Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Did we ever vote on Zanza (the evil god possessing Shulk) from Xenoblade and Konishi from The World Ends With You? I can see Zanza qualifying, but Konishi, I'm not so sure about. Most of what she does is similar to what Mr. G who will not be named does. It's enough to make her a Jerkass, but nothing more. Their entries could use a rewrite since both of them don't really explain what they do. They do, but it's very vague and could use a rewrite by someone who has played both games. I have no experience with Xenoblade, but I could probably rewrite Konishi if she qualifies. Here's what they look like now.

"Mitsuki Konishi is a ruthless aspiring tyrant who almost singlehandedly instills a sense of dread and urgency in an initially lighthearted story. She is comfortable with threatening the lives of innocent people, including children, in order to bait her adversaries. Specifically, after her minions "kill" Beat's kid sister Rhyme, she takes Rhyme's soul hostage, imprisoning her in a badge. She forces Beat to complete the week's missions, under the threat of erasing his sister's existence forever. When Beat completes these tasks and retrieves the badge, it proves to be a fake. Uzuki and Kariya, the Punch Clock Villains used unwittingly in this deception, are visibly disgusted at her cruelty. She is responsible for the only permanent death of a sympathetic character, "erasing" 777 - an Anti-Villain who was Forced Into Evil - for failing to defeat the heroes. When finally cornered, Konishi reveals her true motive: to overthrow the current Conductor - who, by contrast, is a Well-Intentioned Extremist - and gain unchecked power over the Underground plane. With her dying breath, she aims to inflict further suffering on Beat - who had infuriated her by refusing to play to her script - by insinuating that his sister never truly loved him and that his efforts were pointless."

"Zanza takes Jerkass Gods to the extreme. Originally a Mad Scientist named Klaus, Zanza became obsessed with creating his own world and becoming a God. When he succeeded, Zanza became the creator of Monado with a catch: it turns out Zanza, thought to be a benevolent Big Good is actually a sociopathic Manipulative Bastard and the Big Bad was a Well-Intentioned Extremist trying to stop him. Zanza kills him before revealing his intent: to destroy the world, devouring and destroying every living soul within it, so he can start it anew and preserve his godhood. Zanza is driven by ego and a complete lack of feeling, especially given his counterpart Mayneth is fully capable of understanding and protecting people."

Also I'm too lazy to check the other pages, but did we ever come to a decision on Exdeath? I could write down his crimes and we could vote on him.

Let me give it a try...

Exdeath, the main villain of Final Fantasy V is a Omnicidal Maniac similar to Kefka. He started off as a Sealed Evil in a Can sealed within a tree but broke free and started messing up the world, starting by stopping the wind and gathering the crystals, nearly killing the heroes each time. It's implied that he's killed each of his former foes and used their entrails to build his castle. In addition, when he gets the power of the void, he starts sending each of the areas in the game into the Void For the Evulz, including Bartz's hometown of Lix. While he is rather hammy, he's nonetheless presented as a serious threat and hopes to send everything into the void because he can.

We voted yes on the former two, but Exdeathw as voted down

I think I'm gonna agree with Morgenthaler on Unpublished Works.

As will I.

Can we get a new writeup of Rhyss?

Did we vote on Dickson (Zanza's top enforcer)? He's supportive of what Zanza does and pretty much sells the hero to Zanza.

I can sort of see why Konishi qualifies, reading that entry back a couple of times. I couldn't fathom why Mr. G was disqualified despite also attempting to kill a kid and yet Konishi was kept. The only reason I can think of is the kid in Mr. G's case was The Hero and Rhyme was an innocent bystander, and Konishi has more than one murder on her head. Makes sense, I guess.

Another character I'm wondering on if we voted on, is Shadar from Ni No Kuni. Apparently, he was a very dark WIE, but I'm not buying it. I've seen at least 95% of the game and I still don't buy him trying to save the world rather than destroy it.

Oh and before I forget, the drug dealer Corrupt Corporate Executive from Arthur that I brought up awhile back. Well guess what? I have more information on him. He purposely fed drug filled candy to kids with the intention of killing them. Had these kids remained on that drug filled candy, they would have died. It's even stated In Universe they would have died. The drugs nearly gave the kids cancer for goodness sake. Here's a small exa,ple of what he's like.

""To Eat or Not to Eat" features Supreme Dog, the CEO of the company that produces Big Boss Bars, who is actually the darkest antagonist to appear in the series thanks to the circumstances and Fridge Horror. His company produces candy bars that essentially get children hooked on them and, judging by his vehement refusal to eat one, contain pretty nasty stuff. Fortunately, he's arrested and the children are presumably brought back down to normal."

The show even more or less states the candy bars are in fact filled with hallucinogenic drugs. I'd say he's a consideration.

edited 17th Jun '14 8:45:57 PM by Klavice

I also agree on Unpublished Works.

No on Shadar. He has a complete change of heart after you beat him.

Yeah I haven't gotten that far yet. All I know is he's the dragon to the white witch and judging from what I've seen, she doesn't qualify either.

Every major character is sympathetic by the end of the game, if I recall correctly.

Also, I just watched the Arthur episode in question, and I don't know where you're getting the idea that Supreme Dog was trying to kill anyone. All the show says was that the candy was addictive. It's not even clear how addictive. And just because he wouldn't eat one doesn't mean that the candy was deadly. I don't think that we can say he counts by applying real-world logic to a kid's show and saying "if he got arrested for it, it must have been some like some horrible drug".

edited 17th Jun '14 9:17:14 PM by Camberf

Lorne Malvo from the [[Series: Fargo]] shold be considerd a complete monster. He murders at least tens of innocents with no regard to human life and has zero redeeming qualities.

From what I've seen he seems to only go after Asshole Victims, and a Freudian Excuse has at least been hinted at.

Yeah, Ni no Kuni has zero qualifiers. It's such an optimistic game and gives everyone some redeeming qualities.

As for the Arthur example...I'm not entirely sure a CM can qualify through only Fridge Horror.

Lorne I could possibly see counting. I mean, he straight up executed three innocent people in an elevator for no real reason.

edited 17th Jun '14 9:18:19 PM by Lightysnake

Lorne died tonight, yes?

Correctamundo.

I wouldn't put much stock in his excuse, honestly. He hints at it, but it's debatable if such a thing is true or no. Lorne is the Coen archetypical avatar of evil so common in their stories. Lorne is an incredible liar, whose motive is It Amused Me writ large. His entire existence is, when he's not murdering people as a pro, he's dicking with them for the lulz. He's so fascinated by weakness he wants to see how far people can bend before they break under his influence.

One of his worst moments is, to get close to a mark, he takes on a minister identity, gets engaged to a woman who loves him and 'befriends' his mark's brother...then he kills the mark, the brother and his fiancee and is nothing but amused.

edited 17th Jun '14 9:28:47 PM by Lightysnake

Yowza.

On a completely unrelated note, the entry for Emil Fouchon from Hard Target mentions how, when he discovered that the man he was hired to kill left a daughter behind, he beat the crap out of the man who hired him. Is that due to standards or because it meant that his victim left a witness/possible revenge seeker? If the former, he needs to go.

It's definitely not standards. The rule Fouchon has is "we target people with nobody, so nobody looks for our victims, now somebody's gonna poke their nose into this!"

Also, keep in mind Lorne was setting up that hit for six months. He kills way more people as well.

edited 17th Jun '14 9:35:16 PM by Lightysnake

Can a whole album from a artist count if it follows a specific theme or can only individual songs count? I've been looking into this fast rapper called Twisted Insane, whose album The Insane Asylum, has him doing some freaky things. Some lyrics for those who can't understand.

edited 17th Jun '14 11:28:05 PM by despoa

Albums can't count, but if the album tells a story, then the characters in that story can.

These are the single-entry items needing expansion:

• That mad psychiatrist from the Mission: Impossible episode "Mindbend", who works for The Syndicate and Mind Rapes petty crooks, brainwashing them into single-use hit men who kill themselves once they have killed their target.
• Rizzoli & Isles: Charles Hoyt is an unrepentant sociopathic Serial Killer who tortured and killed many people. In particular, he preys on Jane and threatens to rape Maura. In addition, much of his behavior is uncomfortably reminiscent of rape.
• Dr. Foster from Skins, Series 4, who tries to Mind Rape Effy and kills Freddie and tries to do the same to Cook. Even his "excuse" is just further evidence that he's a twisted, sick bastard: he's infatuated with Effy, his teenage patient.
• BOB from Twin Peaks. The rape and murder of Laura Palmer is just the tip of the iceberg, as he's a demonic entity who feeds on the fear and pain he inflicts through Demonic Possession of hapless people. Also doesn't help that he's a Complete Monster and an Eldritch Abomination rolled into one.

• Mission Impossible: Quite possibly, but needs more detail. According to this he's only a Psycho for Hire and turns State's Evidence against his benefactor.
• Rizzoli And Isles: Ditto
• Skins: I don't know the series, but Mind Rape and murder (and another attempted) on a teen show? I'll try to do some research, but a definite qualifier. Unless he's actually attracted and not in lust.
• Twin Peaks: Needs more detail, but may qualify if not Made of Evil.

edited 18th Jun '14 7:39:37 AM by ACW

From what I remember, Charles Hoyt from Rizzoli & Isles definitely counts. I'll do a more in-depth writeup for him later.

I'll try and do one for Dr. Foster this weekend. Ditto BOB (though he may be Made of Evil). Tempted to cut the Mission Impossible one.

I think Bob has zero issues. It's never hinted he lacks for agency

Care to do a better writeup?

Concerning unpublished works: I feel the example should stand on its own. If it clearly explains how the character is a Complete Monster by our standards it may as well stay unless/until the work is published and it can be reevaluated. Because if we get rid of it because WE cannot evaluate it in the work itself then by that logic unpublished works cannot have any tropes at all because nobody but the author can confirm any of them.

I mean, do not get me wrong, if I were in charge I would get rid of unpublished works completely for that very reason, but as long as it exists it seems off to just give one trope special treatment like that.

Honestly I doubt any of the examples are actually written well enough to qualify, but I think that would be a good policy to adopt if someone comes to us asking why we have deleted an example off of their unpublished work.

However, we can't check the entries for accuracy. What if one leaves out redeeming features, or the heinous standard? How do we know the events even happen if we can't check the work?