do a write-up on Hongou later.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#43890: Aug 31st 2015 at 2:12:07 PM

I've sort of drafted all the stories with Petrie's arcs. Even though he was voted up unanimously, should we wait to add him until everything is published? Is it okay for him to be added as long as the rest of the stories do get published?

edited 31st Aug '15 3:33:40 PM by futuremoviewriter

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#43891: Aug 31st 2015 at 3:07:35 PM

Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors: Gentarou Hongou, alias "Ace", is the CEO of Cradle Pharmaceutical and Big Bad of the past and present day. Before the game proper, Hongou had eighteen children kidnapped and forced to solve various puzzles with their lives on the line in the hopes that one pair of children with develop the means to cure his prosopagnosia. After an undercover detective named Seven manages to rescue the remaining children, Hongou recaptures and shoves a young Akane in an incinerator where she has to solve a sudoku puzzle before she's burned alive.

That's all I've been able to do so far. It's a little tricky trying to shrink his actions down into a concise entry.

edited 31st Aug '15 3:08:55 PM by VeryMelon

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#43892: Aug 31st 2015 at 5:37:47 PM

Alright, as of this episode of RVB...Felix dies. So we are done with him.

Too be honest, he might not count because as horrible as he is, Hargrove far outranks him. Sure, Felix was content with killing his own men and did manipulate Locus (and that was out of fear), but Hargrove was content with killing an entire colony.

Also Hargrove appeared with his ship on Chorus. And he is not too happy...

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#43893: Aug 31st 2015 at 6:23:43 PM

[up] Aki Honda dies in one of the most horryfing ways ever (because Kitoh is insane). She still count.

edited 31st Aug '15 6:27:12 PM by KazuyaProta

Watch me destroying my country
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#43894: Aug 31st 2015 at 7:38:59 PM

I know we've voted him through, but anybody have any thoughts or commentary on Petrie and the things he's done?

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#43895: Aug 31st 2015 at 9:06:29 PM

I've removed Roger Stimple from the YMMV page for The Closer. Has anybody requested he be cut from the main TV subpage yet? Sometime in the next day or two I'll also check out the episode with Judd Whaley, who is also listed, to see if he actually counts.

EDIT: I also made a mistake earlier when Lightysnake asked me about Markos Christakis, the killer of 17. I conflated him with one of the villains on The Closer. He's actually from Season 3 of Major Crimes and is in an episode I haven't seen yet. I'm starting Season 3 tonight and will have an opinion on him sometime in the next few weeks.

edited 31st Aug '15 9:29:47 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#43896: Aug 31st 2015 at 11:21:13 PM

Ambar, my thoughts about Stimple were never answered (although, given the "redeeming" (I use that word VERY loosely) quality, it may be enough).
Also, you're our Criminal Minds person: What about J.B. Allen (body count; does he love his daughter?)?

edited 31st Aug '15 11:52:38 PM by ACW

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#43897: Aug 31st 2015 at 11:56:29 PM

[up]Your concerns amount to restating the facts of the case. Yes, he raped and killed three young girls. No, that does not make him heinous by the standards of the story, something I already explained in the original post.

Stimple killed 3 people. Wade Weller's total bodycount is 25, not counting the people he failed to kill. Markos Christakis killed 15, raped a 16th, and disfigured a 17th. Philip Stroh raped 5 women, then raped and murdered another 6, and targeted the judge, the police, and the witnesses. That's three villains whose crimes vastly overshadow Stimple. And that's just three, the list could go on.

And before you ask, no the fact that he killed children makes him nothing special. Zoran Antunovich butchered a town which of course, included children. The killer from the episode I just watched last night asphyxiated two kids to death in the back of his car, then stuffed them into suitcases and left them at the airport, and he's such a minor villain that I can't remember his name.

Throw in the fact that Stimple shows a few, tiny iotas of remorse—which would see him cut even if he had a much higher bodycount—and we cannot keep him.

I know nothing about the Criminal Minds example in question; haven't watched the show in years.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#43898: Sep 1st 2015 at 2:12:49 AM

[up] Got it. Would Zoran or Weller count?

  • Christakis: Is he the one who you said was trying to fulfill his mother's wishes?

edited 1st Sep '15 2:15:51 AM by ACW

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#43899: Sep 1st 2015 at 5:08:18 AM

I've been watching the 2011 Thundercats. I saw the last of Grune's episodes last night. It will take a little bit longer for me to see all of Mumm Ra's episodes though. I believe I should see all of Mumm Ra's episodes before discussing Grune due to the whole "relative heinous standard" thing.

jjj
Kookosbanaani Since: May, 2015
#43900: Sep 1st 2015 at 6:09:13 AM

OK, now I've shortened Hongou's entry for a decent amount.

edited 5th Sep '15 12:52:19 PM by Kookosbanaani


Total posts: 326,048
Top